dwolson2 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 what to log is subjective. But I would try all the sensors, yes I know it will take forever to reload them, which you would normally never do, but it may be a way to see which one is being problematic. Also, if you have a check engine code, use learning view to see what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwolson2 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 and yes you use the logger, and after you select everything, click log to file, find the file and post it here(in 2 screen shots if you have to) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy25GT2005 Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 and yes you use the logger, and after you select everything, click log to file, find the file and post it here(in 2 screen shots if you have to) Sorry guys; no matter how I try, I cannot seem to get RomRaider to connect to the ECU. I am using this cable [ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002WIN8VQ/]Amazon.com: OBD2 OBD II Diagnostic USB Cable KKL409.1 VAG-COM 409: Electronics[/ame] and RomRaider v0.5.3 Beta RC8. I installed the drivers from the CD which came with the cable, blah, blah, blah. When I try to connect (after setting the correct com port in RomRaider), after a few seconds the bottom right of RomRaider's screen populates the "CAL ID: A3WC521C" and "ECU ID: 2F12505506" fields, so we know they are talking, correct? But other than that, I keep getting “Unable to send ECU init – check cable is connected and ignition is on." Is there something else I am supposed to do in order to make the connection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwolson2 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 never got that before, what year of car, what definitions(did you get the latest ones?), xp/vista/7? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 My guess is it's pulling timing. Has the car been pressure tested to ensure it's not leaking around any of the air inlet connections? The knock sensor may also be picking up mechanical noise, make sure everything is bolted down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy25GT2005 Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 never got that before, what year of car, what definitions(did you get the latest ones?), xp/vista/7? 2005 LGT/Turbo. RomRaider 0.5.3BetaRC8, latest defs. I partially resolved the problem by uninstalling the cable drivers from the CD which came with cable and installing the drivers mentioned in this thread http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96737&highlight=ebay%2Fvag-com Still having problems logging, but at least I can get a connection now. Big, big, question: is it reasonable and expected that immediately after a cold start (car parked over 6 hours), that the initial exhaust gas temp reading should be 698 deg F? This is with key on, engine not running. Once engine is started, exhaust gas temp quickly rises to high 800's / low 900's with a peak of 1157 after 1 minute warmup and driving about 2/10th mile. I need more concrete data, I know, but is that initial 698 number to be expected, or does it indicate a bad EGT sensor (as someone suggested earlier in this thread)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyRock Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 What problems are you still having? You're getting an EGT reading, what about the other parameters? The EGT's seems about right.... I have found that some vag-com drivers work and some don't, it may take a couple different driver versions to find the right one. What I found to work is by installing ecuflash on tactrix's site, this included openport 1.3 drivers and it did the trick for my vag-com. If you still find to be in a bind, uninstall all drivers, then install ecuflash. romraider doesn't need to be reinstalled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 EGT sounds good to me. The lower limit is just that. The sensor doesn't need to read any lower, (why design it and waste money to do so?). My guess is sensor calibration and material selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy25GT2005 Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Finally... I just uploaded a log to Google Docs; you can download and view here: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B2aEuJiEjv06MzMzYTdlYTUtM2IzYy00MTkxLTlhZWItNDlhYzY4OWNmYTRk&hl=en_US&authkey=COrl--UJ It is a standard RomRaider .csv file. I logged all of the parameters I could think of; for some reason, when I select too many parameters or possibly certain specific ones, RomRaider Logger drops the connection to the ECU and then I have to close everything out and start all over again. I would greatly appreciate any thoughts and/or requests for a new log with different parameters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyRock Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 ok, well. first of all, way too many things are being logged, it makes it very confusing. log these- engine rpm, engine load (2byte), throttle plate opening angle, a/f correction, knock sum(if avail), feedback knock corr- FBKC, kine learning knock corr- FLKC, ignition total timing, IAT, primary wgdc, mass airflow in g/sec, manifold relative press corrected. OH and you need some full throttle runs too.... if you can, do a 3rd gear pull from 2k-redline at full throttle. (I can even dyno plot it if you want) edit: in fact, your log is complete useless to me as it doesn't contain knock detection or a/f correction (not AFR) at idle. download learning view as well- http://www.romraider.com/forum/download/file.php?id=7871&sid=667b736e0caba91cdbda311eedaad1dd you can't be connected to RR and LV at the same time, just switch back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy25GT2005 Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 PartyRock, your wish is my command. I presume that when you listed "IAT" above you meant Intake Air Temperature? The only other parameters that catch my eye are "IAM (1 byte)" and "IAM (4 byte)". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyRock Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 you're right, intake air temp, don't quite remember which byte to use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy25GT2005 Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Okay, here are files with the parameters requested. The first file is a short run up the street until I noticed that "Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%)" wasn't logging any data. I stopped logging (car in motion; my son was driving), added "Primary Wastegate Duty Maximum* (2-byte)" and started logging again; hence the second file. By the way, not sure if this has come up before, but this is an automatic transmission car. The kid was running it in Sport mode for the full-throttle runs. https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B2aEuJiEjv06ZWRkZjljYTItZTkyZS00YzcxLWFiZDEtZjMxNjc3M2Y3MjI0&hl=en_US&authkey=CI_U19oF https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B2aEuJiEjv06NTI2ODIzZjUtNzFmOS00MDI0LWEzOWEtODliZjUxNjE5MjNj&hl=en_US&authkey=CJPg6OUD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyRock Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Well, it's quite long, what I can see is that you're not hitting target boost on full throttle. and that you're pulling 11 degrees of timing which is astronimical. You're hitting 8psi of boost on full throttle. Did you do a learning view? I'm curious to know what your IAM is, ignition advance multiplier, I have a feeling it's not 1 like it should be. There's also a significant amount of knock sensor activity, the sensor is hearing a knock in the engine. Seeing as your manifold pressure is only -6psi, there's a significant vaccum leak somewhere. it should be near -9psi (converted to -18inHg to -21inHg) with that amount of fine learning knock, I wouldn't even drive the car, something is seriously wrong. hopefully someone with a little more experience in log reading chimes in.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy25GT2005 Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 PartyRock, thanks for your insight. Will probably not get to the Learning View and additional IAM parameter until tomorrow AM. If you think of any other parameters to monitor, please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Logs look terrible.. Car shouldn't be driven. Have you had a compression/leak down test done since this started? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Looks about what mine has been doing. My guess is mine is making some sort of mechanical noise (engine/trans mounts, overly warn rod bearings, clutch chatter, flywheel, heat shield, TOB, end links, sway bar). It could also be partially clogged front oxygen sensor or bad knock sensor. Keep posting progress. I will hopefully be putting the car up on jackstands and driving it in place this weekend to see if I can hear noises. I think mine may end up being a loose mount or broken flywheel springs/clutch. I'll be sure to share what I learn. Best of luck! [rant] I keep driving mine, hoping something explodes so I know what broke. Nothing has broken yet. My engine is 140psi on all 4 cylinders so I've pretty much gone batshit insane with this thing. I am a stubborn engineer and love fixing things. I am convinced only automotive enthusiasts should buy turbo subarus. Check your intake track for leaks - get it pressure tested. Check the TMIC for blown out end tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy25GT2005 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 I have to say that the comments about the "terrible" logs are interesting because, all in all, the car seems to be running reasonably well right now. Clearly not perfect but certainly drivable (not saying that it should be driven, just that it is able to be driven). Most of the symptoms related at the start of this thread have been alleviated, possibly due to the replacement of a badly deteriorated pre-cat - see this thread for the incident which took place halfway through this current thread: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/another-blown-engine-2005-legacy-2-5gt-turbo-162696.html I am 95% certain that the engine has been compression and leak tested; in fact, when we picked up the car from the mechanic who spent more than a week on it, he said what was making him crazy was the fact that the engine was mechanically sound and every relevant sensor either tested good or has been replaced. Do I trust the mechanic? Hey, I hark back to a time when no one in the automobile industry was to be trusted and I still rate auto salesman as a 2 on the 1 to 10 scale of human life (bin Laden was a .4), and dealership service departments somewhere around 3 or 4 with a very occasional 7. But, this is a private shop which specializes in Subarus and does a tidy business on the side rebuilding used cars and reselling them. I have a lot of faith in this guy... I will pull some more data today and post later. More than likely my son will bring the car to the dealership and give them two hours of diagnostic time to see if they can figure out what is wrong with it. After that, who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Even with bad gas/noise you won't likely see the ECU pulling 11 degrees of timing. This is likely the max retard timing amount defined by the stock tune. It's possible it's noise but since the car is knocking non stop and pulling that much timing I don't see how it can be said to drive fairly reasonably. When I had knock of that level, my engine was toast.. Find out what the compression numbers are for each cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyRock Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 The car may be running good to you but if one of us were to drive it I'm sure we'd notice something. Your car has essentially tuned itself into safe mode. Get a compression check ASAP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy25GT2005 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 The car may be running good to you but if one of us were to drive it I'm sure we'd notice something. Your car has essentially tuned itself into safe mode. Get a compression check ASAP It really does drive well. It is quiet, responds well to the pedal, doesn't smoke, coolant temp is good, exhaust temp reasonable (?), etc. I know it is not great, but you have to believe me when I say it doesn't sound or act like it could blow up at any moment. Your comment reminds me of something the mechanic said, along the lines of, "it's like the computer isn't even there" which is why, earlier in this thread we talked a bit about the possibility that something is (intermittently?) shorting/grounding and causing ECU or sensor problems So maybe it is simply running in safe mode? Is there a way to tell if that is the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy25GT2005 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 I just spoke with the mechanic. He didn't have the numbers on the top of his head and I didn't want to bother him with looking it up just now, but he said compression test was one of the first things done and was definitely good. PS: can you clarify something for me? Are the logs showing what the engine is doing, or what the computer is telling the engine to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyRock Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I just spoke with the mechanic. He didn't have the numbers on the top of his head and I didn't want to bother him with looking it up just now, but he said compression test was one of the first things done and was definitely good. PS: can you clarify something for me? Are the logs showing what the engine is doing, or what the computer is telling the engine to do? Both, it's detecting knock (Feedback knock corr), and then deciding to pull timing based on that (fine learning knock corr). 11 degrees is extremely bad. I don't have time to type everything I'm thinking, stand-by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I just spoke with the mechanic. He didn't have the numbers on the top of his head and I didn't want to bother him with looking it up just now, but he said compression test was one of the first things done and was definitely good. PS: can you clarify something for me? Are the logs showing what the engine is doing, or what the computer is telling the engine to do? Logs are showing what the car is doing as well as what the ECU is doing to try to compensate. It is pulling max timing and is still knocking non stop. Something is definitely wrong. You should ask what the compression numbers are and not just if the numbers are okay. All 4 cylinders should be checked and you should be given a number for each. I know you like this mechanic but it might be time to visit a Subaru dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasAyinde Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 5 degrees of feedback when there is already 11 degrees of fine learning is even worse. As this is a learning experience for me too, does anyone know why his ignition total timing seems to be so erratic even at pretty much identical engine load/rpm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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