outahere Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Here is a summary of test results from Auto Bild for performance winters in size 225/40- R18. http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2011-Auto-Bild-Performance-Winter-Tyre-Test.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I bought my Blizzaks when I bought my LGT in '09. They only go on in the winter. The firestone guy that sold them to me said this would be over kill on our car... but that just gave me of a reason to buy em. I take my LGT through the passes here in WA, and also up to Whistler. No problems overtaking the trucks and SUVs in the snow or rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxwhit Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I actually work for Firestone as a service manager and sell plenty of snow tires. Not being biased but the Blizzak's are at the top of the food chain. The WS series have gotten better and better with each new model they come out with. The latest WS70 is supposed to outperform the WS60 in all aspects of driveablility on paper. I had WS60's on my WRX and they were unreal. So much control in all aspects and really smooth especially for highway driving. I am debating the LM60's or the WS70's for my the new Legacy. I get half price on either or, but think I will go with the WS70's since I don't do much highway driving and hard cornering in the winter. The LM60's have a higher speed rating which may be better if you do more highway driving and may serve that purpose better. Just my two cents on the Blizzak's. I have sold these tires for years and never one complaint on them. If you live in Western Ma. let me know and I will give you a friends and family discount to help out fellow Subaru owners. Oh, by the way, this is not an advertisement, LOL, just willing to help!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen5-3.6RLtd Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Put these on last November, and was silly with joy. It was so sad taking them off, but they'll be back on again soon. If you're gonna do deep or fluffy snow, I'd definitely say stick with the Hakkas or Blizzaks, but if you're mostly confined to a place where the snow never gets super deep, and is more often either packed or slushy (or cleared wet or dry pavement), then these have got to be some of the best gifts for this chassis. They also look ornery. But the best thing is that in most conditions, these will honestly let you drive like you would on a summer day - even with deep puddles, light slush, super cold roads, thin packed snow, etc. Tire wear at > 6,0000 km was negligible (just season 1 so far). Road noise was no worse than the stock Bridgestones (but they could be a speck quieter themselves, IMHO). Put them on Sport Edition D5s for nice look and easy winter rim cleaning. Just thought I'd share in case anyone was wondering about these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 A test of the following tires is available as a PDF download from Teknikens Varld: Bridgestone Noranza 2 EVO Continental ContiIceContact Goodyear UltraGrip Extreme Michelin X-ice North Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7 Pirelli Winter Carving Edge Bridgestone Blizzak Nordic Continental ContiVikingContact 5 Goodyear UltraGrip + Michelin X-ICE Nokian Hakkapeliitta R Pirelli Ice Control Winter Bridgestone Blizzak LM32 AZ Continental ContiWinterContact TS 830 Goodyear UltraGrip 8 Michelin Alpin A4 Nokian WR D3 Pirelli Winter 210 SnowControl serie 3 http://www.teknikensvarld.se/2011/09/15/24471/vinterdacktest-2011/ That's a very pretty PDF, if you speak the language Any translators here? It's in my native language so... You can always read the tables/scores for the tires, then you see that the Bridgestones ends up at the lower end of the test group while the studded tires ends up at the top, and the two unstudded Conti-variants ends up near the top too. And you can always use Google Translate for some words, but here's a short list (translation not literal but suitable for the test report): IS = Ice SNÖ = Snow VÅTT = Wet Road TORRT = Dry Road VATTENPLANING = Water Planing ÄLGTEST = Moose Test (Evasive maneuver) KOMFORT = Comfort (you probably figured that one out already ) RULLMOTSTÅND = Roll Drag (which has an impact on fuel consumption) DUBBAT = Studded DUBBFRIA = Not Studded NORDISKA = Nordic Climate Tires CENTRALEUROPEISKA = Central European Climate Tires (Essentially all-season tires) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedd Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Put these on last November, and was silly with joy. It was so sad taking them off, but they'll be back on again soon. If you're gonna do deep or fluffy snow, I'd definitely say stick with the Hakkas or Blizzaks, but if you're mostly confined to a place where the snow never gets super deep, and is more often either packed or slushy (or cleared wet or dry pavement), then these have got to be some of the best gifts for this chassis. They also look ornery. But the best thing is that in most conditions, these will honestly let you drive like you would on a summer day - even with deep puddles, light slush, super cold roads, thin packed snow, etc. Tire wear at > 6,0000 km was negligible (just season 1 so far). Road noise was no worse than the stock Bridgestones (but they could be a speck quieter themselves, IMHO). Put them on Sport Edition D5s for nice look and easy winter rim cleaning. Just thought I'd share in case anyone was wondering about these. Hadn't even considered these until I read this review, and then read a few on Tirerack. Now I'm stuck between these, Blizzak WS70, and Continental ExtremeWinterContact. I know that the Blizzaks and Contis are studless ice & snow, and the Pirellis are performance winters, but they all seem to be in the same price range. Anyone that's used these tires have any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 If your biggest concern is ice then go with studless ice and snow. If you are willing to trade ice performance for dry handling and possibly wet then go with performance winter. Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen5-3.6RLtd Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I'd agree, but clarify that deep or fluffy snow or heavy ice would be better for the studless ice & snow. The Pirellis I have handle ice not badly at all, although it's not stellar in the deep or fluffy snow, and won't set records on ice (though I have to say, it's fairly impressive on ice). But it definitely won't keep up with the leaders in deep or fluffy snow (but still ahead of many others!). Whereas it used to be all about compound to make a stellar ice tire, now it seems its about compound as well as having ridiculous numbers of micro-sipes to draw the water off the ice (which is what makes it slippery), as opposed to the deep ruts for snow throwing. My Pirellis (and I'm sure other performance winters) have begun adding the micro-siping at least, and since they have fewer deep-well ruts for snow, they have more contact area with all the micro-sipes, so the only major difference now is handling in the deep and fluffy snow, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedd Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Well, I'll be coming from the stock all-seasons, which got me through the end of last winter fine. I'm getting my oil change and tires rotated tomorrow, so I'll check with them and see what they give me for quotes on the three different tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen5-3.6RLtd Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Well, I'll be coming from the stock all-seasons, which got me through the end of last winter fine. I'm getting my oil change and tires rotated tomorrow, so I'll check with th em and see what they give me for quotes on the three different tires. So how did they stack up, price wise? I paid $1,420 installed with Hunter balancing on all four 17" including the Sports Edition D5's, all taxes in. You are so going to enjoy a Subie with good snows. Every time it snows, your eyes will light up like a kid arriving at an amusement park. Using the Armor All rim protectant twice through the season made them stay looking like new by the end of the season. Just a note that this one product from Armor All is the only one that's any good - most of their products I've tried were awful, IMHO. The Auto Glym rim cleaner is superb if they ever get really cruddy, and the Auto Glym tire shine stuff is just amazing, but both are pricey, so only pick those up when on sale at 30-50% off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedd Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 All prices include mounting/balancing: Contis: $138/tire Blizzak: $159/tire Pirelli Serie II: $169/tire (they get Pirelli's from a different distributor, and admitted that the price was high) General Altimax Arctic: $129/tire I'm seriously considering the Altimax due to the price, and they seem to get pretty good reviews on Tire Rack. I'm probably going to decide early this coming week and put in my order so that I can have them mounted next weekend. In the meantime, I'll have to deal with this blizzard with my stock Advans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Well my 05 GT is still on summer tires and the hills of Worcester are covered with at least one inch of snow. It may be one foot by tomorrow morning. The weather is interesting. Where are you buying your tires? I usually get Internet quotes and go to web sites of local companies (like Town Fair Tire) and get them to make me an offer. I found it better than going to the store directly. Somehow a walk-in gets the highest price. Which Continentals, which Blizzak are you thinking about? Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedd Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Well my 05 GT is still on summer tires and the hills of Worcester are covered with at least one inch of snow. It may be one foot by tomorrow morning. The weather is interesting. Where are you buying your tires? I usually get Internet quotes and go to web sites of local companies (like Town Fair Tire) and get them to make me an offer. I found it better than going to the store directly. Somehow a walk-in gets the highest price. Which Continentals, which Blizzak are you thinking about? Krzys So far, we have about two inches, and the snow has slowed down quite a bit. Still waiting to see how much more we're going to get, and trying to come up with an excuse to go for a drive. I have been going to Crother's Tire in Whitinsville (Northbridge) for my oil changes/tire rotations, and they were really helpful and fast when I came in with a flat one day. I'm considering the Continental ExtremeWinterContact and the Blizzak WS70. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilpurev2 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I have a question for everyone I have a 08 legacy 2.5 and I got a pair of studded tires from a friend who had a 02 legacy and the the rim is the correct offset but i didn't know if a 195/60/r15 would work with the car any input would be helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 How are your Russian language skills? Here is a test of studded and non-studdable winter tires from the Russian magazine Auto Review: http://www.autoreview.ru/_archive/section/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=117679&SECTION_ID=5216 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 My Russian is rusty. Interesting tidbits: Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7 aced the ice test (40/40) but its weak spot is dry asphalt. Continental ContiIceContact: the only downside - high rolling resistance (winner of the test). Yokohama Ice Guard 35 - only negative notes, one of them longer stopping distance on ice than some studless tires. Michelin X-Ice 2 - better on ice than some studded tires, weak spot - wet asphalt. Hakkapeliitta R - weak spot: dry asphalt and price. Continental ContiVikingContact 5 - doesn't it look like ExtremeWinterContact? Even the specs match for 205/55R16. Weak spot - wet asphalt. Kumho I'zen KW31 - Hakka R look alike but not performance, except dry asphalt, where they are good. Yokohama Ice Guard 30 - two years ago they shared second place with Hakka R, year ago were second from last, this year they are dead last. Krzys PS I like access to raw data. Somebody try Google translate and check if I made any mistakes (or rather how many mistakes did I make :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 ...............Michelin X-Ice 2 - better on ice than some studded tires,.............. I didn't see the test temperature mentioned by Auto Review (or at NAF) but I would bet that it was below 10 degF, where the studless tires gain a lot of ice traction, and the studded tires lose a little bit of ice traction. Not to mention that the testers commented that the Xi2 has undergone some upgrades (new rubber formulation? new internal construction?) to improve its ice traction. Remember this Russian test from 2009, where they tested the effect of temperature on ice braking for a few studded and non-studabble tires? http://www.zr.ru/a/16906/ ..........Continental ContiVikingContact 5 - doesn't it look like ExtremeWinterContact?............ Looks identical to me. But I wonder if the North American market gets a tire with the same formulation and internal construction as the northern European market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Russian test shows place of production of ContiVikingContact 5 as Germany. Tirerack show source of ExtremeWinterContac Germany and USA. I remember reading about temperature impact on ice traction. It was interesting but I am glad I do not really have such problem to consider. MA is not that cold. Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I've got a question about the bar graphs. Inside the bar graph there is a small line that appears to indicate the spread of tires within the category. Some winters were better than other winters, some all season better than all seasons, etc. The question comes up though.....did some of the good all seasons perform as well as the winter tires? It appears that way. It's possible to buy winter tires that perform worse on ice than quite a few all season tires. Maybe I'm misreading that graph. It also looks like the best all season almost performed as well as the best winter tire. http://news.consumerreports.org/a/6a00d83451e0d569e2014e86cf5472970d-800wi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 ^That looks like a graph from CR. Yes, according to CR, when new some all seasons can perform as well as a winter tire when tested for braking in an ice rink at 10 mph. But ice performance of the all-season will degrade more rapidly with aging, compared to a true winter tire. And the colder it gets, the better the winter tire will perform, whereas the all-season will get worse on ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 Winter tire reviews by the Canadian Automobile Protection Association can be found at the link below. No test data is presented, and so it is not clear to me whether APA does any performance testing themselves. http://apa.ca/tire_wintertireratings.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedd Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Just as an update, I ended up getting the Conti ExtremeWinterContact for $148/tire, including mounting and balancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7 aced the ice test (40/40) but its weak spot is dry asphalt. Since I have the Hakka 7 on I can agree that they aren't best choice for dry surface. It feels like they are flexing a lot more than the summer tires, but at least you feel it long before there's a risk of getting out of control. I haven't had snow and ice yet, so I can't tell how they are doing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 The Hakka 7 is studded-only, right? That would explain the ice performance. I'd gladly trade dry performance for ice performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 Since I have the Hakka 7 on I can agree that they aren't best choice for dry surface. ............ The same can be said for studless ice and snow tires, like the XIce, WS70 etc. They all give up some wet and dry traction (compared to performance winters or all-seasons) in exchange for better ice traction. Do you also have some studded Swedish "Icebug" winter shoes? http://www.icebug.se/default.aspx?m=641 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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