First time with Learning view

[MasAyinde]

So I decided to get some logs for my car in an attempt to start learning more about all the parameters and how they relate to each other. I took a snapshot of the learning view first to see what parameters I should monitor, and the 9.90 made me want to monitor the A/F Learning. When I was logging, it was at 9.38 at idle, and steadily decreasing as engine speed increased until it was around 0 above 2000 rpm. From what I have read, this means that it is running a little lean at idle. Since it tapers off as engine speed increases, is this a sign of a small vacuum leak? Also, on the knock correction table, is the -.35 at low load between 1650 and 2600 anything to worry about?

 

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3987/learningviewss552011432.jpg

[Adoniram]

Well, since you're logging data, why don't you use RomRaider? Do some 3rd gear pulls and log things like RPM, mass air flow, manifold relative psi, wastegate duty cycle, etc.

 

Post that info. It'll be a lot more helpful

[MasAyinde]

I used RR to log something, it wasn't the typical WOT pull in 3rd since I was more just seeing how it worked and it was on the way home from work, not at an airstrip. I'm posting it but I don't know how much info can be attained from it. I'll do the WOT pull on Saturday and post back up in this thread.

 

EDIT: and I'll turn on some different parameters

romraiderlog_20110505_161934.csv

[Adoniram]

hmmm can't really determine much from that alone.

Next time add:

 

Ignition total timing

Relative manifold pressure (PSI)

Wastegate duty cycle (might be called "primary wastegate duty cycle" i cant remember)

Knock count

[seabass07]

The fuel trims in the 0-5.6 will vary like crazy. I had mine go from +10 to -9 throughout the day. It doesn't matter at all. All that does matter is the last one. It is the fuel trim that will be applied to all open loop fueling. You have no real knock on the LV, so all looks good.

[seabass07]

BTW, the number doesn't mean you're running lean. It just means that is how much the ecu has compensated to keep you at the correct AFR.

[MasAyinde]

I reset my ECU to get a CD out of the CD player yesterday, so I decided to get another learning view. All zeroes for the knock and same values for the A/F learning. Looks like everything is ready for Infamous

[Adoniram]

You made a good choice going with them. I am positively thrilled with my infamous tune

[MasAyinde]

I saw mickeyd posted a stage 1 map on the romraider forums. Is there a huge difference between this map and the one I would get from Infamous?

[seabass07]

You'd have to do a bit of work on the MickeyD one. The Infamous one would probably be a lot smoother with a little more power, but I have no experience with his tunes.

 

You would have to reduce timing in a few areas if you see knock. You could turn up the boost a little more. IMO, if your end goal is stage 2 or more, I'd mess with the MickeyD map and wait until you do some bolt ons before spending on a tune.

 

It's not hard and it's a good learning experience and it's not too dangerous if you're careful and reduce the knock correction table by 50% or so and up it slowly to see how the car reacts.

[Adoniram]

The Infamous tune would probably be a much better start since it's based off your elevation and local octane rating. Something to keep in mind: if you buy a tune from Infamous and later add mods and need a re-tune, it's $100 (instead of the full $150).

At least, I think that's their policy... ask m sprank

[MasAyinde]

Well i would like to learn this stuff also. What modifications need to be made for elevation? I know that with higher octane you can increase timing advance since the fuel burns slower, but I'm not sure if A) thats all that needs to be done and B) what changes for elevation.

[seabass07]

I think the MickeyD tune is for 91. I did get a little bit of knock in a few places on 93 Octane. The timing was a little aggressive for my car in a couple of places. It was as simple as doing some half throttle runs to check for knock then upping it to WOT 3rd gear pulls. I'd do a pull and check the log for knock. Then adjust the timing by reducing around .7 deg of timing.

 

At higher elevation, you would just up the wastegate duty a little to compensate for lower atmospheric pressure. I think this would only need to be done at pretty high altitude. The ECU will compensate to hit target boost at higher elevation. Tuning boost is a little tedious depending on how perfect you want it to be, but it's not difficult and involves a lot of 3rd gear runs from 2k - redline.

 

Basically, you need to reduce timing as little as possible to run the higher boost safely. There are tools for smoothing out timing if you wanted to start with the stock tune. As long as you keep the stock intake and injectors, it is pretty simple to get the MickeyD map very safe and around 16psi peak.

 

From my personal experience, spending $15 on the vag-com cable and countless hours reading other's experiences made it a very good learning experience.

 

It's also a good idea to look at other people's maps and compare them. You can learn a lot from that.

 

The downside, if you just throw random numbers on maps or are too aggressive with things, you can blow shit up.

[black318i]

I tried MickeyD stage 1 & 2. I had to dial in boost and timing for both, but they are a good start.

[MasAyinde]

Just flash mickeyD's stage 1 map. Car feels nice. Did a 3rd gear WOT pull from 2k-6k and got the LV snapshot after I got back home. A/F learning looks good, but there is that knock around 2600-3200 so I guess it's time to start playing around with the tune a little bit. I expected it to look a lot worse.

 

EDIT: Air temp was 67 degrees and elevation is 98 feet. I wasn't able to comfortable do that run due to rush hour traffic. Tomorrow morning traffic should be better so I'll get a better run with the right parameters.

romraiderlog_20110506_182740.csv

[seabass07]

Personally, on the log, I'd drop knock correction, MAF and AF learning. Instead add feedback correction, manifold relative pressure, and knock sum. If you want more resolution in your logs, you can ditch feedback correction and fine learning correction and just use knock sum instead. It's pretty easy to tell where timing needs to be reduced with knock sum and rpm/load. Just ignore knock below 1.0 load.

[black318i]

AF will almost always look good with only a few miles on a reflash or reset. If your intake is 100% stock down to the filter (paper) there should be no problem. I'd remove 1.05 where it knocked.

[MasAyinde]

Maybe it's my logger definitions, but I don't see knock sum/count or feedback knock correction listed in my parameters. Everything else seems to be there

[MasAyinde]

Nevermind, just realized that there are a bunch of parameters that only appear when RomRaider is connected to a car.

[rtbrjason]

You're off to a good start. MickeyD has done most of the work and it's not too hard to fine tune to your car. Also, several other tuners use his LGT and pieces of his WRX maps as the start of their tunes.

 

Did you copy all the tables over yourself or flash his rom direct? The load columns on your LV could be a bit broader and usually are on his roms. The knock at 1.3-1.6 isn't too bad, but should be easy enough to fix.

 

I'd log the following parameters to start with.

 

Engine Load

Engine Speed

Ignition Total Timing

Knock Sum

Manifold Relative Pressure

Mass Airflow g/s

Primary Wastegate Duty Cyle

Turbo Dynamics Integral

Wideband O2 if available.

 

Do a couple of 3rd gear wot runs. Post up the data.

[MasAyinde]

I copied the tables over myself. I like this, I'm getting the hang of things. I drove around for about 45 minutes after filling up with 93 octane to let the ECU get used to the map a bit and took another LV. It's on my laptop so I'll post it in a bit, but I'm going out in about an hour to log some runs.

 

OK, posted. From the looks of it, it won't be too hard to dial this tune in and make it look nice. Are the A/F learning numbers too crazy/something to worry a lot about?

[rtbrjason]

The A range is a bit high but I wouldn't worry too much about it unless it stays there or goes much higher.. The rest are fine. What kind of intake/filter do you have?

 

The pulled knock should be dealt with but it's not in that high a load range. I don't even allow mine to pull learned knock until loads over 1.3.

[MasAyinde]

I'm running 100% stock, even down to the air filter. I just did a WOT run and saw no knock, of course, since it's all zeroes at the highest engine load. I wasn't even looking at the logger but I realized that the knock count was at 7 by the time I got to the highway and didn't increase at all at WOT all the way through 3rd gear. Next on the menu is a few 50% runs in 2nd, 3rd and 4th to see exactly where it's knocking, then the timing adjustments.

romraiderlog_20110507_094935.csv

[Adoniram]

16psi feels a lot better, eh?

 

The only other thing I'd want to see in a romraider log is throttle opening angle (%). You can see as early as 3000rpm your wastegate begins to open, and stay open, cutting boost all the way to redline. You normally lose a little relative pressure on your way to redline, but I'd like to see the relationship between the wastegate and the throttle angle.

[MasAyinde]

I adjusted a few timing values based on the information I'm seeing in LV, mainly between 1.27 and 1.61. Nothing too drastic; cut back by .7 for now. I'm trying to figure out rhyme and reason for the knock that I'm seeing, which is showing up in the logs mainly at lower loads. I'm seeing the knock increment when I'm moving off from lights and when I lift off the throttle. 50% runs are showing nothing. The log attached is pretty much the only time that I saw knock. It was me stopped at a light and revving the engine a few times.

romraiderlog_20110507_102443.csv