BigTDogg MA Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 re-read my post, i said get a subaru gasket instead of using the gates one (because the gates one is paper, and paper gaskets suck). the subaru one is a metal/rubber type Re read your own post brrrrraaaaaaaahhhhh You said a Gates kit. I know you said a Subie gasket, but does the Gates kit include a Gates pump or a OEM Subaru pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntryLevel Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 any idea of a good subie repair shop in western mass or northern ct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER DOWN Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Why Gates over Subaru OEM? You sir, have a set of balls which must require a bra to carry. :lol: Everything will be replace when I do my turbo upgrade around 200k Mike Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTATV Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 you should shell out the extra cash and do it while you are in there. 250 bucks will seem cheap if your motor blows up in 20,000 miles because your water pump failed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTATV Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 any idea of a good subie repair shop in western mass or northern ct? EFI Logics in Bethel, CT http://www.efilogics.com they are the only ones who work on my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alegend90 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 you should shell out the extra cash and do it while you are in there. 250 bucks will seem cheap if your motor blows up in 20,000 miles because your water pump failed... this...i just scheduled an appt with a shop to do my t-belt/tensioner/pullies and i asked about the water pump. the mech said it would be just about $250 including labor. he said to do it now not only for peace of mind, but also because its one of those "just do it while you got it ripped apart" deals. its will save some labor costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasAyinde Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Rear main seal is the same deal. You have to take the entire transmission, clutch and flywheel off to get to a $9 seal. Makes sense to replace it if you ever do your clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 rear mains almost never blow out on ej255/7's unless you have some serious crankcase pressure problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud_a4 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I would just do it for the peace of mind. I'm paranoid about that sort of thing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk222 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 All I need to do now is pick up a thermostat and an OEM water pump gasket then I'll be ready to get it done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontGT Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Re read your own post brrrrraaaaaaaahhhhh You said a Gates kit. I know you said a Subie gasket, but does the Gates kit include a Gates pump or a OEM Subaru pump? AFAIK, the only thing in the kit from Gates which they manufacture themselves is the belt. The other parts are made en masse overseas (e.g. China, Taiwan). The water pump that comes with it is certainly not OEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowwill Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Big debate here. Im at 103k on my 05 OBXT. Gonna change out the belt and tensioners. Not to sure if I would trade my working oem water pump for a chinese style one from a kit or autozone. Had a 95 eclipse that had 210k when the waterpump popped. Timing belt and tensioners was changed on time. I believe the tensioners are a very big deal when performing these job. Cant fix something thats not broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__raj Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 130k on original water pump here. The tensioner and belt done at 105k by a highly experienced Subie Specialist(20yrs) who said he replaces if leaking otherwise lets it be. If you are anywhere near Exeter NH I recommend calling Scotty's Country Auto for a quote also, really nice guy and excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasAyinde Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Of course he said that. The timing belt is not a difficult job on these cars and if a customer can get milked for labor then it's all well and good. Might as well charge two separate labor costs for when the water pump does go out. There IS such a thing as preventative maintenance and in cases like this, it should be practiced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 any idea of a good subie repair shop in western mass or northern ct? Not sure where you live but my family has been going to Colonial Tire & Brake in Somersville CT on Rt190 since the mid 1980's, we just call it Rich's. They can fix anything and do a great job. 860 749 7988. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTDogg MA Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Big debate here. Cant fix something thats not broke. No big debate. Speaking from experience, save yourself the money now and replace it when getting the timing belt done. Period. I regret not having it done when mine was done pre-purchase, but funds were really tight at the time and their "master mechanic" of 25 years says he doesn't usually replace them unless they're leaking. So I asked him, "the pump is driven directly off the timing belt right?" "Yeah" "so what happens if a bearing goes in the pump, catastrophic failure, right?" "yeah" "so you expect that pump to last another 105K miles?" "well if it fails before then we replace it" Going around in circles after a while I just gave up, figuring I'd DIY later. I seriously underestimated the lack of free time one has after a kid shows up. Now I'm paying $300 in labor just to have it done at my 120K. I would definitely not use a generic on something as critical as a timing component. On this engine, the water pump is a timing component. OEM or bust, IMHO, IME, I've seen too many autozone and generic water pumps fail in less critical applications. There IS such a thing as preventative maintenance and in cases like this, it should be practiced. What he said. AFAIK, the only thing in the kit from Gates which they manufacture themselves is the belt. The other parts are made en masse overseas (e.g. China, Taiwan). The water pump that comes with it is certainly not OEM. Which is why I don't understand why people just don't get OEM. You do it every 105K, just do it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 the gates pump isn't poor quality, it's just not oem. just because it's oem doesn't always make it better. what i do know, and this is after doing my components and water pump twice in the past month is, the pump is of equal quality to the oem, however the gates gasket is crap, so get a subaru gasket. i'm sure alberto already told you that. everything else that comes in the kit of of acceptable quality for the long haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lingling1337 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Sorry to hijack but I'm getting t belt and components done soon, do you guys recommend cam seals as well? The shop wants $45 in parts and $85 in labor- I'm short on cash so I may tell them to skip it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 cam seals aren't something that leak commonly, at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Hmm.... So you replace the timing belt at 105k and leave the water pump, then what? The water pump fails at 130k and you pull everything apart again? What if it ruins the $100+ timing belt? What if it completely seizes, wrecks the timing belt and your valves collide in to the piston or each other? What if you're in the middle of nowhere driving to a funeral and every shop you go to "doesn't work on foreign cars" (had that happen to a friend). Just replace it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTDogg MA Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 the gates pump isn't poor quality, it's just not oem. just because it's oem doesn't always make it better. what i do know, and this is after doing my components and water pump twice in the past month is, the pump is of equal quality to the oem, however the gates gasket is crap, so get a subaru gasket. i'm sure alberto already told you that. everything else that comes in the kit of of acceptable quality for the long haul. I'm not talking for me, I'm getting OEM parts. And yes, for the most part if it's a non performance part, OEM is better. Unless you get OE supplier stuff, like Bosch O2s if your car came with rebadged Bosch O2s from the factory, or NTK, dunno what LGTs use. "The OEM Subaru water pump is manufactured by Gates Automotive" Per FBP's website, so I would think that the Gates pump sold in the FBP kit is the exact same pump as Subaru sells under their own name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lingling1337 Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Hmm.... So you replace the timing belt at 105k and leave the water pump, then what? The water pump fails at 130k and you pull everything apart again? What if it ruins the $100+ timing belt? What if it completely seizes, wrecks the timing belt and your valves collide in to the piston or each other? What if you're in the middle of nowhere driving to a funeral and every shop you go to "doesn't work on foreign cars" (had that happen to a friend). Just replace it.... But if it's not that likely to fail, why do it at all? I have heard from a few Subaru techs and many forum members that its not crucial to do. And it seems like there are many other parts that would fail due to wear before the pump. By the way, can anyone else comment on cam seals not being necessary to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Again, cam seals are so easy to do while you are there, if you are worried why not do them? On the LGT motor they don't seem to be a problem, but older Subarus they definitely were... it really sucks to pull things apart again when it would have been so easy in the first place, I had to do it with the dang oil pump seal 20k after doing the timing belt. I'm not entirely sure the water pump isn't likely to fail... it may or it may not... to me it's not worth the risk for how cheap they are overall and how easy it is to do while you're in there, I don't like potential ticking time bombs... complete kit at Fred Beans, with belt, tensioner, idlers, and water pump is $345... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lingling1337 Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Again, cam seals are so easy to do while you are there, if you are worried why not do them? On the LGT motor they don't seem to be a problem, but older Subarus they definitely were... it really sucks to pull things apart again when it would have been so easy in the first place, I had to do it with the dang oil pump seal 20k after doing the timing belt. I'm not entirely sure the water pump isn't likely to fail... it may or it may not... to me it's not worth the risk for how cheap they are overall and how easy it is to do while you're in there, I don't like potential ticking time bombs... complete kit at Fred Beans, with belt, tensioner, idlers, and water pump is $345... Well I can't do the water pump this time (prolly wouldnt even if I could because the tech suggested against), but the tech suggested I get it resealed. Would this be any sort of stopgap or should I just wait and do the whole thing at another service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontGT Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 the gates pump isn't poor quality, it's just not oem. just because it's oem doesn't always make it better..............................everything else that comes in the kit of of acceptable quality for the long haul. I'm not saying it's a shit water pump. I have no idea, I've never used one. Just thought someone should point out that when you buy a Gates kit, you're paying for their name even though they don't make their own components - beyond the belt. Again, cam seals are so easy to do while you are there, if you are worried why not do them? Ummm. Cam seals are easy to do if you have the specific tool to hold the gear in place and have a wicked strong allen bit for the bolt, since evidently Subaru farmed out cam gear bolt tensioning to Godzilla. Anyone who's done this in their garage can attest to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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