Subie Dumps Legacy Performance

[kristian]

I was looking at the information on Cars101 and was surprised to see (it appears at least) that you will be able to get an OBXT LTD with a 5spd in 06. That seems a little weird that you won't be able to buy a LGT sport wagon with a manual, but you will be able to buy an OBXT crossover with one...

That could be good news (for me at least). Maybe that will prompt more aftermarket companies to build some OBXT-specific suspension parts since performance wagon people might be more likely to choose the Outback. It would be nice if someone built long travel coil-overs!

[forestir]

Since this defies all logic (especially since the OB XT wagon can still get MT), perhaps this was a typo or error in Cars101 or the memo from Subaru... one can only hope.

[akm3]

My only guess is

 

a) They are so financially strapped they could only keep around the profitable models (then why keep the baja? getting rid of excess parts)

b) They are creating space for a higher performance version (but is it going to be wagon only? Still doesn't explain why they are shafting the wagon)

c) Typo (Unlikely, cars101 is usually right on)

d) "Creating" more market for the Impreza (likely, why would anyone buy a WRX when for just a couple hundred more you can get (err, COULD get) a Cloth GT 5MT

e) There will be an option for a six speed ?

 

Who knows, I think it sucks though.

 

-Allen

[apexjapan]

It could be simple enough that the people that actually voted with their dollars, voted for the ltd. automatic versions far more than the non-limited manual versions. It's difficult to judge at this point, and we do need to recognize that this board is not the best place to use as a base for the average Legacy owner.

 

This is a site that is mainly frequented by the Legacy enthusiast, a somewhat new breed in the American Subaru world. Much of the members here are far more 'hardcore' than the average Legacy/Outback buyer. They sell a lot of Outbacks and Legacies - far, far more than WRX's and STi's - yet we only have a tiny percentage of people here in comparison to someplace like NASIOC. I'm sure it will grow, but for now, Subaru may simply be looking at the bottom line.

 

Plus, this is just the 06 models. The 07 facelift may have a whole different level of grades and options, and the manual transmissions may come back at that point.

 

Cheers,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

http://www.sevenphotos.com

http://www.scoobymag.com

[Wraith]

If true...it is sad, but not unexpected. This is my 3rd Legacy GT wagon and all have been 5MT. Each time my dealer has told me that I am one of the few 5MT GT wagons that they have sold. I traded in the only auto car I have ever owned (Infiniti FX35) for the best 5MT hi-performance wagon that I had test-driven. The list of manufacturers still making them is small and it seems to be shrinking once again. The US w/ all its SUVs just doesn't seem to be the market for hi-performance wagons, let alone manual hi-performance wagons. We owners appear to be the enthusiast minority

 

I have owned a lot of unique and low productions cars in my time...never figured my '05 Legacy GTL 5spd to be one of them. Anyone got the number for Barrett-Jackson?

 

Brian

[NutBucket]

This is pretty sad. I definitely agree that the cloth GT cuts into the WRX market. That said, I love my LGT. The WRX is just too small IMHO.

 

The MT Wagon is definitely a niche market. However, given that Suby has been wanted to go head to head with a more Euro theme, they should keep manual trannys across the board. Like others have mentioned, you can get a MT with any of the 3-series models (I think?) and most 5-series models.

[MtnSub]

The latest news about the dropping of MT LegGT wagons is disappointing and does not seem to signal future good things from Subaru for performance wagons, but this does not reduce the fun and appreciation I have for my LegGT/Ltd MT wagon.

 

I will drive and enjoy my LegGT MT wagon for 40k miles and see if Subie delivers a super MT wagon in 07. If not, back to BMW. Based on the outstanding experience I am having with my LegGT MT wagon, I would buy another Leg wagon, if they offer MT and a serious upgrade. I would pay $35k-$39k USD for a super Leg wagon.

[undecidedbuyer]

The fact that SOA dropped the non ltd legacy shows that they intend on making the neewly redesigned WRX more of a complete car. I have heard that it was going to have the same engine and tranny as the GT. If that is true the young performance oriented buyers will most likely prefer the Wrx than the non LTD GT. There is no reason to have two cars from the same maker competing for the same buyers.

 

[evil_O]

Now ... this is just MHO... but I would be hard pressed into believing that Subaru - wrc - will never offer 5MTs in some of their product line. It may disappear for 6 months to a year... but gone forever???? Nah.

 

But then again this is just my opinion. In any case I have one now... and I am glad I made the jump when I did.

[NutBucket]

The fact that SOA dropped the non ltd legacy shows that they intend on making the neewly redesigned WRX more of a complete car. I have heard that it was going to have the same engine and tranny as the GT. If that is true the young performance oriented buyers will most likely prefer the Wrx than the non LTD GT. There is no reason to have two cars from the same maker competing for the same buyers.

 

 

Yeah, the new WRX does have a 2.5L engine. And yes, the price difference between the WRX premium sedan and a GT non-limited was prolly about $20 a month as far as payments go. For that price I had to get the Leg. But really, I think the market is different. WRX is boy racer and Legacy is a sleek sedan with a more upscale image. That and I just think it looks better.

[SoldonSubie]

The latest news about the dropping of MT LegGT wagons is disappointing and does not seem to signal future good things from Subaru for performance wagons, but this does not reduce the fun and appreciation I have for my LegGT/Ltd MT wagon.

 

I will drive and enjoy my LegGT MT wagon for 40k miles and see if Subie delivers a super MT wagon in 07. If not, back to BMW. Based on the outstanding experience I am having with my LegGT MT wagon, I would buy another Leg wagon, if they offer MT and a serious upgrade. I would pay $35k-$39k USD for a super Leg wagon.

 

Mtsub:

 

When I bought my OB XT 5 MT a year ago I had three basic requirements:

 

1) MT. Because I drove an automatic for years and my wife converted me with her cars.

2) AWD. It will snow from Oct to April where I live. +, you're not safe in September or May.

3) turbo or supercharger. I live at 6,400 feet.

 

I basically had three options. Subaru, VW/audi and a Volvo R.

 

VW/Audi = slow cars. My wife's car is a Volvo and, frankly, my old Subaru was better. Plus, the R is pretty expensive though it seems they have seriously started to discount them. Like 6K off sticker as per carsdirect.com

 

Having said all that I seriously considered the, obviously, normally aspirated 325xi 5 MT.

 

The dealer couldn't find one for me that didn't have vinyl seats! An then they had to do a trade with another dealer. Sure bmw makes the MT available but they are hard to find.

 

I am really glad that I bought my base XT last year. Considering I have no use for a sunroof, leather or a passeger power seat it worked out well for me.

[evil_O]

Mtsub:

 

VW/Audi = slow cars...

 

Ever hear of the "S" series? Slow? Interesting.

[SoldonSubie]

Ever hear of the "S" series? Slow? Interesting.

 

Have you ever gone against one? If you have an MT and the S4 has an AT I'd bet that you'd be neck and neck. Of course it's only $48 grand.

 

Look at the auto week #'s and then look up what gets posted for the s4. Pretty much identical.

 

I guess if the s4 is as fast as an LGT then it IS fast. Honestly, I'd expect more from a turbocharged v8.

 

= drivers MT to MT or AT to AT then the turbo golf (aka s4) will inch ahead.

 

I am sure that at higher speeds (90+ MPH) the s4 will start to make the extra $20k a worthwhile investment.

 

Now as far as the "cheap" audi's are concerned I've easily smoked all of em, (a4) 1.8t, 2.0t, 3.0. (a6) 2.7t and 4.2, the latter being an allroad. Of course that's appropriate as I'm driving an OBXT. Haven't yet met a a8 owner who looked like he could see above the dash board.

[easton]

Will Canada still get the GT wagon with 5mt? If so, how difficult would it be to get one across the border? I live in Portland, and would happily fly to Vancouver to buy one.

[wunderkind]

turbocharged V8 from the S4? That's news to me....

[evil_O]

Have you ever gone against one? If you have an MT and the S4 has an AT I'd bet that you'd be neck and neck. Of course it's only $48 grand.

 

Look at the auto week #'s and then look up what gets posted for the s4. Pretty much identical.

 

I guess if the s4 is as fast as an LGT then it IS fast. Honestly, I'd expect more from a turbocharged v8.

 

= drivers MT to MT or AT to AT then the turbo golf (aka s4) will inch ahead.

 

I am sure that at higher speeds (90+ MPH) the s4 will start to make the extra $20k a worthwhile investment.

 

Now as far as the "cheap" audi's are concerned I've easily smoked all of em, (a4) 1.8t, 2.0t, 3.0. (a6) 2.7t and 4.2, the latter being an allroad. Of course that's appropriate as I'm driving an OBXT. Haven't yet met a a8 owner who looked like he could see above the dash board.

 

turbocharged V8 from the S4? That's news to me....

 

What he said:rolleyes:

 

Maybe we are talking about the R8s all of a sudden.

 

Regardless of price.... it is all relative. Some VW/Audis can be considered slow.. while others dominate.... R8.

 

Not to mention the RS line... super monsters but pricey.

[SoldonSubie]

turbocharged V8 from the S4? That's news to me....

 

Wunderkind and evil-o:

 

I WAS WRONG.

 

I was mixing up the previous generation with the current one. I somehow got it into my head that the 4.2 had a turbo charger.

 

evil_O: You live at 6,000 feet. I'd venture to say that your LGT is = or > than an s4 as far as acceleration is concerned.

[evil_O]

True. I have done more than go against S4s.. not in my Leg but... I have played in that world for some time - Audi/VW.

 

Hence the reason I have driving what I am - cost for perf and reliability is whole other issue ;-)

 

I still have my APR equipped 4Mo Passat that keeps throwing CELs.... but I digress.

[IwannaSportSedan]

I don't know if I buy the whole "SOA doesn't want the Legacy GT non-limited to compete with the WRX."

 

Practicality, Larger seats/trunk, and more refined look. Advantage Legacy.

 

Besides that, why would Subaru not want to secure A SALE against OTHER COMPETITION? Whether they sell a Legacy non-limited, or a WRX, the bottom line is still Subaru, not say... Mazda, Pontiac, Dodge, or any other brand, where subaru DOESN'T make a dime.

 

Business math tends to seem like people have their heads up their arses. How does narrowing your lineup, and denying people the coices that other vendors are offering make business sense?

 

So shrinking the line saves some manufacturing dough. Ok. By not offering Model "L", the customers have now NOT bought model "W", but rather gone to Brand "M" to buy a model 6 (oops, don't want to get too specific...) and not only have you saved a few dollars, you've lost more than you've saved, and your competition has a healthier bottom line.

 

Business math NEVER accounts for bad-will from the customer base. And hardly ever works to generate customer good-will. They just aren't quantifiable enough to have an effect with the accountants. (who, by definition only consider what can be accounted for. Not Taste!!!)

 

The thing is, reputations and viability are often won and lost with the favor and dis-favor of the customers, some of which is not very quantifiable, and sometimes isn't the absolutely most efficient, expense-wise.

 

Efficiency isn't everything. Otherwise we would all be gushing about how wonderful the Civic Hybrid is.

[PhilT]

Will Canada still get the GT wagon with 5mt? If so, how difficult would it be to get one across the border? I live in Portland, and would happily fly to Vancouver to buy one.

 

I doubt it very much, Canada is such a small market compared to the US, it wouldn't be worth their while producing a 5MT for Canucks only. The 2.5L turbo isn't available elsewhere, Europe and Japan get the 2.0L turbo I believe ?

[aussiebrydon]

I can tell you guys first-hand that the 06 Legacy Wagon will not have a stick. I had one on order. When me and my friendly Santa Cruz sales guy called to get more info on delivery date, they said, "We're sorry, that VON (vehicle order number) is no longer valid, SOA is not delivering any Legacy Wagons in MT for 2006" not even if you go cloth. The only way to get a MT is to get an outback legacy wagon so I went out and bought an 05 Wagon I dont' care if it has higher re-sale value, I got the one I wanted

[IwannaSportSedan]

Stupid, Stupid, Stupid, Stupid, Stupid, Stupid, Stupid!

 

"Thumbs up their arses, thumbs up their arses." - Michael Bolton. Not the no-talent Arse-clown. [/office space reference]

 

WHY do all the car companies have to make it so damned difficult to shift your own new car for yourself? A torque-converter automatic is not a substitution, even with fancy buttons on the steering wheel. It might be an alternative for some, maybe; but not a substitute.

 

In the words of Denis Leary: "Who knew they would change the *transmissions*? Did I miss a --blank--ing meeting with the *transmissions*? I never thought I would have to get angry about this sh#t!"

 

I am thankful that I want a Sedan, but I think this is just as crappy as if I wanted a MT wagon. This is stupid!

 

This is almost to the point where I would be reconsidering my next car purchase, if any other car company offered something similar to the Legacy GT sedan with an MT and true AWD, or really well balanced RWD for less than 32k. Nobody else does. I wouldn't think that would be such a damn tall order. I don't like giving my cash to companies with their heads up their rears. But they ALL have their heads up their rears!!!

 

The G35 is the closest, aside from the Legacy GT, but it pushes my budget for a car that I am not all that in-love with, inside or out. The Audi A4 comes close, but is just as expensive with much less power, and a questionable-at-best reliability track record. BMW is just plain too expensive for what you get, and getting uglier. Volvo, Jaguar, Ford Five Hundred, MazSpeed6 are most too expensive, and all far too FWD-biased, and probably only the Mazda and Volvo come with a stick. The dodg-y contingent isn't offered with an MT at all, either; and the General, as well as most other japanese and korean companies are all FWD for 4-door cars.

 

So that leaves me with the Legacy GT. A car I think I could really enjoy, would be willing to buy, but is built by a company with their head up their rear end, who is almost completely ignoring and pissing off the performance-minded driver who doesn't want a WRX. Namely ME.

 

If I wanted a 5MT wagon, I would be sorely tempted to buy an 06 2.5XT Outback with a 5MT, promptly drop the suspension on Legacy parts with low-profile tires, and re-badge the tailgate with Legacy 2.5 GT, Leave the OB fender flares on it. (so they can tell what I did) and take lots of pictures.

 

Then I would send a curt and dissappointed letter with lots of pictures of the lowered stance, re-badged tail, and the 5-speed shifter, to SOA and FHI, saying that since I had to "build" what they so recently offered for sale, that I am gonna tell everyone I meet about how STUPID Subaru is for dropping the manual trans, and say that the only reason I didn't give a competitor my money, is because no other morons offer a RWD or solid AWD MT wagon either!!!

[outahere]

When I was shopping for my 5MT wagon in January, there were very, very few to be found, even in southern California. I got the impression that Subaru had already decided, back then, that they were not going to build very many wagons with manual trans. There were plenty of auto trans wagons on dealer lots, but among the dozen dealers I contacted, I only found 3 MT wagons.

[Rut Ro]

WTF…..I thought I was all set to get a new ’06 LGT base for +/- $35k CDN in the fall or winter. The MPS6 just moved up on my list…..very disappointed in Subaru.

[MtnSub]

I guess SOA has dumped the performance advert campaign they spent so much $ on, (faster than a Porsche/BMW etc.). Maybe they will just drop all images of the wagon from adverts. I am sure the numbers show that wagons are not a big part of Subaru business and we all know how few competitors there are in the sports sedan market segment.

 

I must say that Subaru earned my business and brand loyalty with my first Subaru, 05 LegGT, MT wagon and I was planning on buying another Leg MT wagon, but not without a MT. Back to BMW if 07/08 Legacy wagon does not come offer MT and a major upgrade.