Mblock66 Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 i am guessing they can do a compression check at the dealer? Do you know how much that costs to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero1 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 i am guessing they can do a compression check at the dealer? Do you know how much that costs to do? Usually run about $100... :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER DOWN Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I didn't order the parts last time they did all of the ordering and installing It don't matter. If Subaru requires replace of oil lines & banjo bolts. And the dealer didn't. The dealer should be paying the whole repair bill. I know they didn't pull the banjo filters on the last install when I specifically asked too. They said "they didn't know what I was referring to and it didn't need that". And that flushing the oil would get rid of anything anyway. From you post, it sound like the didn't. You need to find out if this is a Subaru requirement. Call or next time you talk to the SOA Rep. Ask them. Does Subaru requires new turbo oil feed lines & banjo filter bolts to keep a valid warranty for new replacement turbo. Mike Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 Well he is supposed to be calling me back either today or Wed with the "news" so I will ask him about that then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER DOWN Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Technical Service Bulletins I found. Info. is from AllData. NUMBER: 02-106-08R DATE: 06/02/09 APPLICABILITY: All Vehicles Equipped with Turbo SUBJECT: Turbocharger Mesh Filter Screen Introduction It is possible that the turbo oil supply mesh filter, which is located inside the banjo bolt that secures the turbocharger oil supply pipe to the back of the right side cylinder head, may become clogged thereby preventing oil supply to the turbo resulting in failure. Therefore it is required that this filter screen be checked for obstructions any time a Turbocharger is being replaced for a failure. If the mesh filter screen is found to be obstructed it should be cleaned or replaced. Obstructions could be sludge due to poor engine oil maintenance or harsh driving conditions. Further diagnosis may be required if significant amounts of sludge, metal, and/or other materials are found in the mesh filter screen. In any turbocharger replacement, sufficient oil pressure to the turbocharger should be verified. Please consult the service manual for the appropriate specification. ^ Note : The mesh filter screen is only available with a replacement banjo bolt. (P/N 14445AA090) Tightening torque: 29 Nm (3.0 kgf-m 21.4 ft-lb). ^ Note : Anytime the banjo bolt is removed or replaced, both copper washers must be replaced with new ones. ^ Make sure the mesh filter screen is installed in the proper direction; incorrect installation will prevent oil supply to the turbocharger. (Note direction, in picture to the right). ^ Do not confuse the turbocharger oil supply mesh filter screen with the Active Valve Control System (AVCS) union screw mesh filter screen. Refer to Service Bulletin 02-97-05, dated 10/06/05. Note : In addition, if the turbocharger is replaced, it is required that the oil pan be removed to inspect for sludge, metal and/or other materials. If found and not removed, catastrophic engine damage could occur including the failure of the replacement turbocharger. Oil supply/ returns lines, oil passages, etc should also be checked if questionable. Don't rule out arestricted oil filter. The materials found in the oil pan could also indicate the need for further diagnosis of other engine components. Engine Oil and Oil Filter Due to heat generated by the turbocharger and carbon deposits contained in exhaust gas, the oil in a turbocharged engine will deteriorate faster than the oil in a naturally aspirated engine. Therefore, all turbocharged vehicles are classified as "severe driving condition" vehicles and special care should be taken to use proper grade. The recommended oil and oil filter change interval for turbocharged vehicles is every 3,750 miles or four months, whichever comes first. Proper lubrication of the turbocharger requires high-quality engine oil. Some do not provide enough lubrication performance or durability when used in turbocharged engines. Using poor-quality oil or oil not designed for turbo engines may cause damage to the turbocharger and other engine components. Consequently, it is critical to follow Subaru vehicle owner¡Çs and service manuals for recommended oil grade and viscosity. The Subaru Genuine Oil Filter is the only filter that Subaru has tested to meet requirements for filtration and flow. Aftermarket oil filters may have different filtration performance and relief-valve opening pressure, which could affect filter and engine performance. Warranty Information Any turbocharger failure and/or damage that is a direct result of a lack of maintenance is not a matter for warranty. *Records of maintenance should always be confirmed. Disclaimer Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER DOWN Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Technical Service Bulletins I found. Info. is from AllData. NUMBER: 02-110-10R ISSUE DATE: 01/05/11 REVISED DATE: 07/25/11 APPLICABILITY: All Turbo Models SUBJECT INTRODUCTION The purpose of this bulletin is to announce a new product that is now available through the Subaru Genuine Chemical Program, "Subaru Engine Oil System Flush". The main cause of turbocharger failure is lack of lubrication due to insufficient maintenance. Currently, 2010MY and prior turbocharged engines require that the oil and filter be changed every 3,750 miles (6,000km) or 3-3/4 months. All 2011MY turbocharged engines require that the oil and filter be changed every 7,500 miles (12,000 km) or 7.5 months. Proper oil change maintenance is critical to the lubrication of engine components, especially in turbocharged engines. When engine oil maintenance is not performed at required intervals, oil gelling (sludge) and deposits caused by deterioration of the oil will clog oil passages, causing excessive wear from lack of lubrication, if the mesh filter screen located inside the banjo bolt that secures the turbocharger oil supply pipe to the back of the right cylinder head becomes clogged, the turbocharger will fail. In addition, this will also cause damage to the Active Valve Control System (AVCS). As a reference, refer to Service Bulletin 02-106-08R, Turbocharger Mesh Filter Screen. Synthetic Oil Subaru of America inc. recommends using synthetic motor oil in all turbo charged engines. When using synthetic oil, you must use oil of the same classification, viscosity and grade shown in this Owner's Manual, and must follow the oil and filter changing intervals shown in the maintenance schedule. Inadequate lubrication supplied to the turbocharger will cause damage to the turbine center shaft bearing. This will cause radial movement of the shaft permitting the compressor impellers to come in contact with the housing. In this example resulting from lack of lubrication the turbine shaft broke causing the turbine to shift off center making it nonfunctional. Before replacing a damaged turbocharger, review the customer's maintenance history. If there is evidence that the engine was not properly maintained, follow the Engine Oil System Flush instructions prior to replacing the turbocharger to avoid a secondary failure. ENGINE OIL SYSTEM FLUSH INSTRUCTIONS 1) Make sure the engine oil level is "FULL" 2) Start the engine and bring to operating temperature 3) Turn the engine OFF 4) Add Engine Oil System Flush to the engine oil 5) Start the engine and let idle for 20 minutes 6) Turn the engine OFF and drain the old engine oil and Engine Oil System Flush from the oil pan 7) Replace the engine oil filter with a Genuine Subaru Oil Filter 8) Refill the engine oil with the proper engine oil as recommended in the vehicle's owner manual Note: Remember to always replace the banjo bolt and mesh filter screen when replacing the turbocharger. Anytime the banjo bolt is removed or replaced, both copper washers must be replaced with new ones. Proper vehicle maintenance should be reviewed with the customer to avoid a recurring problem in the future. Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Marker Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 You could look at a Volvo S60 T6 AWD. Probably get one in the mid $40K's, they have some nuts, and AWD. We've got one of those... Great car, quick and very safe. The City Safety already saved my wife once. That alone is worth the price of admission. 2011 Volvo S60T6 & 2013 Volvo XC60T6 Polestar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee07 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 3500 miles is the oil change, not 7500 but 5-10k for a rebuild is still cheaper than a new car unless you want a used car under 10k, which is fine too, plenty of good used cars under 10k I would rebuild if it was a 5spd but that automatic transmission. New Lexus is350 awd or g37? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 i did a change about 3500 ago. Not 7500. I was just saying some cars can go that long nowadays. Maybe it was 4k ago tops. Thats my point, i didn't neglect the car or the maint scheduleand turbo = dead and I have been wanting a new car anyway. A rebuild on this car is so not worth it. everything goes wrong with it. im more concerned with getting this thing fixed properly so that I can trade it in on a new car. There is no reason to put 10k in a car only worth 7k on a good day. And between these two turbos if I have to pay for them it will be almost 5k in 1 year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strizzy Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Buy a Ford F150 Raptor. This. My bad luck build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted January 1, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 1, 2013 I thought 02+ STi UP's were cattless! 07 and up are catless. Misinformation here that needs to be clarified. 07+ up pipes on LGTs are catless, 05/06 have a cat from the factory. 02+ up pipes from any STI are catless and will fit any 4th gen LGT. Not all WRX up pipes are catless. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJr Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Usually run about $100... :/ My stealership charges $280 to change the plugs, I can't imagine them doing a compression test for $100. Thank god I found a local subbie shop that will do it for $80. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJr Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Usually run about $100... :/ Well he is supposed to be calling me back either today or Wed with the "news" so I will ask him about that then You should check your receipt for the turbo replacement, if oil lines and banjo weren't charged for and SOA say they are required with turbo replacement, no way they could prove they replaced them if not invoiced. Seems like the dealer would be SOL and liable for the total repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 Im looking at the receipt and it doesn't appear that they were invoiced for. It shows Turbo 1253 Union Screw and Filt 18.95 Gasket 27.95 Gasket 17.95 Nut 2.95 Flange Bolt 10.95 Gasket 24.95 Nut 3.95 Bolt 4.95 Gasket 1.95 Hose 13.95 Not sure if that last item "hose" is the oil line? Otherwise it is not listed specifically unless they are included in the turbo line item. Where are the exact subaru wordings that say if they they must be replaced when changing a turbo? I could totally use that since these were the only items that were specifically invoiced. I think you are really onto something JJr, thanks for posting that. It could be exactly what I am looking for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJr Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I sure hope so, but I think the union screw and Filt is considered the banjo bolt, not sure though. I can't believe they charged you $600+ for labor. Did they change the oil at the time of turbo install? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 Yes they replaced the oil at the time of service. They flushed it with like 10 quarts then filled it. They charge 100 / hour for labor. So I guess it was about 5 hours labor plus tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 oh i just googled it and you are right the union screw and filter is the banjo bolt. There goes that llol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510Finn Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 HAMMER DOWN, Have you been performing the Engine Oil System Flush as per below? I see that this dealer offers this service for $199 and includes new filter, and 5w30 synthetic oil. Honestly, just keeping up with regular oil changes would probably prevent the need to use this oil flush product, but I think it might be wise to use it if there is no clear indication of the regular oil changes having been performed and/or had a blown turbo. In the Socal Subies forum I found this posting, and it appears that this is around $30 (somewhat pricey). Here's the info: This great stuff and it's made by Subaru. Proper oil change maintenance is critical to the lubrication of engine components, especially in Turbo-charged vehicles, to maintain a healthy engine. When engine oil maintenance is not performed at the required intervals, oil gelling (sludge) and deposits caused by deterioration of the engine oil will clog oil passages. If this condition is not addressed, it will result in excessive wear and engine damage caused by lack of lubrication. Helps restore engine lubrication performance to critical engine parts Recommended for Turbo-charged engines and is excellent for all engine types Removes varnishing and other deposits Reduces the risk of blocked oil passages Helps prevent costly Turbo-charger and engine failures Helps remove oil deposits caused by inadequate engine maintenance Prevents engine oil breakdown Helps to extend engine life PART NUMBER SOA868V9290 Technical Service Bulletins I found. Info. is from AllData. NUMBER: 02-110-10R ISSUE DATE: 01/05/11 REVISED DATE: 07/25/11 APPLICABILITY: All Turbo Models SUBJECT INTRODUCTION The purpose of this bulletin is to announce a new product that is now available through the Subaru Genuine Chemical Program, "Subaru Engine Oil System Flush". The main cause of turbocharger failure is lack of lubrication due to insufficient maintenance. Currently, 2010MY and prior turbocharged engines require that the oil and filter be changed every 3,750 miles (6,000km) or 3-3/4 months. All 2011MY turbocharged engines require that the oil and filter be changed every 7,500 miles (12,000 km) or 7.5 months. Proper oil change maintenance is critical to the lubrication of engine components, especially in turbocharged engines. When engine oil maintenance is not performed at required intervals, oil gelling (sludge) and deposits caused by deterioration of the oil will clog oil passages, causing excessive wear from lack of lubrication, if the mesh filter screen located inside the banjo bolt that secures the turbocharger oil supply pipe to the back of the right cylinder head becomes clogged, the turbocharger will fail. In addition, this will also cause damage to the Active Valve Control System (AVCS). As a reference, refer to Service Bulletin 02-106-08R, Turbocharger Mesh Filter Screen. Synthetic Oil Subaru of America inc. recommends using synthetic motor oil in all turbo charged engines. When using synthetic oil, you must use oil of the same classification, viscosity and grade shown in this Owner's Manual, and must follow the oil and filter changing intervals shown in the maintenance schedule. Inadequate lubrication supplied to the turbocharger will cause damage to the turbine center shaft bearing. This will cause radial movement of the shaft permitting the compressor impellers to come in contact with the housing. In this example resulting from lack of lubrication the turbine shaft broke causing the turbine to shift off center making it nonfunctional. Before replacing a damaged turbocharger, review the customer's maintenance history. If there is evidence that the engine was not properly maintained, follow the Engine Oil System Flush instructions prior to replacing the turbocharger to avoid a secondary failure. ENGINE OIL SYSTEM FLUSH INSTRUCTIONS 1) Make sure the engine oil level is "FULL" 2) Start the engine and bring to operating temperature 3) Turn the engine OFF 4) Add Engine Oil System Flush to the engine oil 5) Start the engine and let idle for 20 minutes 6) Turn the engine OFF and drain the old engine oil and Engine Oil System Flush from the oil pan 7) Replace the engine oil filter with a Genuine Subaru Oil Filter 8) Refill the engine oil with the proper engine oil as recommended in the vehicle's owner manual Note: Remember to always replace the banjo bolt and mesh filter screen when replacing the turbocharger. Anytime the banjo bolt is removed or replaced, both copper washers must be replaced with new ones. Proper vehicle maintenance should be reviewed with the customer to avoid a recurring problem in the future. 08 Spec B details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510Finn Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Also, I think getting a magnetic drain plug for about $10 is good to check for engine wear for the non-aluminum parts such as cams, gears, bearings, etc. 08 Spec B details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 So I spoke with both the dealer and SOA today. Before SOA can even offer me any sort of compensation for the issue, they need to "tear down" the car to find out what the issue is. So I authorized this which they quoted me $550 for. Then I spoke with SOA who was super nice and explained the whole process to me. He said that the fact that they are even entertaining this case means that they will most likely extend some level of goodwill. If there is really no case at all he said they would have just told me that on the initial call. So that is good news The tear down is partly to see if they can find a cause of failure, i.e oil sludge, up pipe debris, etc. and if there is any further damage to the engine. So i assume the compression testing and such is in this fee. Once they have a final "verdict" they will call SOA back with their findings and give them a final estimate to fix. SOA will then (hopefully) offer some level of goodwill due to this issue. I have supplied SOA with some documentation on my 5w30 oill purchases to prove that I do infact do my own oil and I have purchased it so that may help my case. Also the prior turbo invoice that didn't show a line item for new oil lines which the service document says must be replaced. So we will see. keeping my fingers crossed that this all just gets taken care of. Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions. I think my best option is to just lease another car in the next few months and be rid of this mess. With little time and a purchase price budget of ~30k the short list will be 2013 GTI 2013 Accord Coupe V6 2013 Maxima 2013 Chevy Equinox V6 AWD These will afford me some level of enthusiest "fun" while still passing the wife test. And if the lease programs are decent it shouldn't cost me much over 36 months assuming I get about 7k for my LGT too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER DOWN Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 HAMMER DOWN, Have you been performing the Engine Oil System Flush as per below? I see that this dealer offers this service for $199 and includes new filter, and 5w30 synthetic oil. No, I never flush my motor & it's been sludge free for over 210k. All I was doing is giving the OP Technical Service Bulletins that stated; Always replace the banjo bolt and mesh filter screen when replacing the turbocharger. That is all. Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJr Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 So I spoke with both the dealer and SOA today. Before SOA can even offer me any sort of compensation for the issue, they need to "tear down" the car to find out what the issue is. So I authorized this which they quoted me $550 for. Then I spoke with SOA who was super nice and explained the whole process to me. He said that the fact that they are even entertaining this case means that they will most likely extend some level of goodwill. If there is really no case at all he said they would have just told me that on the initial call. So that is good news The tear down is partly to see if they can find a cause of failure, i.e oil sludge, up pipe debris, etc. and if there is any further damage to the engine. So i assume the compression testing and such is in this fee. Once they have a final "verdict" they will call SOA back with their findings and give them a final estimate to fix. SOA will then (hopefully) offer some level of goodwill due to this issue. I have supplied SOA with some documentation on my 5w30 oill purchases to prove that I do infact do my own oil and I have purchased it so that may help my case. Also the prior turbo invoice that didn't show a line item for new oil lines which the service document says must be replaced. So we will see. keeping my fingers crossed that this all just gets taken care of. Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions. I think my best option is to just lease another car in the next few months and be rid of this mess. With little time and a purchase price budget of ~30k the short list will be 2013 GTI 2013 Accord Coupe V6 2013 Maxima 2013 Chevy Equinox V6 AWD These will afford me some level of enthusiest "fun" while still passing the wife test. And if the lease programs are decent it shouldn't cost me much over 36 months assuming I get about 7k for my LGT too. I sure hope it all works out for you. It sounds like SOA is going to care of it and that IMO would be exceptional CS. Please let us know the outcome and what you end up leasing. GL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated Too sigmafour Posted January 3, 2013 I Donated Too Share Posted January 3, 2013 Really sounds hopeful you might get this sorted out. well done for seeing it through with SOA, you seem to have got very lucky to seemingly having them on your side at this point. I do think the missing oil line may have tipped things in your favor. I'm very surprised by all of this but wish you the best of luck at the end it gets completely sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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