Would you still buy a Subaru if you didn't need AWD?

[biturbowagon]

Sorry. This point has already been disputed time & time again. And car with all seasons is better than rear wheel with snow tires any day.

 

There's a reason why these things are disputed again and again: because what you wrote is wrong. (Let us know if you mistyped.)

 

Maybe we could create some sort of outlandish scenario in which you are correct: terrible bald snow tires vs. fabulous all-seasons with fresh tread, for example, or a RWD car with a huge front-weight bias.

 

But in the big picture, a car with snow tires will out-perform an otherwise-comparable car with all-seasons when driving in the snow.

 

AWD may help a car accelerate and keep going better in the snow, and may be less prone to getting stuck. It won't help appreciably with braking.

 

It's the tires that provide the grip to the ground, not the AWD mechanism. All the AWD does is adjust how the power gets delivered to the ground.

[ehsnils]

Right, ALL cars have 4 friction pads, even FWD and RWD because ALL cars have 4 wheel braking.

 

I have 8 pads on my car... 4 front, 4 rear. I suggest that you go out and count yours too.

 

And as for the topic - the "need" is dictated by climate. If you live in southern California and just use the car to commute to work you may never need AWD but if you live in Vermont and commute to work you may not be able to get to work for two months of the year if you don't have AWD.

[ShrinerMonkey]

Like I said earlier, there are some kool-aid drinkers on here who refuse to admit AWD isn't the miracle that Subaru marketing makes it out to be.

[ShrinerMonkey]

I have 8 pads on my car... 4 front, 4 rear. I suggest that you go out and count yours too.

 

And as for the topic - the "need" is dictated by climate. If you live in southern California and just use the car to commute to work you may never need AWD but if you live in Vermont and commute to work you may not be able to get to work for two months of the year if you don't have AWD.

....and snow tires. Order of importatnce - Snow tires first -> AWD second. There are millions of cars in Vermont that don't have AWD, or even winter tires and I would hazard to guess most are making it to work just fine.

[DHracer]

All honesty.....No! lol

[Lojasmo]

If I didn't want/need AWD, I would get a mustang.

 

All my previous cars have been FWD with dedicated snow tires. They did just fine. My son is skiing a lot now, and there is a stretch of curvy county road between us and the slopes. I. Bought my leggy for a slit bit of peace of mind. I don't "need" it at all.

[Magic Marker]

I'd probably pick up a 335i or something along those lines.

[Subyduby-doo]

This is not directed at any one individual, but....I don't get all you guys in this thread that say you would get a BMW. Hello. They come with all wheel drive. So stop saying that you have a Subaru because you need all wheel drive. Some of us can't afford the "ultimate driving machine". Those that can, I have no idea why you don't have one when you say you want one. You can have a 335xi with a 6speed manual or an automatic/dsg, and you can have it in sedan or coupe form. You can even get a wagon with a manual if you wanted it. Everyone who says they would get a 335 if it weren't for the snow either needs to stop lying if you can't afford one, or read up on BMW's if you didn't know they came with all wheel drive.

[sumfoo1]

335s break fuel pumps all the time.

 

I think the 335 costs more to fix fuel pumps than when we have a blown motor.

[RJS5689]

335s break fuel pumps all the time.

 

I think the 335 costs more to fix fuel pumps than when we have a blown motor.

I guess I need to let my Euro fanboy side come out again. The problem affected 2007-2010 TWIN TURBO N54 6 cylinder engines. BMW did recognize the problem with their fuel pump, and issued recalls on them. It is sad that it took them quite a few months before they admitted it was their fault, but they did in the end. All of the affected vehicles have the fuel pumps replaced for free. So no, it does not cost 335 owners anything to have their fuel pumps replaced.

 

FWIW I just drove a 335i coupe the other day, and it may be one of my favorite all around vehicles. I would pick one up right now if I could, but unfortunately finances don't allow me to change cars that quickly.

This is not directed at any one individual, but....I don't get all you guys in this thread that say you would get a BMW. Hello. They come with all wheel drive. So stop saying that you have a Subaru because you need all wheel drive. Some of us can't afford the "ultimate driving machine". Those that can, I have no idea why you don't have one when you say you want one. You can have a 335xi with a 6speed manual or an automatic/dsg, and you can have it in sedan or coupe form. You can even get a wagon with a manual if you wanted it. Everyone who says they would get a 335 if it weren't for the snow either needs to stop lying if you can't afford one, or read up on BMW's if you didn't know they came with all wheel drive.

There are plenty of reasons I didn't buy an Ultimate Driving Machine when I bought my Subaru. I couldn't afford a new $50,000 car at the time, and I really didn't want to look at a used vehicle. The 335 was just coming out when I was looking at my Subaru, so even used ones were damn pricey. You should also know that the xDrive used in BMW car applications just isn't that great. I've never, ever liked the car based xDrive systems, and I know plenty of BMW die-hards that will tell you the same thing. You also can't get "DSG" on the 3 series. They still use a 6speed torque converter automatic. I quote a friend of mine who has been racing BMWs for years now, "There are two things BMW just shouldn't do: automatic transmissions and AWD." So in the end, I'm glad I got my Subaru instead. When I am done with the 'Roo there will be a manual transmission RWD BMW to replace it... hopefully.

[biturbowagon]

This is not directed at any one individual, but....I don't get all you guys in this thread that say you would get a BMW. Hello. They come with all wheel drive. So stop saying that you have a Subaru because you need all wheel drive. Some of us can't afford the "ultimate driving machine". Those that can, I have no idea why you don't have one when you say you want one. You can have a 335xi with a 6speed manual or an automatic/dsg, and you can have it in sedan or coupe form. You can even get a wagon with a manual if you wanted it. Everyone who says they would get a 335 if it weren't for the snow either needs to stop lying if you can't afford one, or read up on BMW's if you didn't know they came with all wheel drive.

 

For many years, BMWs got a bum rap for being terrible in the snow.

 

The reason many of them were terrible in the snow is that many of them were equipped with summer-only tires. These tires are an absolute hazard in the snow, or even cold temperatures. They're great in -- go figure -- the summer.

 

Put a set of snow tires on a BMW, and it'll do fine in the snow.

 

AWD brings similar benefits to BMWs as it does to Subarus.

[ShrinerMonkey]

AWD brings similar benefits to BMWs as it does to Subarus.

...and detriments like added weight, complexity, drive line drag, understeer, worse fuel economy, slower acceleration, etc...

 

I will be looking at a 2008 328i RWD wagon to possibly replace my Subaru this weekend.

[biturbowagon]

...and detriments like added weight, complexity, drive line drag, understeer, worse fuel economy, slower acceleration, etc...

 

I will be looking at a 2008 328i RWD wagon to possibly replace my Subaru this weekend.

 

It just depends on what your priorities are.

 

I like having AWD when it snows, such as earlier today.

 

You'll find the 328i significantly smaller than a LGT. It's closer in size to an Impreza. Just FWIW.

[RJS5689]

It just depends on what your priorities are.

 

I like having AWD when it snows, such as earlier today.

 

You'll find the 328i significantly smaller than a LGT. It's closer in size to an Impreza. Just FWIW.

Despite the BMW being 10 inches shorter in length, the interiors of the LGT and 3-series are surprisingly similar in room. I find the LGT to be pretty inefficiently packaged in terms of space. I think it's the long hood design.

 

LGT Wagon specs: http://www.edmunds.com/subaru/legacy/2005/features-specs.html?sub=wagon&style=100397024

BMW 328 Wagon specs:http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/2008/features-specs.html?sub=wagon&style=100946475

[biturbowagon]

Despite the BMW being 10 inches shorter in length, the interiors of the LGT and 3-series are surprisingly similar in room. I find the LGT to be pretty inefficiently packaged in terms of space. I think it's the long hood design.

 

LGT Wagon specs: http://www.edmunds.com/subaru/legacy/2005/features-specs.html?sub=wagon&style=100397024

BMW 328 Wagon specs:http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/2008/features-specs.html?sub=wagon&style=100946475

 

The BMW also has less cargo room than the LGT, if that is at all important to you. I could get by with the 328i wagon's cargo room, but I prefer having the extra cargo capacity of the LGT.

[SBT]

...and detriments like added weight, complexity, drive line drag, understeer, worse fuel economy, slower acceleration, etc...

 

I will be looking at a 2008 328i RWD wagon to possibly replace my Subaru this weekend.

 

Well you couldn't pick a slower wagon, from the "driving machine" stable to replace your Subaru. Shouldn't be too much of a disappointment moving from one slow, stable vehicle to another.

[Subyduby-doo]

You guys aren't getting it. The point of my post is for those of you who say they would get a 3series if awd wasn't a necessity. The 3 series is available in awd, so it doesn't make any sense. We're not discussing the merits of the Subaru over the Bmw or vice versa.

[Subyduby-doo]

Well you couldn't pick a slower wagon, from the "driving machine" stable to replace your Subaru. Shouldn't be too much of a disappointment moving from one slow, stable vehicle to another.

Not that I'm a BMW proponent, but the 328i wagon will smoke a 2.5i wagon and be almost neck and neck with the GT.

[RJS5689]

The BMW also has less cargo room than the LGT, if that is at all important to you. I could get by with the 328i wagon's cargo room, but I prefer having the extra cargo capacity of the LGT.

DURP **smacks head** I totally forget to check cargo capacity. Good call!

Not that I'm a BMW proponent, but the 328i wagon will smoke a 2.5i wagon and be almost neck and neck with the GT.

The manual BMW wagon will hit 60 in about 6.5, which smokes a N/A Legacy. I'm not sure about its 1/4 mile speed/time though.

[SBT]

Guess the SoCal 328iWs (RWD) are much, much slower than stock 4th gen LGTWs. Never met one that could catch up, let alone keep up. YMMV.

[RJS5689]

You guys aren't getting it. The point of my post is for those of you who say they would get a 3series if awd wasn't a necessity. The 3 series is available in awd, so it doesn't make any sense. We're not discussing the merits of the Subaru over the Bmw or vice versa.

I hope you in no way think I'm trying to argue with you, I just see things slightly differently. Some people may not want an AWD BMW because they do not like xDrive system. That was one of my biggest deterrents from buying a BMW, I just do not want xDrive at all. The Subaru AWD system uses true LSDs and has proven itself a great system. xDrive on the other hand.... not so much.

[RJS5689]

I hope you in no way think I'm tyring to argue with you, I just see things slightly differently. Some people may now want an AWD BMW because they do not like xDrive system. That was one of my biggest deterrents from buying a BMW, I just do not want xDrive at all. The Subaru AWD system uses true LSDs and has proven itself a great system. xDrive on the other hand.... not so much.

 

Guess the SoCal 328iWs (RWD) are much, much slower than stock 4th gen LGTWs. Never met one that could catch up, let alone keep up. YMMV.

I don't doubt a LGTW will smoke a 328iW. It's also not a fair competition though. If only there was a market for a 335i wagon. The Europeans do wagons right though: Audi S4 avants, M5 wagons, E63 wagons...

[SBT]

The Subaru AWD system uses true LSDs and has proven itself a great system. xDrive on the other hand.... not so much.

 

Completely agree...on both points.

[Tomkat1127]

I bought a Subaru because I like the safety and convenience the AWD adds. Yes, any FWD would do me about 355 days a year. I drive 44 miles one way to work with the first 7 miles basically unplowed the first 1-3 days after a snow.

I did search for AWD cars with a turbo diesel and decent 22+ MPG. Sure you can find Q7's x5's, MB GL class but my pockets are not that deep. Service costs were a concern too. I considered living with just a TDI (IE VW) but choose to pass due to past experiences with VW and no improvement in their cars or their problems. The European enthusiasts tell you that a European car needs special care and love. Well, your Japanese competition is on par or beating your cars with less service and long lasting cars. America (the big 3) have some decent cars but still not back to the likes of Toyota, Subaru (partially Toyota owned), Mitsubishi, and a few others.

I love my Subaru Legacy GT (all 16 days so far). It's just not me, everyone loves the styling, quality appearance, and those who know reliability and safety. All the guys I know love the performance (wife does too, but she has me as teacher and she likes cars too).

What gets me about this thread is those that would abandon Subaru ( or most any make) for a Hyundai. To me I would buy a Honda but probably never a Hyundai. Maybe, they have improved but I have seen and heard too many stories on them. I think they (Hyundai) get you buy cheap car prices and the illusion of a great warranty.

[Subyduby-doo]

I bought a Subaru because I like the safety and convenience the AWD adds. Yes, any FWD would do me about 355 days a year. I drive 44 miles one way to work with the first 7 miles basically unplowed the first 1-3 days after a snow.

I did search for AWD cars with a turbo diesel and decent 22+ MPG. Sure you can find Q7's x5's, MB GL class but my pockets are not that deep. Service costs were a concern too. I considered living with just a TDI (IE VW) but choose to pass due to past experiences with VW and no improvement in their cars or their problems. The European enthusiasts tell you that a European car needs special care and love. Well, your Japanese competition is on par or beating your cars with less service and long lasting cars. America (the big 3) have some decent cars but still not back to the likes of Toyota, Subaru (partially Toyota owned), Mitsubishi, and a few others.

I love my Subaru Legacy GT (all 16 days so far). It's just not me, everyone loves the styling, quality appearance, and those who know reliability and safety. All the guys I know love the performance (wife does too, but she has me as teacher and she likes cars too).

What gets me about this thread is those that would abandon Subaru ( or most any make) for a Hyundai. To me I would buy a Honda but probably never a Hyundai. Maybe, they have improved but I have seen and heard too many stories on them. I think they (Hyundai) get you buy cheap car prices and the illusion of a great warranty.

I manage a body shop, and I've driven nearly every make and model around. I just recently rented a Sonata for a few days. Let me tell u. These are great cars. My fiance has a new camry & I would take the donate over the camry. I'd take the sonata over the new legacy as well. Just read all the praise bestowed upon it by all of the automobile publications. Not just the sonata, but all of Hyundai's products. Have you driven one? Muh better interior quality than what's being put out there by Subaru. Never mind exterior styling. I love the styling on. my 05 LGT, buy Subaru missed the his on the current cars interior and even moreso the exterior styling.Yuk.