WaspGT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 KW Variant 2 Coilover for 2003-08 Subaru Legacy... from what I got from other threads these are actually track proven and are the best bang for your buck because KW offers free rebuilds for life to the original owner! -$1695.00 http://i.ebayimg.com/t/KW-Variant-2-Coilover-for-2003-08-Subaru-Legacy-BL-BP-15245006-/00/s/MzUxWDU5NA==/z/TrAAAOxyyF5ROOA1/$(KGrHqJ,!l!FD)cDTREcBROO!0rnMg~~60_3.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 PB Coilovers Full Suspension Dampening Kit for Street & Track... $967.00 http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Subaru-Legacy-BM-BR-BP-BL-BH-B4-PB-Coilovers-Suspension-Damper-Kit-/00/s/NzYxWDEwMjQ=/$(KGrHqZ,!lwE9JH4lRn1BPkU8-tMPQ~~60_12.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboLag23 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 KW Variant 2 Coilover for 2003-08 Subaru Legacy... from what I got from other threads these are actually track proven and are the best bang for your buck because KW offers free rebuilds for life to the original owner! -$1695.00 http://i.ebayimg.com/t/KW-Variant-2-Coilover-for-2003-08-Subaru-Legacy-BL-BP-15245006-/00/s/MzUxWDU5NA==/z/TrAAAOxyyF5ROOA1/$(KGrHqJ,!l!FD)cDTREcBROO!0rnMg~~60_3.JPG These are the winners in my book. I wouldn't cheap out on suspension components in any car I own. IMO, if you're gonna do it you should do it right. These are far better in terms of quality and performance than anything else on the list, and the high price is more than justified by this and the free rebuilds. It seems odd to say that the most expensive coilovers listed here are the best bargain, but IMHO that's exactly the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 This is is useful in that it is an anthology of mostly crappy coilovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 TEIN Basic Damper Coilover- Some people seem to really hate these on this site. I've had good luck with them. $899 Except one thing... You've never ridden TEIN's on a LGT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famaya26 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 This thread is missing the critical question as to why you need C/O? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Except one thing... You've never ridden TEIN's on a LGT. You're right, ive had them on an RX-7 and on a Honda Prelude. I did however visit another thread where a forum member had Basics on his LGT "For Years And Never Had A Problem". He doesn't drive on the track like you do, though. You have an actual "Race Car", I nearly shit myself when I read the Infamous build thread for your car today. I can't afford to do that, nor can the majority of people on this forum. Yes I know i'm missing all the fun, but i'm not going to racing the LGT on the track. I do like a low stance, and that's what this thread is for... the best possible avenue. As far as it goes now... all fingers still point to KW's. Even you use them whilst beating the shit out of your car on the track. If you have any other coilover suggestions, post some pics and literature. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 This thread is missing the critical question as to why you need C/O? Because every time I've used a Spring & Shock combo, I've never been able to get the right amount of "drop" to create the form/stance that I've wanted. That's my story... again i'm not trying to make this about me. Just a topic for discussion and experience, that's it. I deleted the other thread and moved this here to avoid more negativity, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Except one thing... You've never ridden TEIN's on a LGT. Max... have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 This thread is missing the critical question as to why you need C/O? ... I might have misunderstood you... did you mean why do "I" feel that I need them, or why should "anyone" in the audience need them as opposed to alternative suspension solutions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famaya26 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 ... I might have misunderstood you... did you mean why do "I" feel that I need them, or why should "anyone" in the audience need them as opposed to alternative suspension solutions? Yes, in general why get C/O as opposed to Shock/Spring Combo. Cost of ownership for C/O would also help fellow LGT owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Yes, in general why get C/O as opposed to Shock/Spring Combo. Cost of ownership for C/O would also help fellow LGT owners. That's an excellent point. We can also add some great reliable spring and shock combo's on here as well. Feel free to post some pics and prices for the Koni set up you chose:) I'll do my best to dig up some better info on the major differences and needs. Meanwhile if any veterans viewing this thread care to share some differences and experiences that'd be great, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famaya26 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Just an FYI Wasp, none of the "veteran" members are going to side with Cheap C/O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Here is an article that I found on Wiki... A coilover is an automobile suspension device. "Coilover" is short for "coil spring over strut". It consists of a shock absorber with a coil spring encircling it. The shock absorber and spring are assembled as a unit prior to installation, and are replaced as a unit when the shock absorber has leaked. This provides for optimal damping without torsional loads. Some coilovers allow adjustment of ride height and stiffness, using a simple threaded spring perch similar to a nut. More advanced adjustable coilover systems will use a threaded shock body, coupled with an adjustable lower mount for ride height adjustment, while an adjustment knob is used to adjust damping, commonly referred to as "stiffness." Spring rate also plays a role in stiffness. The coilover is a basic component of the MacPherson strut suspension system, which is distinguished from other arrangements by employing a particular design of anti-roll bar as a longitudinal constraint. This was the first widespread use of the coilover in automobile suspensions, but there are other designs. The word coilover should not be considered a synonym for the MacPherson strut arrangement. Coilovers should not be confused with struts or independently mounted shock absorbers. Coilover suspension systems have become a popular staple in the automotive aftermarket. Once limited to racing teams with the research and development budget to create performance parts, these suspension systems are now widely available from most online and retail aftermarket auto part merchants. There are 2 different types of coilovers, full coilovers and slip on coilovers. The full coilovers are matched up with a shock from the factory, while slip on coilovers are mostly just adjustible springs. Coilover Alternatives http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Strut.jpg/220px-Strut.jpg http://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.21wmf11/skins/common/images/magnify-clip.png Coil Over Alternative A coilover is not to be confused with the shock absorber and spring setup (strut); coilovers are totally independent and do not require extra parts e.g. bumpstops, ball Joints, spring cushions etc. Many people state that they are the same but this is a busted myth, hence the reason that high performance cars use independent coilovers to increase road grip, handling and comfort. On a lower budget, people will install a 'lowering kit' consisting of a spring that is of different measurement in length (mm) and fit aftermarket shock absorbers to increase comfort and handling on tighter corners where body roll may hinder performance. Coilovers come adjustable or a fixed length and normally bolt straight to a car instead of using tools (spring compressors) to fit a shock absorber and a spring to. While they are generally more expensive (up to 90% more), they still offer the greatest amount of comfort and handling compared to the earlier, strut-mounted type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Just an FYI Wasp, none of the "veteran" members are going to side with Cheap C/O. That's the point... I absolutely understand that, and I'm not asking them too. That's why this thread is labeled PROS & CONS:) I would like them to share their differences on what they believe is important, and also how the Spring and Shock combo compares to the C/O, route. I'm not asking them to support any of the Cheapies I threw up here. I've just posted what I've found... an commented on what I know, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Max... have you? I hardly see what difference it makes because stance setup. Its not as simple as pro's and con's. Its about appropriate setup for the purpose. KW, AST, Megan, ISC... doesnt matter if you only have 1cm travel and the dampers all the way hard to control the wheels from hitting the body. May as well get the cheap sh~t. Only two reasons to get coils. You either want stance and need the cheapest thing that you can get that will give you the look or you actually NEED coils and need to step up to something that will keep up with the car. Cheap coils won't unless setup specifically for track. Can BC be used for track? Sure but can you imagine what their custom valving for heavy springs makes them feel like on the road? ICK. I happen to personally know some very fast guys on some very stiff BCs. Saying that KW are not needed unless you are tracking your car is idiotic. Want your car to feel like a BMW? KWv2 + roll center kit and a 1.5 finger gap. Ive ridden in more than a few LGT now, a few setups under track conditions, not ran the cheap stuff on my car but am familliar with BC (best of the cheap IMO), ISC (IIRC), Megan and recently sold a set of TEIN Basics actually. Also ridden in Koni's with Epics, Swifts and Pinks with Bilsteins. Koni with Epics. If the other car was a LGT wagon and not a OBXT I would have ordered Koni's per the recent sale but they do not come with shafts long enough for the OBXT springs. BC's could be made custom for the OBXT ride height but what does it tell you that I would rather ride OEM springs and KYB-GR2? I have no desire to argue so here is your key: If lowest matters, go cheapest If lowest matters with flexability go bagged If performance matters KWv2 If you need more than that you are batsh!t and should consider a faster/better handling car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 I hardly see what difference it makes because stance setup. Its not as simple as pro's and con's. Its about appropriate setup for the purpose. KW, AST, Megan, ISC... doesnt matter if you only have 1cm travel and the dampers all the way hard to control the wheels from hitting the body. May as well get the cheap sh~t. Only two reasons to get coils. You either want stance and need the cheapest thing that you can get that will give you the look or you actually NEED coils and need to step up to something that will keep up with the car. Cheap coils won't unless setup specifically for track. Can BC be used for track? Sure but can you imagine what their custom valving for heavy springs makes them feel like on the road? ICK. I happen to personally know some very fast guys on some very stiff BCs. Saying that KW are not needed unless you are tracking your car is idiotic. Want your car to feel like a BMW? KWv2 + roll center kit and a 1.5 finger gap. Ive ridden in more than a few LGT now, a few setups under track conditions, not ran the cheap stuff on my car but am familliar with BC (best of the cheap IMO), ISC (IIRC), Megan and recently sold a set of TEIN Basics actually. Also ridden in Koni's with Epics, Swifts and Pinks with Bilsteins. Koni with Epics. If the other car was a LGT wagon and not a OBXT I would have ordered Koni's per the recent sale but they do not come with shafts long enough for the OBXT springs. BC's could be made custom for the OBXT ride height but what does it tell you that I would rather ride OEM springs and KYB-GR2? I have no desire to argue so here is your key: If lowest matters, go cheapest If lowest matters with flexability go bagged If performance matters KWv2 If you need more than that you are batsh!t and should consider a faster/better handling car. I had not seen this post before i pm'd you, but yes that's a pretty damn solid, answer. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Saying that KW are not needed unless you are tracking your car is idiotic. Want your car to feel like a BMW? KWv2 + roll center kit and a 1.5 finger gap. Why yes i would actually:lol: Thats an extremely appropriate example of a great factory suspension! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cone_Killer Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 IMO, the "low stance" isn't worth the ride on cheap coilovers and quality coilovers aren't worth wasting on the "low stance". You can get springs to go pretty low, if you know what to look for. Mine on RS*R springs. This is as low as I would ever go on a DD and I don't have to sacrafice my spine to do it. http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=144177&d=1362619983 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Still fighting with myself as to why TEIN, a brand I've known since I started building cars with my dad in the late 80's, early 90's, isn't respected here. Information that I've gotten from Vendor's and a couple of LGT forum veteran's is that their suspension is truly lacking on the track. I did a little research and found a couple of useful tid bits on TEIN and KW... KW is a high-end suspension manufacturing specialist. Their products are light years in front of some of their counterparts who care more about affordability than quality. KW sacrifices nothing at the cost of quality and usability. For the coilovers rebound adjustment can be performed with the kit installed via an adjustment spindle on the end of the piston rod. The rebound damping primarily, controls pitch and roll of the vehicle, especially in the low speed damping range which directly influences handling and comfort. Therefore the vehicle can be adjusted to the needs of the driver, making the ride variable from comfortable to sporty and stiff, both with improved road handling. All KW sports shock absorbers are developed and tuned specifically for their intended use. KW engineers use all the knowledge they have gained from suspension development and motorsport in order to find the perfect tuning in extensive road testing. The double-tube gas shock absorbers are generally equipped with hardened, chrome-plated piston rods, offering ideal protection against stone chips and corrosion. A new, innovative monoblock guide and seal package inccreases pressure resistance, reduces friction and hence promotes efficiency. The new, V-shaped shrink fit Teflon seals on the working pistons reduce to a minimum the losses due to friction, and guarantee an extremly temperature-resistant, durable shock absorber system. All KW sports shock absorbers are equipped with a rebound (shortened stroke), guaranteeing optimum stroke rations and ensuring that springs are pre-tensioned. A large proportion of the rear axle shock absorbers are equipped with spring plates that are adjustable by means of slots, enabling the height of the vehicle to be varied in 5 additional positions. In cooperation with the Technical University of Esslingen, KW products were subjected to quality testing in December of 2002 in the form of a salt spray durability test in accordance with DIN 50021 SS. The object of this testing was to compare corrosion resistance of the various systems under consideration of environmental influences such as salt water. During the test simulation of over 418 hours, the samples were inspected at regular intervals, whereby the corrosion resistance of piston rods and threaded struts were evaluated, as well as the adjustability of the aluminum spring collars. The results accoding to Esslingen: KW inox-line coilovers with stainless steel technology are clearly superior to galvanized models with regard to corrosion resistance, and in addition, ensure smooth operation even after 418 hours. In 2006 KW automotive established an ultra-modern hydraulic 7-post dyno test facility at its Fichtenberg location which simulates off-track running conditions in the laboratory. Worldwide there are only 15 units of the hydraulic 7-post rig in use, generally used by Formula 1 race teams for research and development purposes. The teams spend considerable time setting up the suspension of their cars for individual circuits, using the 7-post rig. KW automotive is enabled to offer the opportunity of simulating track conditions in the lab as well as their expertise to interested race teams and industry partners. This gives you an idea of how much engineering goes into KW products. TEIN offers ideal suspension systems for drivers who want quicker and better response to drive freely through turns and who are in pursuit of ultimate driving experience. It gives your vehicle the road holding which allows you to drive as you always imagined. Tein is a company that has helped create the very definition of the sport compact car aftermarket. All Tein products are made in Japan, and their brand name is legendary. On the scorching African continent in the most severe conditions, it was Yoshio Fujimoto (Toyota Celica GT-FOUR) who won the Safari Rally in 1995. He was the first Japanese ever to make such an accomplishment, and he did it in the most grueling rally in the world. In the prior year, he signed a contract with TTE (Toyota Team Europe) as their first Japanese driver. The Safari Rally was his second challenge. The name “Yoshio Fujimoto” left a great mark in the world history of motorsports. There aren’t many companies in the world who are run by world champions.http://www.tein.com/img/spacer.gifhttp://www.tein.com/img/spacer.gifhttp://www.tein.com/img/spacer.gifhttp://www.tein.com/img/spacer.gifhttp://www.tein.com/img/spacer.gifBefore TEIN made their official entry into U.S. market, Fujimoto spent 2 years performing local market research, and visited over 500 shops across the United States. Among them, there were only 2 shops that did not know TEIN. Despite the fact that Japanese manufacturers don't usually visit shops in U.S., and that all the visits were made without prior appointments, Fujimoto received a warm welcome. In fact one shop posted the message "Suddenly TEIN Came!" on their website, which showed the popularity of how well known TEIN brand was.http://www.tein.com/img/spacer.gif The company name TEIN comes from 2 initials of the words; ‘TE’CHNICAL ‘IN’NOVATION. It represents the company policy to produce the best products with the latest technology. With a change in times, from ‘evolution’ to further ‘revolution', TEIN products are reaching for the extremity. It’s been over 20 years since its establishment, but TEIN’s strong convictions have never changed. http://www.tein.com/img/spacer.gif In 2006, TEIN started to produce made-to-order products; “Specialized Damper”. Hand-made dampers exclusively tailored to individual customer preferences. Including vehicles for which mass-produced products are not available, and may never become available. TEIN specialists put all their technology and experience into each set of dampers. For customers, TEIN returns to its origin, which started from built-to-order suspension products. TEIN’s wish and promise is to provide the joy of driving to everyone in the cars in which they love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 IMO, the "low stance" isn't worth the ride on cheap coilovers and quality coilovers aren't worth wasting on the "low stance". You can get springs to go pretty low, if you know what to look for. Mine on RS*R springs. This is as low as I would ever go on a DD and I don't have to sacrafice my spine to do it. http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=144177&d=1362619983 Yeah, that actually looks really good to me, and I like the fact that you left a little meat on your tires too. I do like low, but I just can't do over sized wheels and 35's! Very nice profile, and I dig your VOLKS, nice choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Anyhow, to comment on what I posted earlier... Even in the writing you can tell the difference. KW offers technical information on their proven product performance (those 3 p's weren't intentional!). Tein's website seems to just tell a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cone_Killer Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Yeah, that actually looks really good to me, and I like the fact that you left a little meat on your tires too. I do like low, but I just can't do over sized wheels and 35's! Very nice profile, and I dig your VOLKS, nice choice! Thats another benefit of them, I can run 225/40's at that hight... on 18's... without fender work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Thats another benefit of them, I can run 225/40's at that hight... on 18's... without fender work. Those are 18"s ??? They look like 17"s:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaspGT Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 It's prob because the wheel wells are so frickin huge on the Legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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