scoobyscoodle Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 In the past 5 years I have lived in both san diego and los angeles, needless to say awd is useless to me. This is my first subaru and I love it! All my previous performance cars have been rwd with a couple 4wd trucks. As sactojesse stated above it's worth every lost penny when you can just roll by the chain checks and see all of the miserable fools on their hands and knees just to be let by. The traction advantage as hp levels rise is also great, anyone with a high hp rwd can attest to this (although rwd ftw in empty parking lots at night!) and my favorite, AWD+TURBO=RainyDayFun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I do ski, maybe I'm spoiled, we have 3 local ski mountains (20 to 30mins away, depending on traffic) and Whistler is only an hour and a half to 2 hours away. Most cars with snow tires will make it up the hill no problem. Half the time its well groomed a few hours after a storm. Glad to hear you ski. Whistler/Blackcomb is a awesome area. Been there, skied it, even the Blow Hole. Lucky you. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeslgt Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Need AWD? Nah, but i LOVE my car. it's AWD with a RWD bias, best of all worlds... FWD is just ....hate it. wife has a 08 civic gets 40 mpg if you drive like grandpa, hard work really. but, glad to have it with gas going where its going. 50 mile commute and my car gets 22 on the highway. getting pricey.... so now i'm forced to drive a FWD appliance. oh and driving in winter, awd makes it SOOO much easier. do i need it, no, but i LOVE having it. Tires make all the difference, true, but, still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__raj Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 If we had to replace our 2005 Legacy GT wagon 5mt a likely candidate would be the Acura TSX wagon. I am a little bummed only offered with 5speed auto. My wife liked her 05 LGT for three reasons when she picked it: at time wanted quick got fast, manual transmission, and wagon. AWD is nice but not a deal breaker for her. She grew up in New England drive FWD sh$tboxes with crappy tires. She knows how to drive in the snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer27 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I grew up in Maine and live in western NY now. If you can drive in the snow, you can drive in the snow - if you can't, AWD won't help you anyway - in fact it'll probably just make you go too fast and not be able to stop in time. That said, I can drive in the snow and I did so for many winters in the two jettas I had prior the the Lego. Both got me where I needed to go - without snow tires. With the Lego, it's not just that I can drive in snow, it's that I LOVE driving in the snow. I work in a school so I get snowdays off and usually end up driving to the ski mt. (more like a hill here, I miss Maine) and it's great to be in total control and accelerate with ease. Dirt/mud roads in the Adirondacks are also conquered with ease. Bottom line is AWD is great if you want it and can drive well in the snow, but if I stayed on dry pavement most of the time I probably wouldn't have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock2534 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I believe the TL-S also had a problem with the 6MT... I forgot which gear it was specifically (I think it was 3rd?) but quite a few owners on the forums had their shifter pop out when under hard acceleration. Even with the shifter issue, I'd love to have a TL-S... especially the 07 in black. It's a shame that they took something quite handsome and made the newer TL ugly as sin (more than the 5th gen Legacy) Yeah, that 07 TL-S was a good looking car, that should be the current TL. Maybe with a little freshening up, but the current model is hard to look at. It is odd because I love the MDX and the TSX, but for some reason the TL just doesn't do it for me. I feel the same about the new Legacys too, I don't think they are ugly but I just don't see myself buying one. So that will basically rule out a suby for my next car or suv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillboy Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Would you still buy a Subaru if you didn't need AWD? Why? It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoFire Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Glad to hear you ski. Whistler/Blackcomb is a awesome area. Been there, skied it, even the Blow Hole. Lucky you. I was gonna say you can drive there too... then I searched up where you actually are. You are damn far away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coSTIgan-GT Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 No. Probably CTS-V. I bought the LGT because I wanted a fun, quick, and mod-able car that I could drive during Maine winters, and I will never own a FWD vehicle. Ever. RWD sucks in the snow. Yes you can drive anything in snow, but the AWD makes a huge difference. Just cause its snowing here doesn't mean "I don't have to go anywhere". I still HAVE to go to work. And usually my road isn't even plowed yet when I leave. I don't need AWD, but it makes my life a lot easier. And its sooo much fun to drive in the snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 No. Probably CTS-V. I bought the LGT because I wanted a fun, quick, and mod-able car that I could drive during Maine winters, and I will never own a FWD vehicle. Ever. RWD sucks in the snow. Yes you can drive anything in snow, but the AWD makes a huge difference. Just cause its snowing here doesn't mean "I don't have to go anywhere". I still HAVE to go to work. And usually my road isn't even plowed yet when I leave. I don't need AWD, but it makes my life a lot easier. And its sooo much fun to drive in the snow. Have you ever driven a FWD or RWD car with snow tires? If not, then your opinion is just that, an opinion. Numerous tests have shown that RWD or FWD with winter tires is superior to AWD with AS tires. Not to mention that AWD does nothing to help you stop or control the car once it is moving unlike the car with snow tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katalyst Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 ^ maybe coSTIgan-GT has winter tires, seeing as how he lives in maine... ...so...AWD + winter tires...is a pretty good combo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeslgt Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Read up on winter tire technology...pretty cool. if you put snow tires on your subaru, man it's like a tank. AND you turn and stop MUCH better. winter tires are worth the money in snowy climates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coSTIgan-GT Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I do have snow tires. My LGT is better in the snow than my 4x4 Silverado with all terrains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS5689 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 No. Probably CTS-V. I bought the LGT because I wanted a fun, quick, and mod-able car that I could drive during Maine winters, and I will never own a FWD vehicle. Ever. RWD sucks in the snow. Yes you can drive anything in snow, but the AWD makes a huge difference. Just cause its snowing here doesn't mean "I don't have to go anywhere". I still HAVE to go to work. And usually my road isn't even plowed yet when I leave. I don't need AWD, but it makes my life a lot easier. And its sooo much fun to drive in the snow. My first year of school in Orono I had a slammed GTI (I mean basically sitting on the ground,) running snow tires. The car never disappointed, never got me stuck and never had a hiccup in the snow. But hey, look what I did in the end, I sold my GTI for an AWD Subaru. It was mostly because the roads up here are so awful I couldn't get such a a low car around with out scraping the undercarriage over everything. On a side note though, what part of Maine are you from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coSTIgan-GT Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Bangor area. I think I've seen your car around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coSTIgan-GT Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Are you on the MainelySubarus.com forum? There is meet in Bangor next Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS5689 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Are you on the MainelySubarus.com forum? There is meet in Bangor next Saturday. Sure am, I'll go check on MainelySubarus for the details. Which car do you drive? I've probably seen you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coSTIgan-GT Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Silver LGT, loud, black wheels, grille and hood scoop. loud bov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubaruFanatic Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Have you ever driven a FWD or RWD car with snow tires? If not, then your opinion is just that, an opinion. Numerous tests have shown that RWD or FWD with winter tires is superior to AWD with AS tires. Not to mention that AWD does nothing to help you stop or control the car once it is moving unlike the car with snow tires. sorry bud but fwd or rwd with snow tires is not superior to awd with AS tires. I'd like to see these tests. Because the best test is driver test and tune. i've been in rwd and fwd also awd all with and without snow tires. for one thing any fwd or rwd without LSD is going to fail to awd. Does this mean you can't drive rwd or fwd in the snow.. no i drove my chrysler with high performance summer tires and made it through the snow but I also didn't mean it to work a couple of days. Like i said in my previous thread i have dunlop winter sports and my friend has nankangs. He drove behind me in 5 inches of snow and could go anywere I could. The only thing that helped me with my tires was more traction and better cornering. there is a reason awd was invented. I like the subaru awd the best because there is no annoying traction control its 50/50 in my car unlike bmw's and audi's which have a split front and rear and use the abs to "slow down the tires" when they slip and transfer power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted March 13, 2011 I Donated Share Posted March 13, 2011 sorry bud but fwd or rwd with snow tires is not superior to awd with AS tires. I'd like to see these tests. http://www.caranddriver.com/features/archive/winter-traction_test_what_price_traction_-feature/the_bottom_line_page_3 Four-wheel drive helps get cars going. When it comes time to brake or change direction on low-traction surfaces, the extra mass of the driveline becomes more of a detriment. Folks who live in hilly places that get snow may need the climbing capability of four-wheel drive. If it snows a lot in those hilly places, they should probably invest in winter tires, too. Even flat-landers who happen to have steep driveways may wish to consider a four-wheel-driver. Almost everyone else will most likely be better served by using winter tires. Acceleration takes longer, but in an emergency, the handling behavior and improved lateral grip of two-wheel drive and winter tires -- in the slippery stuff -- are the safer bets. Keep in mind also that this was 10 years ago -- AWD technology hasn't advanced basically at all since then, but snow tires are significantly better. The snow-tire advantage would likely be even greater now. And C&D gives the caveat that winter tires are not as good in the dry; that's no longer true. The general rule is that winter tires provide better dry grip than all-seasons in temperatures below 45 degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biturbowagon Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Going back to the original question: When I bought this car, I was shopping for an affordable and capacious AWD manual-transmission wagon that was at least somewhat peppy and had a reputation for reliability. One of the only choices was the LGT. That's why I got it. (The reliability part was going well until recently. At least the warranty covered the engine trouble.) If Subaru didn't offer AWD, I probably would not have bought the car, unless AWD wasn't available on anything that interested me. I use AWD for my snow driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theGeneral Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 If they did not have AWD my wife and I would not be driving Subies. There are cars that are nicer at the price point of our cars. But, where we live you are crazy to not have AWD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theGeneral Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I do have snow tires. My LGT is better in the snow than my 4x4 Silverado with all terrains. But it does not have the ground clearance plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Four-wheel drive helps get cars going. When it comes time to brake or change direction on low-traction surfaces' date=' the extra mass of the driveline becomes more of a detriment. Folks who live in hilly places that get snow may need the climbing capability of four-wheel drive. If it snows a lot in those hilly places, they should probably invest in winter tires, too. Even flat-landers who happen to have steep driveways may wish to consider a four-wheel-driver.[/quote'] I disagree that AWD is a detriment to turning or braking on low grip surfaces. You still need all of the traction you can get. The suspension still loads and unloads as it does on dry pavement, although it won't be as noticeable since the car is traveling slower (hopefully) due to the conditions. As for braking, with AWD the engine braking will be sent through two axles instead of just one. Edit: Reading over their own data, it proves what I just said. I have no idea why they would argue against their own data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock2534 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 sorry bud but fwd or rwd with snow tires is not superior to awd with AS tires. I'd like to see these tests. Because the best test is driver test and tune. i've been in rwd and fwd also awd all with and without snow tires. for one thing any fwd or rwd without LSD is going to fail to awd. Does this mean you can't drive rwd or fwd in the snow.. no i drove my chrysler with high performance summer tires and made it through the snow but I also didn't mean it to work a couple of days. Like i said in my previous thread i have dunlop winter sports and my friend has nankangs. He drove behind me in 5 inches of snow and could go anywere I could. The only thing that helped me with my tires was more traction and better cornering. there is a reason awd was invented. I like the subaru awd the best because there is no annoying traction control its 50/50 in my car unlike bmw's and audi's which have a split front and rear and use the abs to "slow down the tires" when they slip and transfer power. I know it is just opinion, but from my experience I would disagree. My Acura with snow tires was definitely better in the snow than my LGT was with the stock tires. I never got stuck with the Legacy, but you were always riding on top of the snow instead of digging into it, making box turns and plowing. The Acura was horrible in the snow with the stockers, but a nice set of blizzaks turned it into a tank, its weight helped I'm sure. I ran the legacy one winter on the stocks, just to get a feel for the AWD, then switched to Nokians, which makes the car quite fun to drive in the snow. You can hear them crunching the snow beneath you when you come to a stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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