savestheday Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 While I have always admired the Legacy GT I have never been much of a "newer" car guy. Always had vehicles at least 20 to 30 years old. Classic water cooled VW's, pre-fuel injection Honda's, Old Volvo's, 90's Honda's. But decided a few weeks ago to buy something newer that I could enjoy while I work on my three other older cars. '93 Volvo 240 wagon - Nice stocker that needs a new motor '83 Volvo 2 door - Slammed and soon to be Chevrolet LSx powered '84 VW Rabbit GTI - Honda K-series powered corner carver So I found a 2005 Legacy GT 5MT........ wait for it..... WAGON! Ahh a 5MT wagon. I say "found" but I really mean that is the only one I would actually settle for. Long story short, it was at a small dealer 250 miles from my house. A bit rough around the edges for what I was paying for it but it was the wagon I wanted so I bought it. A few dings and a partial repaint at some point in it's life but a 70k mile car that was 7 years old. Not too bad. Then I was replacing the coolant line from the fluid reservoir to the turbo and noticed it had leaked on the intake boot. So I pulled the intake manifold and got it out to check for leaks since it is a MAF sensor car and they don't like that very much. And Voila! Blown turbo......... http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff231/savesthedaygeoff/IMG_7777.jpg How nice of that turbine wheel to self clearance itself against the housing like that. Trying to squeak some money out of the dealership I bought it from and maybe the Subie dealer since I know the service manager and it is just barely out of warranty. The plan: BNR 16g Downpipe of some sort Catless uppipe Replace both pesky oil lines with quality aftermarket units Open source tune the guy to get it running right Hopefully that will make it reliable. DA%#it I should have bought and Acura TL.... I may throw a TDO4 08+ WRX turbo on it for the time being though. Who knows. Cheers and hopefully you can console me/add some insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1055 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Its part of the drivetrain, and thus emissions related. Dealer should be held responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users paintpollz Posted July 18, 2012 Mega Users Share Posted July 18, 2012 u have the perfect modification plan, why so upset? if only all first time subaru owners did their research like you did.....I know I'm guilty that car with the parts you just listed with 3500 oci Rotella oil changes should last you a very long time. expect a clutch sooner than later. If you perform these mods to your car you will have a substantial power increase, stage 2 power. expect a flywheel, clutch, and tob replacement with quality aftermarket parts shortly down the road, and you wont be disappointed. "Remember Danny - Two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I understand the frustration and disappointment when your newest and most expensive car is the one that needs the most work. That said, you have a great plan and mod list. You're going to be very happy with the car when you're done. And being on this site, you probably would have done those upgrades soon anyway :grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee07 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Sorry to hear that but at least you didn't need to have it towed and when done will be faster and more reliable. 100k on oem turbo and intercooler btw maybe do a compression check first before putting in a new turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I think I would be over at the dealer, jumping up and down on his head... http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turbo-failure-wiki-173358.html Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 why a honda motor in the vw? just throw a vr6 in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Just saying, I would think twice about the BNR16g. I went with a vf52...after being now this forum for as long as I have. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users paintpollz Posted July 18, 2012 Mega Users Share Posted July 18, 2012 I think reliability wise the VF52 takes the cake. "Remember Danny - Two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rps13de Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 What kind of cake? Haha. I think my plan is to swap a VF52 eventually. With 108k on the original turbo its bound to go sooner rather than later. Reliability is the main factor for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users paintpollz Posted July 18, 2012 Mega Users Share Posted July 18, 2012 What kind of cake? Haha. I think my plan is to swap a VF52 eventually. With 108k on the original turbo its bound to go sooner rather than later. Reliability is the main factor for me. Carrot Cake, of course. Many people got well over 140k out of their vf40s. I feel like if more ppl gave a shit and checked all their banjos with frequent OCIs, they would've got much more. But many probably just used the turbo failure as an excuse to go bigger turbo and fueling. Can't blame em I guess. My vf46 has 83k on it and there isn't the slightest bit of shaft play. I expect to get 160k out of it, with Rotella and Subaru filters at 3500 OCI. "Remember Danny - Two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Is this oil residue on the pic posted by OP supposed to be there? If yes, coming from blowby then? Normal to have "that much"? On another note, shouldn't the OP drop the oil pan and check for metal particles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motohead Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Don't feel so bad, I bought my LGT with a dead engine! just dropped in a new motor. That was fun - NOT! shameless plug - I have a good used vf40 turbo I'd be willing to sell if you decide to stay stock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savestheday Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Well possibly you guys can school me on the IHI vs. BNR debate. Mitsubishi center sections work. No if and's or butt's about it. And obviously the IHI design leaves something to be desired. Yes I'm sure the oil restriction problem with '05 - '06 oil lines is the main problem. My thought process; If the BNR is balanced well it should be just as good as any Mitsubishi turbo. It is made by a small manufacturer in the USA. I build custom superlight bicycle frames so I appreciate things made by someones hands on this continent. If it fits these two criteria that is enough for my purchase. I am not looking for anything more than stock. But it seems you have to upgrade a bit to make the car reliable, so be it. I probably won't even change the EBC to take advantage of the 16g. But if there is a good reason to stick with one of the VF series turbo's please let me know and we'll go from there. While I could fab a front mount set up myself or any of that jazz. I already have too many projects.... Also, no one commented on this and I can't really find any info on it. But will a '08 WRX TD04 work on these cars? It seems the interchangeability is fitting. If I lost 10hp over stock I would be fine and dandy with that to have a reliable turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 May be some one NASIOC can answer that question. All I know is my tuner has told me to stay away from anything with a g in it. He has lot of experience tuning so I'll trust what he say's. He has a RX7, Evo X and a Audi A4 in his driveway. The Evo dose not have the oem turbo on it, neither does the RX7. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontGT Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 May be some one NASIOC can answer that question. All I know is my tuner has told me to stay away from anything with a g in it. He has lot of experience tuning so I'll trust what he say's. Ask him what the "g" stands for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savestheday Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 I've had nothing but good experience with Mitsubishi non-ball bearing CHRA's in the past. About the only good thing MHI ever made! And BNR seems to have been around for quite a while and seem like cool folks. So 16g BNR for me. When do I get paid again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Also, no one commented on this and I can't really find any info on it. But will a '08 WRX TD04 work on these cars? It seems the interchangeability is fitting. If I lost 10hp over stock I would be fine and dandy with that to have a reliable turbo. I didn't comment on this because I've mentioned this in several other threads, including the turbo failure wiki. Yes an '08 WRX TD04 will bolt right up. On a Stg1 WRX you will see about 230whp/320tq. It spools earlier but falls off harder than a VF-40 at 4k5rpm. OTOH it is totally reliable. You could easily grab the boost target and WGDC tables from a WRX ROM and paste them into your stock ROM. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motohead Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Also, no one commented on this and I can't really find any info on it. But will a '08 WRX TD04 work on these cars? It seems the interchangeability is fitting. If I lost 10hp over stock I would be fine and dandy with that to have a reliable turbo. Funny you should mention that. My 05 LGT has a long block and TD04 from an 08 WRX in it right now. I just kept the TD04 when I swapped even though my VF40 was still good because of reliability AND rebuildability concern. Apparently VFs are not rebuildable while there is a lot of support for TDs I use 05 LGT manifold, intercooler etc. etc., only have an 08 WRX longblock, uppipe and turbo. curiously, the silicone elbow between the intercooler and the throttle DID NOT look the same between the 2 I had on hand, one from LGT, one from WRX. I got mixed up as to which was which, and installed the one that fit best, the other seemed to space the intercooler too far to the firewall. Don't know if they are actually different, or if maybe years of heat and clamping forced them into different shapes. I also used the WRX intercooler support bracket. I thought they were different (WRX one longer) but upon second look I beleive they are the same. If you put a TD04 on an early LGT longblock, I don't know if the turbo oil feed lines are the same. You should verify that or have a custom soft line ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motohead Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I didn't comment on this because I've mentioned this in several other threads, including the turbo failure wiki. Yes an '08 WRX TD04 will bolt right up. On a Stg1 WRX you will see about 230whp/320tq. It spools earlier but falls off harder than a VF-40 at 4k5rpm. OTOH it is totally reliable. You could easily grab the boost target and WGDC tables from a WRX ROM and paste them into your stock ROM. oops, posted before I saw your post. That last sentence is good to know, I need to retune ASAP, as soon as my VAG-COM cable arrives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savestheday Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 The only reason I ask is that a local guy has a supposedly real nice one for cheap. As far as running on a stock map, you should have a bit too much timing in the range where the TD04 builds positive pressure before where the VF40 would have and a slightly rich mixture above that. Not too big of a deal. But definitely pull some timing in that low range if you are able with your tuning software. If the TD04 over my way is cheap enough I may get that, downpipe, uppipe, Infamous oil lines,and tuning cable and learn the software and buy a 16g in a few weeks. I want to drive my new car! But I digress, It's not like I have a uncool car to drive now. http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff231/savesthedaygeoff/Volvo%20242/HighwayCruisin.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motohead Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 thanks for the tip! Nice Volvo! I am a fan of slammed old school square bodied cars like those Volvos, or old Cressidas and such. and nice bike! I prefer hard tails myself (love climbing)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users paintpollz Posted July 20, 2012 Mega Users Share Posted July 20, 2012 Whoa dude. Sick whip "Remember Danny - Two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 As far as running on a stock map, you should have a bit too much timing in the range where the TD04 builds positive pressure before where the VF40 would have and a slightly rich mixture above that. Not too big of a deal. But definitely pull some timing in that low range if you are able with your tuning software. Not in my experience. Total timing is tied to load and rpm. Increasing airflow increases load and that will lower timing. Of course it's always better to get a proper tune as the stock maps really aren't great. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subie Lovers Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Kind of in the same boat... Bought a 06 OBXT and within 500 miles this happened... Also had low compression in #4 New plan BNR 20G bought from Th3Franz Racer X FMIC Catless Aftermarket DP STi Catless Uppipe Fresh build W/ JP stock bore OEM oil cooler SS oil lines and catch can PAR Straight cut 1st gear and upgraded 2-4 gears :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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