OBXT w/LGT Struts and OB Springs?

[Sideways the Seven]

+1.

 

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[Sideways the Seven]

OP, here's my car on the LGT setup (sorry for the crappy cell pic). It's still not too low and the ride quality is still good. I think I paid $120 for the parts including shipping.

 

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r268/No_Show/Subie/IMG_20121124_140104.jpg

 

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[Oregon OBXT]

NP. I meant struts but, yes, you're going to want shorter bumpstops or going to need to trim the OB ones as a quick-fix.

 

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Was definitely going to go with new shocks/struts. My set is completely blown (105k on car). If I can source LGT wagon springs, I'll go with KYB's - 05 for the front and 04 for the rear.

 

Anyone have suggestions on what brand is best for top hat replacement? OEM? KYB? or...?

 

Also, as long as I have it apart, might as well press in some new bushings. Any preference here?

[Oregon OBXT]

OP, here's my car on the LGT setup (sorry for the crappy cell pic). It's still not too low and the ride quality is still good. I think I paid $120 for the parts including shipping.

 

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r268/No_Show/Subie/IMG_20121124_140104.jpg

 

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Looks great! Rear might be a little low, but hard to tell with it being on the sloped driveway apron.

[Sideways the Seven]

Thanks! Its the driveway because it actually has a slight rake. I need to go ahead and trim the stops

 

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[ktmrider]

Thanks KTM.

 

Starting with you last point, I don't disagree with you on 'just getting a LGT' statement. If one didn't own an OBXT a clean sheet LGT would be the way to start. In my case I already have an OBXT and have put $ into it due to a bad turbo. So rather than sell / re-buy I figure I'll just stick with a known quantity and build on what I have. I'm not looking to make it a trackable vehicle, just mod a little from what I have. I have seen some nice, tastefully modded OBXT's here and the uniqueness does add to the look IMO.

 

I have also read and posted on the subaruoutback.org forum. Good stuff there too, but no solution for what I'm looking to do. The only solid solutions that are well documented are coilovers or LGT transplants. The coils are spending and impact the ride quality, and a true LGT transplant lowers the OBXT more than I desire.

 

That said, I'm most likely going to try and source the 04 Eibach springs and pair them with OB KYB struts and see where that gets me. Hopefully the 04 springs will mate with the 05 perches and give me the slight lowering that I'm looking for.

I hear ya on using what you have already. I bought the OBXT after losing my LGT to an accident however did not research about the suspension differences prior. Got hugely lucky on the BTS setup and can't say enough good about it. I've mentioned this in other threads, would go Bilstein and big spacer route as the next alternative.

 

On the overall idea of lowering the vehicle via springs I don't think you get into a "unique" situation with the OBXT. The root cause of our handling ills IMO is the poorly dampened rear shock options coupled with it being a butt-heavy wagon. Putting LGT wagon springs on crappy dampeners will just accelerate the already short life of the shock.

 

If you want a chance to try some coilovers I'd be willing to ship my Megan setup to you. They have all new inserts so it'd be almost like trying new bits. Downside is I'm traveling in Japan until 12/22 so I'd have to wait til then if interested.

[Sideways the Seven]

Speaking of LGT vs OBXT, I like the flares on the OB. They look better with an aggressive wheel/tire setup IMO.

 

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[Oregon OBXT]

KTM - Wow, thanks for the offer! I may just take you up on that at some point. I've found a set of LGT wagon springs from another member here that are being shipped up from Cali as we speak. I'm going to be putting ~ $1k into the vehicle here shortly (tbelt, water pump, radiator, hoses, struts, bushings, etc) and that's after ~ $2k two month's ago no new turbo, OCV's, etc. So budget is going to be the key for a while! On the plus side, she pushed 125-128 PSIG on a cold compression check after sitting for about 3 weeks so I'm glad to see that I've got good 'bones' to build upon. Oh, and need to get a tune on here shortly too...

 

I figure I'll run the KYB (05/04) + LGT springs for a while and probably add sways here shortly. Depending upon the look/ride I'll decide where to go from there.

 

Any advice regarding strut tops? Keep the OEM? Stock replacement? KYB?

[Oregon OBXT]

Speaking of LGT vs OBXT, I like the flares on the OB. They look better with an aggressive wheel/tire setup IMO.

 

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I agree. I just like the OB look... except for the fender gap. About 1.5" will be perfect. And I usually hate the look of vehicles with plastic. Most of them just look like 90's Pontiacs. But the OB was a rare, well-executed style.

[Nightmaresmk]

Looking at the springs would 00-04 outback springs plus blistein HD's be an idea.

[Oregon OBXT]

Looking at the springs would 00-04 outback springs plus blistein HD's be an idea.

 

I don't know the delta in spring height between the 04 OB and the 05. I'm pretty sure the LGT 05 springs will be a ~ 1.5" drop from the OBXT springs which is what I'm looking for and it will retain the OB struts for tire/wheel clearance.

 

Is there an Bilstein product for the OB or is it an LGT strut that's adapted? Anyone have a link? I've not yet ordered my struts so if there's a better option I'm all ears.

[sashadg1]

You all doing this may want to consider wheel spacers to get a wider stance and more aggressive look while utilizing those fender flares. I have even considered getting those fender flares for my LGT. However, I would need to get front and rear bumper pieces as well as they are blended into each other. too much work... any pics of lowered OBXT's with rims?

[Oregon OBXT]

You all doing this may want to consider wheel spacers to get a wider stance and more aggressive look while utilizing those fender flares. I have even considered getting those fender flares for my LGT. However, I would need to get front and rear bumper pieces as well as they are blended into each other. too much work... any pics of lowered OBXT's with rims?

 

Yep, that's on the list too. Probably Rota wheels + spacers eventually. Need to be a little careful about the width or we're going to need to roll the fender lip with the LGT springs.

 

BTW, Thanks for the springs!

[Nightmaresmk]

Our arches actually have more meat on them then a legacy they are not as useful as people think.

As for the struts and springs the reason i said 2000-2004 is because they are shorter than 05+. The outback struts are the week point. I want to loose height through the struts not springs. Blisteins are the point to get too. you loose 2.5" when you use legacy strut spring combo.

Me i only want to loose 1-1.5" but i want to use the blistein hds. which means i need more control over the spring.

[ktmrider]

Is there an Bilstein product for the OB or is it an LGT strut that's adapted? Anyone have a link? I've not yet ordered my struts so if there's a better option I'm all ears.

Found this poking around today in Japan: http://www.upgarage.com/upgarage/stock/1/2/1204110002728/110?size=s

 

Interesting, wonder if the brand is sold outside Asia?!?

[Impatient]

I have that brand (zoom), came with my JDM Lancaster Bilsteins. I might try putting on the fronts...but mine are for 00-04. right now I have stk OBXT springs mounted to the billies. Ride is nice, but actually slightly raised the front. XT springs have thicker wire, but who knows true rates. viewing this on Android phone, can't translate.

[Oregon OBXT]

Weekend update: still waiting for springs. USPS must be slammed with holiday shipments and Obama cutbacks. ;-) Looks like it's in PDX waiting to go out for delivery.

 

So while we wait.... any suggestions on tophats for the OB struts? OEM? KYB? Other?

 

While it's been down, I'm also doing major maintenance. Just completed a plug change (one range colder) and pulled the injectors to have them ultrasonically cleaned. Boy those are fun jobs.

 

Also, in case anybody is wondering, a Perrin turbo inlet pipe won't fit the OBXT (at least not an O5). Our BOV port sits rearward (toward the firewall) about 1-1/2" more than the Perrin which is based upon the LGT. The BOV hose probably could reach, but their s factor wiring that runs right in front of the port in the Perrin position and there's no slack to move it. Fortunately, it's only about a 4 hour project to R&R the inlet pipe under the manifold. I should probably do a separate post with pics in case someone else wants to try the same. It's for sale if anyone wants it (for an LGT!)... $207 on their website, I'd sell for $175 as an open box item.

[ktmrider]

Was poking around one of my favorite Subaru parts stores in Japan last weekend. Came across a BTS kit for the latest gen Leggy, BTS-5081. Decent price, 90,000 yen, PITA to bring back to US tho.

 

Anyone know if suspension bits are similar on BP to BM vehicles?

[skibump]

Was poking around one of my favorite Subaru parts stores in Japan last weekend. Came across a BTS kit for the latest gen Leggy, BTS-5081. Decent price, 90,000 yen, PITA to bring back to US tho.

 

Anyone know if suspension bits are similar on BP to BM vehicles?

 

Saw that and was wondering the same thing. Couple weeks ago they had a set of BTS-5056 for 79,900 yen, was looking into getting them and they sold

[Impatient]

I'm the guy that doesn't like 02-04 KYB's on a 05-09.

 

So I found some JDM bilsteins, ironically for an 00-04...or maybe 99-01 JDM.

 

What I've found that might interest people:

 

Outback XT manual front springs are thicker than LGT springs (manual or auto). Longer too, of course. Some people are resorting to LGT suspension on Outbacks. Maybe OK with Bilstein HD's, but the front LGT springs are soft.

 

Too bad there isn't an LGT aftermkt spring that is "stock height" but stiffer than stock ....or a shortened Outback XT spring.

 

With KYB front struts & stock springs hub to fender (H2F) was about 17". I think that is same as 100% stock. With my 02 JDM Lancaster Bilstein struts with stock OBXT springs H2F is more like 17.5". From what I can tell it is entirely from higher gas pressure. Lower perch to hub bolts is identical. Spring is the same, so it must be shock static pressure???? Unfortunately, lots of positive camber, so I am still scratching my head on this. But ride is 1000% better than KYB.

 

Tried swapping in springs from LGT manual with these Bisteins. Lowered to ~ 16" H2F. Nice look, but bottomed out to much. LGT spring might be OK with KYB struts, but I wouldn't think so. Might be 15.5 H2F.

 

Tried Legacy lowering springs: got to ~15-15.25 H2F: but was undriveable. Every bump bottomed out. Maybe super stiff lowering springs would have worked, but the ones I had didn't. Rode great until you hit any bump; any; then "crash," bottomed out. Removed these.

 

So, if anyone knows of a FRONT spring that is stiffer than LGT but doesn't lower it, I might be interested.

 

The takeaway for most of you is KYB 05-09 front struts are harsh, IMHO.

 

Bilstein HD are stiffer in compression & rebound than mine (I think, based on limited dyno info), which MIGHT work OK with the soft LGT springs. But, you probably want some spacers. I would think stiffer springs and slightly softer dampers would be great.

 

In back, the Lancaster Bilsteins provide -+ stock 05 OBXT height (5 settings, ~7mm apart). I'm at 2nd from lowest with stock OBXT springs. Don't really love, but definitely softer compression & slower rebound than 04 KYB. So that's an improvement. I would suggest less compression damping & more rebound damping than my Lancasters, but not sure that LGT Bilstein HD's are damped perfectly of DD Outback. Might be too slow in rebound. To use HD's on an Outback, you'll need substantial spacers in back unless you are trying to slam.

 

Perfect world would be for Bilstein to offer lengthened front HD's to fit Outback (1/2 inch or so.....really very simple...just move the hub mount flange down on the strut casing before welding), and maybe revalve to 80% of HD spec. And in back, use the longer stroke and body of my Lancaster shocks, which they make for JDM, but again use 80% of HD compression and 70-80% of rebound compared to HD's.

 

I think this would give BMW-quality type ride and handling. If only they could at least comment on JDM BTS5056, but they are clueless to it. Hello Bilstein.

[ktmrider]

Any thoughts on King brand +1 springs? I scanned the OB.com thread but seems like the cost and lack of lowering on USDM models scared many off.

[Impatient]

KTM, When I looked there were no fronts for 05-09. that may have changed. Legacy + height or Outback - height might have been of interest...but hard to justify experimenting at their cost (in US)

[Oregon OBXT]

Well, they're on! Car is about 1-1/4" lower in the front and 7/8" lower in the rear. Looks nice, drives nice. There's really not much to it other than what has already been posted in other strut threads. You will need a low profile spring compressor - my old Harbor Freight one is now in the trash and was replaced with a Craftsman pair, and even with that it's a challenge to get enough compression on the front for either the OBXT or LGT springs.

 

I'll post more after I drive it for a while and take some pics...

[Kelvrick]

Update on thoughts and pics?

[Oregon OBXT]

Update on thoughts and pics?

 

Very happy with the mod. IMO, it's the absolute perfect ride height. It's low enough to be noticeable, but in no way looks 'slammed'. The fender gap looks maybe just slightly more that an OEM leggy. You can definitely tell the car isn't at Outback height from afar. As I posted above, it does leave a bit of a rake, but this doesn't look out of place on a wagon. A little load and she'll level right out.

 

From a ride quality standpoint I'm also pretty happy. The LGT springs have not changed the character of the vehicle much. My shocks were OEM with 105k on them. The left rear was so bad that it was dripping fluid. So, obviously, anything would be an improvement. After driving the KYB's for a while, I can see where people aren't crazy about the damping rates. But for $300 it's hard to beat. I think with some bars it will end up being a fun yet comfortable DD. I did end up going with the 04 rear struts, but again, what was on it were toast so it's hard to compare. It definitely did firm up the rear.

 

A few comments on the install process:

 

- The springs are a mother bear. I've done many a strut but these were the worst I can remember. The rear aren't too bad, just a lot of turns. But the front... on one side there are only two coils visible. You end up running them completely together (or as far as the tool will let you). That leaves the side with the three coils to do the work. This puts the spring into a banana shape and makes mating with the top hat a challenge, especially since the top hat is directional and must be oriented correctly to the base. I used air to help with the work of turning the compressors where possible, but you end up with one of the ends against the base and all you can do is 1/6 turn with a crescent. Tedious.

 

- Tophats. I reused the OEM fronts. The seemed fine. I would have bought new KYB, but they don't make them. Didn't need them anyway. I did buy new for the rear but again I could have gotten away with the old.

 

- Boots/Bumps. I bought the KYB kits and returned them. OEM was fine and fit better.

 

- Rear shock bolt. Mother bear! PNW isn't bad for rust at all, but these were a royal pain to get off. Impact air had no effect. Took 1/2 breaker + a 24" cheater. And on the PS it took heat plus the above.

 

Sorry no picks... with the short days I've been coming/going in the dark. Will post as soon as I can. Again, if you want to drop about 1-1/4" and retain a reasonable ride it's the perfect mod. But don't go into it expecting a race car suspension.