lieutenantcolumbo Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 tick, tick, tick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJuan Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 My wife's balls are delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracheon Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 tick, tick, tick :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serb Legacy GT Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 I would have your brother and mechanic scope the engine again. You probably will find some piston damage PM specialB or look at thread "mangled a spark plug" there are pics on there of his scoped and you can see a broken ringland in the pics. I think he had to do it multiple times before he actually "saw" the damage We had a pretty good look at the pistons, even moved the pistons a bit. My plugs didn't look anything like those of specialB, and my pistons were not caked up as bad (the outer edges were all fairly clean of any soot). They were able to look at the cylinder walls of #4 and the honing looked great, like new. They weren't able to get it angled to look at the other walls. We'll see after they get a chance to drop everything and look at the turbo. A part of me actually wouldn't mind if it was the turbo because it would A) finally bring resolution and B) give me an excuse to get a new turbo and know I don't have to worry about it. tick, tick, tick LOL Kind of how I feel every time I have to add a quart. I guess as long as it has oil it should be fine in the very short term, but that 'tick tick tick' is definitely on my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracheon Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Keep us posted. I forgot to ask, or maybe I didn't notice in your posts... does this car have a post-turbo cat on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serb Legacy GT Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 Keep us posted. I forgot to ask, or maybe I didn't notice in your posts... does this car have a post-turbo cat on it? Thx, will definitely update findings. The exhaust is stock (car is stock)...stock up/dp, stock cbe exhaust. Previous owner welded in some type of resonator at the back of the cbe, just before the muffler area. It gives it a bit more of the boxer rumble sound, but I'm not fond of it and have a cbe waiting to go on. Don't want to do anything to the car until this issue is resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracheon Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 That's what I figured. Having the factory cat in place probably explains why you're not getting a whole lot of smoke. Subscribed for updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt06unlimited Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 If i had to make an educated guess, i would say look at the exhaust side of the turbo. its the only component that sees oil and combustion gasses but wont allow oil to be burned by the plugs. everything else that sees oil is internal in the engine, and will one way or another leak into the combustion chambers. i say turbo also because if its not properly taken care of, it will fail prematurely. they get extremely hot, and to my knowledge theres no after run system on these cars except the owner. if you beat on a turbo, or use it in moderate to high boost frequently then park it and shut the engine down, the oil literally cakes in the bearings of the turbo and burns away. its an easy problem to prevent, simply let the car run for 30 seconds or so after you park and let the turbo cool down a little. the turbo doesnt get hot enough to burn the base carbon molecules out of the oil, but it does get hot enough to burn all the liquid molecules. so instead of seeing smoke which is a gas and still his some moisture in it, you will spit out tiny chunks of dried up solid carbon which is probably being trapped by the elements in the catalytic converters. depending on wear inside the turbo, your consumption will be higher or lower. seems to me like since your consumption is so drastic, you should pull the intake boot and downpipe and try wiggling the shaft of the turbo. look for endplay and up/down play as well as any score marks from the compressor/turbine blades. not sure of the exact specs for the shaft play, but im sure someone on here knows. since you have access to a borescope, you might want to remove the oil feedline and take a peek inside the turbo. look for carbon deposits and evidence of black sooty kunga that sorta flakes apart. good luck hope this helped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripemeat Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Keep us posted. I forgot to ask, or maybe I didn't notice in your posts... does this car have a post-turbo cat on it? regardless of what burns the oil, smoke is produced, thus would show out of the exhaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serb Legacy GT Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 If i had to make an educated guess, i would say look at the exhaust side of the turbo. its the only component that sees oil and combustion gasses but wont allow oil to be burned by the plugs. everything else that sees oil is internal in the engine, and will one way or another leak into the combustion chambers. i say turbo also because if its not properly taken care of, it will fail prematurely. they get extremely hot, and to my knowledge theres no after run system on these cars except the owner. if you beat on a turbo, or use it in moderate to high boost frequently then park it and shut the engine down, the oil literally cakes in the bearings of the turbo and burns away. its an easy problem to prevent, simply let the car run for 30 seconds or so after you park and let the turbo cool down a little. the turbo doesnt get hot enough to burn the base carbon molecules out of the oil, but it does get hot enough to burn all the liquid molecules. so instead of seeing smoke which is a gas and still his some moisture in it, you will spit out tiny chunks of dried up solid carbon which is probably being trapped by the elements in the catalytic converters. depending on wear inside the turbo, your consumption will be higher or lower. seems to me like since your consumption is so drastic, you should pull the intake boot and downpipe and try wiggling the shaft of the turbo. look for endplay and up/down play as well as any score marks from the compressor/turbine blades. not sure of the exact specs for the shaft play, but im sure someone on here knows. since you have access to a borescope, you might want to remove the oil feedline and take a peek inside the turbo. look for carbon deposits and evidence of black sooty kunga that sorta flakes apart. good luck hope this helped! Interestingly enough, when I first bought the car I noticed the exhaust did spit out a bunch of soot over the course of a week or two before it completely stopped. I didn't notice it right away since I back the car into it's spot (common garage parking inside our condo building). When pulling into the garage one day I happened to look towards my spot and saw 2 dark soot circles and when I backed in, they nicely matched up to the exhaust. The right side was a bit heavier. I figured it to be heavy carbon deposit, and I was also thinking the previous owner was using some crap gas and that the better gas I'm using is cleaning out some of the deposits. I use shell 93 octane only, and I ran some techron cleaner through a couple tanks and that has not happened since. I cleaned it off and monitored the wall, but did not see it get sooty again. At this time I was not religiously monitoring my oil level since I wasn't aware of the oil consumption issue awaiting me. With your post, now I'm thinking that may not have been from cheap gas. Considering that I only started the car and had it run for say 7-8 seconds before pulling out, that built up pretty good. As for beating on the car and then not allowing proper cooling...I can't say how it was treated by previous owners. I'm positive this car was modified at some point because of the little resonator mod in the exhaust, and it looks like there was something in the hose from the intake to the throttle body (it was removed and then the hole closed to where you can't tell at quick glance). I do drive it hard, like leaving a light quickly and running out some gears, or if the highway is clear downshift to 3rd and run it a little, but I do not abuse it by launching the car or slam into gears. Just some spirited fun, but really most of the time it's just normal everyday driving. I have never beaten it, or driven it hard into boost, then parked it and immediately shut it off. Usually by the time I coast into wherever I'm going it should have easily cooled down...plus, this from msprank of infamous says that the cooling is not a big issue on our cars: It is not necessary to perform a “cool down/idling” procedure on Subaru WRX/STi/LGT turbo models, as was recommended with past turbo models. The current 2.0/2.5 liter turbo engine has a far greater cooling capacity and, coupled with technology advances, makes this practice no longer necessary. This explains why information about a cool down is not included in the Owner’s Manuals. The heat contained in the turbocharger begins to vaporize the coolant at the turbocharger after the engine is stopped. This hot vapor then enters the coolant reservoir tank, which is the highest point of the coolant system. At the same time the vapor exits the turbocharger, coolant supplied from the right bank cylinder head flows into the turbo. This action reduces the turbocharger temperature. This process will continue until the vaporizing action in the turbocharger has stopped or cooled down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripemeat Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 that's correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER DOWN Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Now I'm afraid to look at my turbo, it's still the OEM after 118k miles. tick, tick, tick :spin: Almost 210k on original VF-40 & motor. F1inspiredLGT turbo is just getting broken in:spin: Mike Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJuan Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Damn you, you lucky dog. My wife's balls are delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lieutenantcolumbo Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 :spin: Almost 210k on original VF-40 & motor. F1inspiredLGT turbo is just getting broken in:spin: Mike Yeah, you even have max capacity beat by a long shot. Don't you also have that fancy double oil filter set up though too, iirc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER DOWN Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yeah, you even have max capacity beat by a long shot. Don't you also have that fancy double oil filter set up though too, iirc? Yes http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/get-your-oil-filtration-down-2-microns-81741.html Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 c-lo has over 21X,000 miles on his engine but has been through a few turbo's. There's really not much on my wagon that hasn't been replaced, so I really can't compete with Mike. I'm just seeing how far my EJ257 is going to make it before #4 piston goes. I'll be over 10,000 miles tonight on the drive back to VT. Here's c-lo's sig, 213k miles - Stock engine/minor suspension upgrades/original shocks/4 passenger side wheel bearings/3 clutches/1 radiator/3 turbos-current vf40 rebuild 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serb Legacy GT Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas! My brother and his partner at shop were able to further look into my car today. It turns out it's the pistons (ringland and/or rings). They pulled off the dp to look at the turbo and saw no leaks, so turbo seals were out. There is shaft play on the turbo so it needs to be replaced. They continued on by pulling the left hand exhaust manifold so they can borescope up to the valves to take a look (#2 and #4). The exhaust valves were caked with white crud, there was quite a bit of it, with #4 looking even worse than #2. With it being white like that, the oil was being burned up and that's why I wasn't getting the smoke out of the exhaust. So we now have our culprit! Without actually pulling the pistons we won't be able to see if it's the ringland, rings, or both, but the problem is now known. Amazing that the compression was as good as it was when we tested it. So it looks like a new short block and new turbo, as well as cleaning and refinishing the head are going to be in the works. We notified my warranty company today, and they will be coming out to take a look (lol, they want to send an inspector to verify since it's going to be $$$). At this point I'm going to add an Invidia up, CNT catted dp, PW TMIC, DW 65c fuel pump, and the turbo replacement will be the BNR 16G. I already have a Stromung TBE sitting at home. All of that along with a new short block and I should have many reliable miles ahead of me as I don't plan on abusing my car like the idiots before me obviously did. This is all quite a bit of work for a car that I bought with 60k miles on it. Since buying the car, and in less than 3k miles, I will have done a new clutch, rebuilt trans, new engine, new turbo! I may upgrade my clutch to one from southbend since I'm gonna go basically stage 2.5 (I just had a new one put in 3k miles ago so still thinking about that). Not to make this sound like an oxymoron, but my goal with all the upgrades will be to have as much reliability as possible. No big boost numbers or anything like that, I would think 16.5 psi-18 psi should be a safe number which should allow for reliability, yet get me some decent power with a 16G. Tuning wise, I would really like to get it done locally and my understanding is 6 Star Motorsports here in Schaumburg, IL is a good place to go. P&L has too many negative reviews and concerns me. The infamous tune is hugely tempting and I highly regard infamous and their service (sold me my brake package and PCV valve), but I don't have a Cobb AP, and own a Macbook so it would be a bit of a hassle dealing with the files back and forth. It seems like a local dyno tune would be ideal and I have read good things about 6 Star. One other note, there was some 'liquid' on on the piston when we looked with the borescope last week, but it was attributed to possible fuel during the compression check. That maybe the injectors fired a bit and it was just a bit of unburned fuel. Looking again today with the borescope, it was there again so it's actually oil. It looked clear enough (I looked too) that you could see right through it, but it was clear because the oil was fairly clean. So, everyone, PRAY with me that the warranty company approves all of this. It's very frustrating right now because I've only put 3k miles on the car and this has all come up, but then again I will have basically been overhauled when all is said and done! And it'll have a bit more juice, AND it should hopefully run me to 200k miles once finished. I currently have 63k miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPeC.B_MaZTer Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 you need new piston rings and int/exh valvle oil seals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serb Legacy GT Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 you need new piston rings and int/exh valvle oil seals. Yeah, we'll see the extent of it, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a ring land failure. Right now we're trying to see if we can get the warranty company to agree to a new short block which at this point would be ideal. I would think new int/exh seals as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripemeat Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 valve seals are something that does not typically pose a problem on these engines. though, being a 2005 with 63k miles, one would think if the car has sit for an extended period of time...that wouldn't be good for any seals really.... oil control rings can cause oil consumption, but your compression rings could be fine. now there is a slim chance that the oil control rings oil ports were clogged at one point causing increased wear on the rings thus now your consumption issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serb Legacy GT Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 valve seals are something that does not typically pose a problem on these engines. though, being a 2005 with 63k miles, one would think if the car has sit for an extended period of time...that wouldn't be good for any seals really.... oil control rings can cause oil consumption, but your compression rings could be fine. now there is a slim chance that the oil control rings oil ports were clogged at one point causing increased wear on the rings thus now your consumption issue. I guess we'll see soon enough. Fingers are crossed that the warranty company gives the ok and pays this all out so this can get done, they should be sending the inspector out Monday. My big hope is that they will cover for a new short block and turbo. As for the low mileage, according to the previous owner he daily drove it, just didn't have far to drive so the mileage stayed low. I myself drive about 10k miles per year total, with around 3-4k with my other car, so the LGT will end up having lower than normal mileage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serb Legacy GT Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 The engine was pulled out of the car today, and my brother just informed me that they pulled out the #4 piston and it's a broken ring land...it also scored the cylinder wall. The warranty company had an inspector come out but they wanted to see how the pistons looked. This should hopefully be enough to get a new short block covered. I'll post some pics when I get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Another #4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serb Legacy GT Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Tomorrow when they look at #2, they expect it to have the same thing. They suspect #1 and #3 are fine. It's amazing though that the engine had a broken ring land in #2 and #4 and drove as well as it did and had the compression numbers that it did. As for the turbo, it looks like the warranty company will not cover saying it did not fail. There is some shaft play on it, I know Subaru allows for some, but to be honest at this point I would rather not put it back in. If they won't cover it, I'll look into replacing it anyway. I think part of the problem with my particular car is that the previous owner(s) did not properly take care of it at all. Who knows what possible mods were there, and what kind of tune it had. I would guess they probably started the car and within a few minutes drove it hard without letting it properly warm up. I'm hoping that with some basic proper care, and the fact that I'll end up with an infamous tune with the up/dp/exh/TMIC it should hopefully last. I also want to get the STi gauge pack so I can monitor oil temp, pressure, and boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serb Legacy GT Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Some pics of the damage...... PISTON #4 http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z70/jetmech_ord/EJ255/IMG_2312_zpsa2150c03.jpg http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z70/jetmech_ord/EJ255/IMG_2314_zpsd78f368c.jpg PISTON #2 http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z70/jetmech_ord/EJ255/IMG_2311_zpsb9eb7dff.jpg http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z70/jetmech_ord/EJ255/IMG_2315_zps1b1dd6fd.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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