Learning View Help...

[monkonmonk]

Sorry, this trying to take it easy is not my usual driving style. I will try to be more diligent about my downshifts.

 

I have been focusing on avoiding boost as my main concern. I will reset and try again.

[iNVAR]

You shouldn't be driving like this anyway. In general, 3rd gear you *can* start at 2K and go WOT, but honestly, you should downshift anyway if you're trying to pass. Only reason not to downshift is laziness. I myself am guilty of doing this once in a while. People do logs from 2K in 3rd because it covers the RPM spectrum and because it generates enough load.

 

In 4th and 5th, I would not go WOT at below 2500...

[monkonmonk]

So, I drove the 180 miles home yesterday and saw no knock and no change in my IAM. The LV after my trip is attached.

 

I thought that the IAM was supposed to change pretty quickly after a reset. Or is that the issue you guys are having me investigate?

 

Also, I went out to my car at lunch today and was messing with a few of the measurable parameters (roughness, etc.) And I took a couple of logs. I noticed some FBKC recording some values so I thought I would post them up. This is just sitting in my parking space reving the engine a bit to get the numbers to change and saw this happening. Also, the motor seems exceptionally vibrational (I made that word up) around 2k rpm just sitting there.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

Any thought to rewriting my ECU with the last revision I received from my tuner originally??? Should I be getting an updated tune to deal with aging motor, or the like???

 

Thanks again.

romraiderlog_20130401_132546.csv

romraiderlog_20130401_134617.csv

[spec.B Dream]

IAM will sometimes change quickly, and sometimes not. I've had it where after days of driving IAM still wouldn't get back to 1. Continuous logging during that time showed no issues. Since then, I've set the starting IAM value to 1.0.

[iNVAR]

My IAM jumps back up to 1 fairly quickly, within minutes after a flash, but I have definitely read of others taking significantly longer.

 

Is it the latest revision already on your ECU? Then don't overwite it. Maps don't just mess themselves up. If the last one you flashed is the one you have, reflashing won't make a difference.

 

Drive some more, try to log the entire drive... I'm curious to see if there are any significant knock events during your driving to cause the IAM to stay or drop even more. Be patient. And don't gun it, or bog it down.

[monkonmonk]

Link from the log today...

 

I don't see anything crazy, but I am definitely on the learning curve.

 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0_vk8ELgmUPRXJnVUtCMUtUTWc/edit?usp=sharing

 

Thanks.

[iNVAR]

Well, your knock sum keeps incrementing but you're not registering any sort of FBKC or FLKC... Gotta figure out what's causing your KS to keep climbing. Nothing else loose around the knock sensor? Heat shields? Was the knock sensor ever removed and reinstalled?

[monkonmonk]

The knock sensor has never been removed or reinstalled. Like I said before the only thing I noticed was a deteriorated rubber band in the same area. Not sure how it was securing it before. Also, the connector for the knock sensor looks like it has a place to be mounted on like a tab of some sort, but I don't see anything down there. Any ideas?

 

I will try to take some pictures today and post them up in regards to the knock sensor area and engine bay in general and see if you guys see anything out of the ordinary.

 

Thanks.

[iNVAR]

your fuel trims are also still indicating a leak... I'm on mobile, can't be bothered to look back now doo dirty if it's been answered. is your intake stock? cleaned your maf sensor? any leak around the maf sensor?

[monkonmonk]

MAF has been cleaned and I am running the stock intake with an AVO filter. Was tuned with the AVO filter.

 

Also, i did some logging this morning and it seems as though most of the knock sum is increasing when leaving from a stop and the first few shifts. Whether or not it matters, I received no knock sum while the blue light was on indicating the engine was still cold for S# mode. An 18min drive of stop and go driving resulted in a knock sum of 31 with 6 of them coming from backing into a parking spot.

 

I will check again for intake leaks. I will take off the turbo inlet pipe today as well to investigate further as this is common, yes?

[iNVAR]

hang on, you have an auto? hrmmmm so it shouldn't be your shifting either then...sorry, it's hard to keep track of who has what when I'm writing in multiple threads lol

[monkonmonk]

No worries, man. I really appreciate the help, so I don't mind.

 

I have a 5MT.

[monkonmonk]

Okay. So, I have been working on some things to try and address some of the concerns that were still being suggested.

 

The big news is that IAM went to 1 and we have it logged!!! But, I will get to that in a minute.

 

So, I started to read around and investigate some things further. First off, was the knock sensor itself. Everyone seemed to indicate that the rapid increase of the knock sum was the reason for the IAM not going to 1. The wire was resting on the block which I had read could lead to problems and false knock sum. So, I proceeded to zip tie it up as tight as possible to other wiring as well as to ensure it was not touching the block.

 

Next on the list was the PCV valve as I had heard that it could cause some airflow issues and since I had not had great luck with the boost leak testing I thought this was worth a shot. I did not replace it, but removed it and cleaned it with some carb cleaner so that the ball moved quite freely after cleaning.

 

After both of those things, I decided to do some more boost leak testing. At very low pressures, I would hear a noise near the OEM BPV. It turns out that the paper gasket that I made seemed to be leaking on the "backside" under the tee connection. So, in reading I found that someone recommended that the OEM gasket is OK as long as you use the 10ft.-lbs torque that is stated. So, I did that.

 

I reset the ECU at this point to start over as I felt I had made some pretty big changes thus far and intended to fix the next item while at work.

 

Then, I noticed through some soapy water checking that the TMIC turbo connection was also leaking with the previous paper gasket I had from the Chevy 350.

 

So, at lunch I ran to grab something I read about; the Mr. Gasket 738G found at AutoZone in the performance section. After that things seemed like more of the same. Or so I thought...

 

But, I still think that there may be a leak coming from somewhere in the boost control solenoid or something that I can't quite find.

 

Tonight after switching out the gasket I drove to dinner with my wife logging the whole way. It seemed that most of the knock sums were increasing as I would leave a stop with what I would say are low level rpms. So, I decided to drive a little more aggressively and I noticed that the knock sums did not increase AS quickly, but they were still increasing. While I was complaining about the IAM not increasing and the knock sums still increasing, I stopped at a light and noticed the IAM had gone to one. There are a few other logs that are shorter that I tried to get on the throttle a bit more, but still noticed some knock being recorded, so I am not out of the woods yet.

 

Here is the log of the IAM change.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0_vk8ELgmUPWkR0eWY2SUhmdWc/edit?usp=sharing

 

A knock event at around 3k rpm

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0_vk8ELgmUPWkR0eWY2SUhmdWc/edit?usp=sharing

 

Another knock event

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0_vk8ELgmUPbnZuOGFNSXZIbUE/edit?usp=sharing

 

So, now that IAM is at 1. Where do I go from here?

 

Also, here is a quick learning view after all this activity.

 

 

Thanks again for fahr_side and iNVAR for all your help thus far!!!

[monkonmonk]

Drive in to work this morning update. It appears to me as though I am still having an issue with the knock sensor.

 

Does anyone have a clear install with photos or something to show how the wire is to be ran and secured?

 

Is there a way to test a knock sensor?

 

With the A box value higher, then the B box value lower and then the C box higher again, do I still have a leak?

 

Here is the cruising in with a separate file for a third gear pull limited by the speed limit of the road.

 

And another cruising file to finish the drive as well as a final LV as I parked.

 

Thoughts?

romraiderlog_20130404_082854_2.csv

romraiderlog_20130404_083530.csv

romraiderlog_20130404_083557.csv

[monkonmonk]

Was that too much info for one post???

[iNVAR]

Not sure what to make of things at the moment. Don't know why your fuel trims are off. Perhaps Infamous adjusted them, but I don't think he would for just the panel filter. Maybe swap filter back to a stock one. I use to have an AVO but went back to paper filter. I dunno.

[monkonmonk]

If they are all positive like that could it still mean I have an intake leak of some sort or an exhaust leak post turbo?

 

I attached my LV right after getting tuned by Infamous and my numbers were MUCH closer to zero. I will repost it here.

[monkonmonk]

So, I drove the car to cars and coffee this morning logging the whole way. The car drove fine and smooth. I noticed nothing out of the ordinary, but I did happen to catch something that I thought was interesting and don't know if it means anything.

 

See the attached log excerpt where it appears as though my wastegate opens and as it is closing it cause some fine learned knock correction. Why would this be? Is it okay?

romraiderlog_20130406_120500_2.csv

[iNVAR]

Negative, that is not new FLKC. That is OLD FLKC. You had some previously learned knock. You can tell if FLKC in your log is new or old based on the Knock Sum. If Knock Sum goes up at the same time you see FLKC, then this is a new knock event. If it doesn't go up (as is your case) you had learned knock from before, and it is simply showing you that it is pulling timing in the range it learned the knock in.

[monkonmonk]

So, I need to find the location in the logs where knock sum is increasing to say it is new? Otherwise, it will continue to pull timing in that location as it has "learned" to do so, right???

 

If that is the case I will go back through my logs and determine where it happened with the knock sum increase.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[iNVAR]

Yes, that's correct. FBKC will always cause Knock Sum to go up, so whenever you see FBKC, that is bad.

 

FLKC is only a current/new event when KS goes up.

 

In order to find out what happened, you have to go back to the originating event, like you said. Sometimes it sucks because the event happens and you weren't logging when it happened, so you can't tell what happened.

 

Eventually, the FLKC timing will slowly be added back in. Yours has already started to "unlearn" itself, or whatever you want to call it, because it's at -0.35 degrees. If it was staying or wasn't improving, it would be at -1.41 for most maps because a single knock mild event usually pulls that much. Stronger knocks will be more more severe than -1.41 (-2.80 is usual).

 

If you pull a LV right now, you should be able to see what your FLKC table looks like.

[monkonmonk]

Okay, I will try to summarize that morning's activities to see if I can make sense of what you are telling me iNVAR...

 

So, I have the LV as I started the morning with a time stamp of roughly 8am. That shows a clean table with all zeros.

 

I then have a LV after my drive to but before leaving cars and coffee taken at 11:23a.

 

then I have a log from 11:44a (line 513) where I think I noticed some FLKC that is new because the Knock Sum is also increasing, correct? This log might have showed some similar FLKC that turned into FBKC??? I don't think I am right here, just not sure what the switching of the columns means.

 

I also then found a place in the 11:56a (line 793) with FLKC.

 

Lastly, is my LV from this morning 4-9-13 at 8:53a. With the increasing value at 3000 rpm range to -2.10 from the -1.40 seen in the 3600rpm range, I feel as though I still have an issue. But, my A-D values still seem good, yes?

 

I have not been logging as much over the past two days b/c i was working on my Jeep and a tool broke and made for a nasty gash in the palm of my hand. Needless to say, dexterity has been increasingly limited.

 

What does the timing in the middle rpm ranges mean. It is almost as though the car is struggling switching from vacuum to boost or something being at/around the 3k rpm mark???

 

I think I am going to try to switch back to the paper filter even though I was tuned with the AVO panel filter.

 

Thanks again for the help. I'm trying.

romraiderlog_20130406_114451_2.csv

romraiderlog_20130406_115604_2.csv

[monkonmonk]

Switched the AVO panel filter back to the OEM paper filter and reset the ECU. I drove about 10 miles and my IAM went to 1 which was considerably quicker than last time as anyone following this thread can agree.

 

Lastly, I drove to work this morning and took another LV and it was also clean with numbers A-D lower than they have been. Seems as though this might be wrapped up.

 

I will continue to log and check LVs for a while to confirm.

 

Thanks again to everyone for their help, definitely could not have done it without the help of the forum.

 

Jason

[Silinc3r]

Ok so I am new to this tuning and am having trouble understanding how you are getting any info out of these LV snapshots. There is "to me" no data being displayed and the only values are the IAM and under the AFR. However if the car is off in the "ON" position how is something being diplayed? Search hasn't really helped at all. Also I got the VAGCOM in hopes of being able to use to see what codes I have and how the car is running but I am getting no where. Again search is a bust and I know I can't be the only one having trouble.

Hope I am not thread jacking and I am glad your issue got resolved.

[fahr_side]

If the cells in the FLKC table are all zero, that IS data... the best kind.