VXCL Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 just to clarify i was speaking in terms of looks. i know what celicas and eclipses, especially older ones are capable of. im saying the styling of those cars is VERY femine. the rsx is even boarder line. and as far as the girls comment to catch them. its not to say they can't drive. im saying i need to be able to catch up to them to check them out usually hot chicks in celicas and rsxs. especially when white. MAYHEM #122/22 STS NNJR SCCA AUTOX4U.COM XENON RETRO GUIDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 guys... don't get too hang up on numbers. The nissans and infinitis are cranking out hi-po cars, but look at their weights especially an equally equipped G35! Those even with 298hp will not easily outrun an LGT from a standstill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 VXCL - NP. Now I understand! ----- wunderkind - Definitely correct. I'm not worried about the number, but rather, what it implies in terms of power-to-weight ratio as well as "area under the curve" on the dyno (the former more so than the latter; but I'd rather not drive a Honda S2000, if you get my drift). -A <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 im so glad its 250/250 so we still stand a chance to all the damn cars nissan keeps pumping out every other month. now a 267hp eclipse (wonder hoe much tq and how much it weighs). Nissan has always been a Japanese powerhouse. Think of them as the "Chevy of Japan". To me, it's all a power to weight ratio..I mean, so what if the new E46 M3s have 333 hp? It's really the transmission that has to convert all that "power" into something usable and effiecent to move all of that 3800 lbs of weight. There is also no sense of shortening the gears and having a 6-speed tranny if the engine is cranking out at redline and the tires are not moving along witih same speeds. There's also no reason to gear the car soo low to keep the gas down, but then you end up dumping out soo much fuel down the low end to get the car even moving. In all, it's the tranny that has to do all the work to get the car moving. If the car is based on 3 critical points of what defines the car fast are: Engine power Transmission Weight of the car I, for one, deem weight of the car is the utmost important value, then the tranny, and finally the engine last. When you think about it, the tires have to deal with the weight or mass of the car while driving, so really, the lighter the car, the better the tires have a chance to start and stop and turn. Gotta look at things in a larger perspective. I think today's typical tire sizes for a touring car fall between 225 to 245. The real difference will come in if you are hauling a difference from a 3000 lbs vs a 4000 lbs car. Tranny will have to deal with that weight as well, and the engine just has to push out that much more power to justify the weight difference. Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmarch Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 the E46 M3 weighs 3415 lbs, according to edmunds. 115 lbs more than they list the Legacy GT at. 3800 lbs sounds like the S4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Add a full tank of gas, and the driver.. then you'll see that 140+ lbs of fuel and a 200 lbs driver will make it come around to 3750ish.. Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmarch Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Add a full tank of gas, and the driver.. then you'll see that 140+ lbs of fuel and a 200 lbs driver will make it come around to 3750ish.. Keefe versus 3635 for the LGT. It's really not that big of a difference, I don't think. I think most people would take a 80hp increase for a 115 lb weight gain. To me, it's all a power to weight ratio.. if it was all about power to weight, you should be happy with the tradeoff. Lots of people, maybe you also, would rather have a lighter car, even if the power to weight suffers. I mean, the automatic megahp mercedes kill on the highway too, but many people would rather have a lighter car with less power that actually turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ih8vtec13 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 No we don't need 250hp we need 350hp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 I'm all for adding as much HP until something breaks. Then its time to accept your situation. Which may not say much cause I just broke the header ......but I'm not giving up just yet! OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racecar Driver Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Add a full tank of gas, and the driver.. then you'll see that 140+ lbs of fuel and a 200 lbs driver will make it come around to 3750ish.. Keefe Driver / Instructor / Tech, eh, Keefe? First of all, the powerband of the engine has a lot to do with it. An E46 M3 makes as much power as it does because of revs(8400 RPM redline), and it's geared to take advantage of those revs. Mate that motor to a Corvette transmission and final drive and you're going to be disappointed. The car will feel sluggish because the gear ratios were chosen for a car with a torquier, lower redline motor in mind. Engines and transmissions are designed to work together. Nick R. weighed his E46 M3 SMG at 3369 with 1/4 tank of gas when it was stock (heavy wheels and all). His car has a sunroof, leather, typical options. Gas is about 7lb/gal, so even with a 200lb driver I can't see the car topping 3600 by much in competition trim. With stock-legal mods bob tunnell had his car weighing in around 3200lbs without a driver. That's not that bad, but also not typical of E46s out there, which is why I quoted Nick's car. It's about as heavy as you're gonna get for an E46 non-convertible. So now you're looking at 3630ish for the LGT and 3369 + 7*10 gallons (to fill up the tank) + 200lb driver (200lbs man!!)= 3639. Holy cow, they weigh about the same! But the M3 has an additional 80 horsepower. No brainer, here. (apologies for the username choice, my hand was forced) John V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Pulls up a lawn chair and case of beer. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Track Rebel Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Well coming from an Evo I can see how! Sure, my Evo was fast, but that was only once I modded it. It only started to feel real fast once I put the cams in and tuned it for C16 race gas. And that was only in the midrange when it was making almost 380 ft lbs of torque. Very little topend with the stock turbo. Get a ride in a real fast car like a blown LS1, pulleyed Terminator, or a GT35R Evo/STI and you will know what fast really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikingart Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 I read that world class racing cyclists generate only about 1/4 of a horsepower and they move on down the road. The Subarus in the chase - support cars have to push to keep up !!! My wife's na Forester ( 165 hp ) does just fine also so I don't need 250 hp other than for amusement and the grin factor is real . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorphien Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Need it? No. But my current car is a 99 Taurus wagon with about 140hp and 180 torque. It's anemic, can't pass well on the freeway and just play lugs around with great sighs when I want any power out of it. The way I see it, sure the NA Legacy would be at least a little faster but I really want something that can get out of its way well. 166/166 (or whatever it is) through all 4 wheels isn't that much different than my car running 2 wheels. The turbo is there when I need it, otherwise I won't be flogging it much (which will sure help the mileage). Also, I want a car faster than my mothers 240hp 2004 Accord. Terrible driver, there's no way she can have the fastest car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFromMass Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Speaking for the average Joe - probably not.. (1) What's more important for me is passing slow 18-wheelers on single-lane highways quickly... (2) Be able to climb steep hills with confidence.. (3) Be able to get through snows without slipping/sliding. Ooh.. wait.. yeah.. 250 horses.. nice to have.. Power is fun. I have a warmed Kawasaki ZRX 1100 that can crank 60-80 top gear roll-ons in under 3 seconds. You just have to be smart where and when you use it.... Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 250 hp too much, that's like saying you can have too much money. Bugatti Veyron GT will make 1250 hp and good for 272 mph. That's 1000 more horses than the LGT. Is that enough? Hell no, need more horses to hit 300 mph, then that might be considered enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windex Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Speaking as someone who now makes due with 100hp and 177lb/ft. I can say I don't need 250hp, but I sure do miss it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopy_kat Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 i just want twin turbos i just want twins.. oh.. wrong topic.. sorry.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2hondas Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 What we need is the 3.0 six in the Legacy Sedan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 what we DONT need is the 3200+ lbs chassis to go with that 250 horses Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt 45ss Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 size does matter we need more than 250hp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYNY Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 i just want twin turbos sequential twin turbos right? so there's no lag!! i ain't giving up 250 horses, can't go back down to any less now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulNEPats Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Invert the 5 and the 2 and then i'll be happy! ... ... ... for a couple weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDII Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I have close to 250 at the wheels, stock cars have 191WHP. your right, it is alot of power. With great power comes great responsibility! Need forum help? Private Message legGTLT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj808 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 i hate those cars along with celicas. they are chick cars. need to be able to catch them and check them out or make any dumb guy driving it nuts shrink when my sedan leaves him behind. personally i want another 50/50 and better suspension. just fast enough to play with almost everything on the road and easily keep everyone else in check. i don't think i could drive another n/a 4 ever again with very few exceptions. Think you would have had a hard time catching my 00 Celica GT-S "chick car". I was putting more to the WHEEL than your are at the CRANK in the lgt(think Hi compression engine + turbo). I HAD 50/50 weight distro and a suspension that would rule on most tracks if not all. I sold that to get the LGT but gods do i miss that car. Here is the old dyno(in case you were wondering) and yes i know it says "02 XS". It was a typo by the dude running the dyno but i didnt care enough to get it fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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