KBGRIZZLY64 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 I never rule out feedback and I'm glad you say something so then I can dig for actual numbers to your claims to see if your claims are true or not. Kind of hard to take someones words when there is not numbers or evidence to back it up you know? Thus why I post what I want to do so then I can get feedback like yours. Priorities change when car parts come into the equation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blongo804 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 fahr_side = strong knowledge. I would not take his words with a grain of salt. I am also a believer in poor core efficiency, but he summed it up with "It's your car. Do what you like." I think it can end there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Kind of funny a coworker of mine runs a Perrin FMIC with Perrin intake and TBE. He kept talking game about how he has more money into his car than me and how he could beat me. I have TBE with tune from cyro and smoked him. Sad that my coworker thinks that paying premium for parts will get him to where he wants to be when equal less expensive product is on the market today. There is nowhere near enough information in this paragraph to mean anything about parts. What turbos? What boost? What conditions? etc I never rule out feedback and I'm glad you say something so then I can dig for actual numbers to your claims to see if your claims are true or not. Kind of hard to take someones words when there is not numbers or evidence to back it up you know? Thus why I post what I want to do so then I can get feedback like yours. In general I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment however Fahr_Side is one of the primary resources on the forum: as such most of us would agree its not his burden to provide information to justify his hard earned experience that has already been posted repeatedly all over the forum, hence the "its your car..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBGRIZZLY64 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Ha no I understand its not his burden, it shouldnt be anyones burden. The sad reality of our society today is that there is not many who will reach out to find out things on their own and that I thank Fahr_Side for giving me the push to look into the core itself. As I do not want to put a part on my car that can hold me back from what I want. I wouldnt know extensive knowledge of a forum member because I have been on the forum for a two years probably less. LALGT and Fahr_Side you both have a ridiculous amount of activity in this forum and I wouldnt reject any information or opinions either of you have to offer but as well I would like to find the source of information and be able to see numbers, examples, evidence for myself. Sure its my car and I will do what I want in the end but that doesnt mean I dont look for answers or suggestions on people to help me in my decision. In regards to my race with my coworker it was more of an example of a sad assumption people have that if they pay for premium parts they expect premium results in which he has not got from his parts for several reason. I have talked to him about what he should do, ie tuning, and he has that mentality of "its my car, I dont care what you think." Priorities change when car parts come into the equation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWSPECB Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Save up another month or two and get a better FMIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBGRIZZLY64 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Save up another month or two and get a good FMIC. And good referring to what FMIC? Priorities change when car parts come into the equation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWSPECB Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 you caught me before I edited. Better was what I meant to say. FMS is not necessarily a bad FMIC for certain situations. But if you are going to go with the mods you detailed in your first post you might as well, like others have stated, not limit yourself with an FMIC. I haven't looked into FMIC's too much but I have heard good things about the TurboXS($$) and have read pretty good things about the ETS($$$) kit as well. If you are looking to stay under $1,000 I would probably go RacerX from the few things I have read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBGRIZZLY64 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 What I have read is that the TurboXS kit is the XO2 knock off (could be wrong). Idealy ETS would be a great FMIC to have but at the arm and a leg price they are wanting it just isnt reasonable. For the mods I have suggested you must also take into account the fact I am a mile above sea level. Thus I will be running less fuel to air ratio. Dave (Cyro) has the first XO2 kit (I'm pretty sure) and is running 390 whp on his hta 68 on E85. The new V3 kit is nice that it retains factory bumper bar but I have yet to find flow ratings, or core heat differences on my own. So to find this out I've been looking in other places for these numbers which will show the differences, advantages, disadvantage. Priorities change when car parts come into the equation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWSPECB Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 That's the best thing you can do in order to make the correct decision. Have you talked to Dave about it? The TXS could very well be an XO2 knockoff but I have no idea to be honest. Agree that the ETS kit is a nice option but is a very expensive one. Hard to justify unless you are doing a huge build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 The problem with what you are asking for is that you are not going to get one car on one dyno with a variety of intercoolers in general. Even so, differences in temp and fuel can make a big difference. Even so, Ive seen big turbos detuned and small turbos overspooled. There is just too much to just extrapolate data easily from just reading. Ultimately, the best thing you can do is contact a few installers that are trustworthy and inquire about their experiences with installs of different FMIC and get a experienced tuner than can tell you his experiences with different setups and help guide you between the two. Better yet, find a tuner than works with a shop like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Have you talked to Dave about it? This is a great idea. Dave has a lot of experience and I'm sure some of his customers have, or have had, cheap intercoolers on their cars. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjweb Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 For sure some brand name products are overpriced. Reliability isn't my biggest concern in an intercooler. Any fool can make one that doesn't leak. I'm more concerned about efficiency, and what I've seen from a great many of these low-cost, no-name Chinese cores is horrible... no internal finning etc. A lot of cars have left power on the table because the charge temps out of the cooler were higher than they should have been, and the tune had to be dumbed-down to run safely. Why spend a not inconsiderable amount of money on a high-end turbo like an FP HTA and then give up performance in order to run it with a cheap knock-off intercooler? This is quite irrational. It's your car. Do what you like. Well said. I believe that I had a post somewhere about the knock off intercoolers. Core density is the number one difference between el cheapo and brand name. As for the tmic, PW has a core density second to none. I posted pictures showing the difference between the knock offs (ims, fms) and the real PW. I firmly believe that you get what you pay for when it comes to intercoolers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjweb Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Here's the link - http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/review-fms-and-other-knock-off-parts-181111.html?p=3941294&highlight=ims#post3941294 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBGRIZZLY64 Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 Thank you sir its great to see the fin picture. Priorities change when car parts come into the equation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I am not a fan of cores that are cheap but normally the only way to know is compare thickness, design, weight etc. I took a risk with the x02 kit but since itsme appeared to take that into account when designing it i took a chance, normally i do not suggest any cores that sacrifice quality for price. I have seen the fms tmic inspired by the pw and i would never put the units ive seen on any car but i work with what my customers show up with and am always watching for efficiancy regardless of the setup. Ive actually heard good things about their fmic but i normally suggest a few options for customers to give them ideas and research on thier own. One of my biggest fears other than efficiancy is the metal shavings that ive seen come out of some of the lower quality chinese imported cores and think of what will happen after 20k worth of actual use. Its always a trade off and sometimes with brand names you get what you pay for, sometimes you can find a cheaper alternative with the same quality. Really comes down to researching what experiences others have had. I have seen a couple aftermarket upgraded tmic's for the wrx's that actually appeared to perform worse than the stock unit..... After working for multiple shops and dealing with intercooled turbo cars since the 90's ive seen my fair share..... Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjweb Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I took a risk with the x02 kit but since itsme appeared to take that into account when designing it i took a chance, normally i do not suggest any cores that sacrifice quality for price. Ask mike about those intercoolers and there pressure drops. My Leggie made more power after I took off his FMIC and installed the PW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I have not seen ANY issues with my current x02 fmic. It flows great, cools over expectation, never heat soaks in the hottest of weather. Keep in mind im running the original 3 inch core which is much larger than the second iteration *racer x edition* and still see full boost by 3300-3400 rpms. I have actually ran stupid boost on 91 oct just in the name of testing since my personal car is kind of a test mule for data collection. I ran 23 psi on the hta68 on gas under heavy throttle for multiple runs and did not see any issues with knock induced by heat soak. Everyone has their own opinion and is intitled to it, i feel the X02 fmic and racer x fmic are two of the best on the market when it comes to legacy gt fitment and economical costs. Plus i enjoy supporting a forum member that has gone out of his way to create a well priced quality product for these cars. Most quality intercoolers have .5- 2psi pressure drop accross the core and i have no reason to think this is not the case with these units although i have never seen issues with the performance of these units enough to test it myself. I have tuned multiple cars with these fmic's and am satisfied thus far. If mike has any test data to prove otherwise he knows i am VERY big on data collection and i would be happy to say im wrong if it benifits the community. Mike is a stand up guy and i appreciate what he provides to the community in service and information. I respect the fact he has choosen to go with different vendors and know he has good reasons to take his business elsewhere...like i said, nothing but respect for him and the way he runs HIS business. Truth is as long as its not a restrictive core or a cheap knockoff they perform as a mechanical device and are as good as the build quality. Im amazed a thread about turbos became a thread about fmic's.... Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBGRIZZLY64 Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Thanks for the insight Dave. See you tomorrow. Priorities change when car parts come into the equation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 No problem, Good talking with you during the tune and im excited to see what you decide to do. Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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