Wrong auto trans fluid used! Is my trans trashed? Help!

[motodude]

also posted in Warranty Problems section, sorry.

 

I took my `08 Legacy 2.5 GT auto in to a local independent shop last July to have the trans fluid changed as I thought it was time. They put in Dextron 3 with a friction modifier (so they told me). About a month later, i started getting a weird shuddering at certain RPM. I took it back to the shop, they didn't have a clue. So I took it to my dealer, whose first question was, what trans fluid did you have put in? They told me that I could ONLY use Subaru's special sauce, nothing else. I also found in my owner's manual that if other fluids were used the shuddering would occur. "Your trans will have to be replaced..there's nothing inside of it that can be fixed," they told me.

 

And the tab for that? "$5000 including labor." OMG!!!!

 

The dealer flushed the trans out with the proper Subaru fluid and did a reprogram. Nothing changed...in fact it got worse, and now it's almost undriveable.

 

I went back to the shop and told them...they basically are denying that there's a problem and refusing to pay the dealer cost, saying that THEY can remove and fix the trans.

 

Should I let them try to fix it or should I bend over and take that huge hit from the dealer to make it right again??

 

I'm looking at suing the shop so I need advice...thanks in advance!!!

[BigBlack-V]

Try and find the receipt of the local shop who did the fluid change and ask them to fix the issue/ tranny. If they refuse which they will I would tell them you are going to take legal action against them as they should have known what fluid should have been put in your car.

 

If they dont budge call a lawyer IMO

[motodude]

Already done. I've promised them a trip to court (which I know I'd win) and they asked for another chance to repair the trans. Unfortunately, the Sub dealers who I've spoked to say that the trans is "unrepairable"...so we'll see....

[09_Red_GT]

take it to the shop for the "repair" have them get you a rental car, and then if they can't fix it, tell them they need to replace it.

 

Unfortunately in court, if it got that far, they would probably use the defense that you should have known how to maintain your car, as it states in the service booklet that only subaru tranny fluid should be used.

 

Not saying that it is your fault, i am just saying that will be there defense.

 

GL

[scoobydoobie]

Unfortunately in court, if it got that far, they would probably use the defense that you should have known how to maintain your car, as it states in the service booklet that only subaru tranny fluid should be used.

 

 

+1, you asked them to change your trans fluid. You did not specify subaru specific ATF to be put in, and now you want to sue the shop for using the wrong fluid .

 

Next time

[f1anatic]

They cannot use that as a defense. He went to them because he did not know how to fix the car; therefore he entrusted them with the knowledge, expertise and research to fix the car. It is part of the "contract" and the shop is supposed too put in OEM -recommended stuff or alternatives as indicated by the manual or authoritative online databases like ALLDATA.

[09_Red_GT]

They can use whatever they want as a defense. There was nothing wrong with the car, the OP thought that he was due for a tranny fluid swap. OP specifically requested them to change the fluid. It is up to the owner of the car to follow the recommendations of the service manual, which suggests that all maintenance be done by a Subaru stealership/shop.

 

It is a crappy situation for all parties, and I think that the shop is trying to make it right. So again I say best of luck to the OP, i hope it works out, without having to drop all sorts of $$$ to fix it.

[motodude]

+1, you asked them to change your trans fluid. You did not specify subaru specific ATF to be put in, and now you want to sue the shop for using the wrong fluid .

 

Next time

Uh, I TOOK the car into the shop to have THEM change it...so how the fack am I responsible for their screwup??

[LuckyBob]

Uh, I TOOK the car into the shop to have THEM change it...so how the fack am I responsible for their screwup??

 

I hate to be on the negative side of this argument also as it's a shitty position to be in, but...

 

You've had something within arm's reach since you've owned the car that says:

• All repairs must be done by a Subaru dealership or all bets are off.
• There's a specific fluid that the transmission requires.
  

 

The shop could definitely use that against you. As an extreme example: If you bought a toaster and the manual explicitly said not to use it in the bathtub but you did anyway, would you be able to claim it was their fault? As a less extreme example, if you never changed your oil just because you didn't see it in the manual, would you have any recourse? Moral of the story is that things you own and use have paperwork for a reason.

[scoobydoobie]

Uh, I TOOK the car into the shop to have THEM change it...so how the fack am I responsible for their screwup??

 

You gave them no specific instructions. You did not say that the car needs subaru specific ATF when you brought it, and in fact didn't even know it needed that fluid until you took it to the dealership. It sounds like from your OP that they told you they were putting in "Dextron 3 with a friction modifier" and you were none the wiser to the fact that that was not the proper fluid. Now after the fact, you want to sue

 

Best of luck to you, and hope the repairs aren't too costly. I just think that the idea of suing the independent shop is ridiculous and you will wind up wasting more money by trying to do so.

[subieleg]

I would think if they are certified mechanics that they would be held responsible. Even jiffy lube knows its a subaru dealer only maintenance. I would think you would have a good chance if you went forward with a suit. But I'm no lawyer either. Can't hurt to try.

[motodude]

You gave them no specific instructions. You did not say that the car needs subaru specific ATF when you brought it, and in fact didn't even know it needed that fluid until you took it to the dealership. It sounds like from your OP that they told you they were putting in "Dextron 3 with a friction modifier" and you were none the wiser to the fact that that was not the proper fluid. Now after the fact, you want to sue

 

Best of luck to you, and hope the repairs aren't too costly. I just think that the idea of suing the independent shop is ridiculous and you will wind up wasting more money by trying to do so.

 

 

Look, if I knew anything about auto trans fluids, of COURSE I would have told them.

 

People who use independent garages do not have to know every bit of minutiae about their vehicle. The bonafide shops have an OBLIGATION to look up and verify that whatever part or fluid they put into your car.

 

Do you think the old lady who pulls into a garage for a starter replacement or a valve job should be the one to know what sort of part the mechanic needs to install?????

 

Jesus effing christ I didn't think I'd get this kind of shit here. I'm not looking for a support group, just some advice about the transmission!!

 

I don't WANT to sue. I want the boneheads who put the WRONG fluild into my trans - which wrecked it - to make things right. My nice Legacy was perfect before this happened and now it's screwed. But they've been stalling for months and denying that there is a problem.

 

GET IT????

[MatsuDano]

ITT: internet lawyers

 

[scoobydoobie]

Look, if I knew anything about auto trans fluids, of COURSE I would have told them.

 

People who use independent garages do not have to know every bit of minutiae about their vehicle. The bonafide shops have an OBLIGATION to look up and verify that whatever part or fluid they put into your car.

 

Do you think the old lady who pulls into a garage for a starter replacement or a valve job should be the one to know what sort of part the mechanic needs to install?????

 

Jesus effing christ I didn't think I'd get this kind of shit here. I'm not looking for a support group, just some advice about the transmission!!

 

I don't WANT to sue. I want the boneheads who put the WRONG fluild into my trans - which wrecked it - to make things right. My nice Legacy was perfect before this happened and now it's screwed. But they've been stalling for months and denying that there is a problem.

 

GET IT????

 

CN: You are just like the little old lady who knows nothing about her car. Yeah, I get it.

 

No need to get all worked up. After all, this is the internet and people have opinions. My opinion is that the independent shop is not responsible for fixing your broken trans.

 

Now if it were a Subaru dealership that put in the wrong stuff, that would be totally different.

 

Do you think every independent shop stocks various OEM parts and fluids to best suit whichever makes and models come in? No, they use generic (read: cheap $) parts. If you want something specific, you typically provide that yourself.

[paintpollz]

Wow. First of all the toaster example I don't think serves justice here. The shop has an obligation to look up the dealer specifications of a vehicle and use all proper parts/fluid. Just like when you go to a Jiffy Lube, and all you want is a god damn oil change. they bug you telling you the manual recommends you service this and that, and all you want is the god damn oil change. Well that's no joke, because that's what the dealer specifications say, and that's what your supposed to do. Jiffy lube uses all the dealer recommended filters, fluids, etc. Same obligations apply to a small town local shop.

 

Your not talking about a small amount of money here. And all scooby wants to do is make the situation right. Every business owner knows that the best way to get business is thru word of mouth. The person who runs this shop is a complete jackass.

 

There's a fine line between what's right and wrong. There is no doubt in my mine that my uncle could win a civil lawsuit for scooby for the his lawyer fees and the price to have the dealer fix the car.

[subieleg]

Wow. First of all the toaster example I don't think serves justice here. The shop has an obligation to look up the dealer specifications of a vehicle and use all proper parts/fluid. Just like when you go to a Jiffy Lube, and all you want is a god damn oil change. they bug you telling you the manual recommends you service this and that, and all you want is the god damn oil change. Well that's no joke, because that's what the dealer specifications say, and that's what your supposed to do. Jiffy lube uses all the dealer recommended filters, fluids, etc. Same obligations apply to a small town local shop.

 

Your not talking about a small amount of money here. And all scooby wants to do is make the situation right. Every business owner knows that the best way to get business is thru word of mouth. The person who runs this shop is a complete jackass.

 

There's a fine line between what's right and wrong. There is no doubt in my mine that my uncle could win a civil lawsuit for scooby for the his lawyer fees and the price to have the dealer fix the car.

 

Exactly!

[LuckyBob]

Wow. First of all the toaster example I don't think serves justice here. The shop has an obligation to look up the dealer specifications of a vehicle and use all proper parts/fluid. Just like when you go to a Jiffy Lube, and all you want is a god damn oil change. they bug you telling you the manual recommends you service this and that, and all you want is the god damn oil change. Well that's no joke, because that's what the dealer specifications say, and that's what your supposed to do. Jiffy lube uses all the dealer recommended filters, fluids, etc. Same obligations apply to a small town local shop.

 

Your not talking about a small amount of money here. And all scooby wants to do is make the situation right. Every business owner knows that the best way to get business is thru word of mouth. The person who runs this shop is a complete jackass.

 

There's a fine line between what's right and wrong. There is no doubt in my mine that my uncle could win a civil lawsuit for scooby for the his lawyer fees and the price to have the dealer fix the car.

 

I think you're misunderstanding my point. The shop obviously has no integrity or they would've stepped up and dealt with it already. I'm just saying that the OP has had the appropriate information in his hands since he's owned the car, decided not to memorize or reference it before the shop worked on his car, and I can guarantee that the shop can and will use that against him throughout this process.

 

Although it's shitty that society has come to this, I personally believe it's a fact of life that it's my responsibility to double check things. When I took my car in for its turbo oil supply line recall, I spent a few hours researching the process and spent 25 minutes talking to the dealer mechanic assigned to my car about the merits of an OEM hardline replacement versus braided steel. When I had my 30k done along with a brake upgrade, I knew exactly what the shop's bedding process for their brake jobs was before I signed off on the paperwork. Every time I get my oil changed, I drive a block away and double check the drain plug and verify fluid levels. Paranoid? Probably. The flipside? I believe the chances of me getting into the same situation the OP is in are a helluva lot smaller, and I'm a lot better informed when things do go wrong.

[paintpollz]

Bob, I completely agree. It's very shitty that society has come to this point. It is amazing that the person that owns this shop, who I hope does not call him/herself a businessperson, would not even think about replacing the transmission. Reasons like this are why companies have insurance. It's ok to take a claim here and there, that's what the insurance is for. The person who runs this shop sounds like a cheap prick. I'd love a word.

 

Bob you also bring up a good point of checking everything ahead time, making sure the right steps are being taken. This should be a lesson for everyone in my opinion. Lawyers are expensive, and they are a pain in the ass. To get a civil lawsuit takes time and money up front, and it would be nice to be easily avoided by taking simple precautionary steps like Bob did.

 

That being said, if these guys don't fix the tranny, I would say take um to court. Teach someone a lesson, even though it might take some time/money.

[bluesuby]

Wow. First of all the toaster example I don't think serves justice here. The shop has an obligation to look up the dealer specifications of a vehicle and use all proper parts/fluid. Just like when you go to a Jiffy Lube, and all you want is a god damn oil change. they bug you telling you the manual recommends you service this and that, and all you want is the god damn oil change. Well that's no joke, because that's what the dealer specifications say, and that's what your supposed to do. Jiffy lube uses all the dealer recommended filters, fluids, etc. Same obligations apply to a small town local shop.

 

Your not talking about a small amount of money here. And all scooby wants to do is make the situation right. Every business owner knows that the best way to get business is thru word of mouth. The person who runs this shop is a complete jackass.

 

There's a fine line between what's right and wrong. There is no doubt in my mine that my uncle could win a civil lawsuit for scooby for the his lawyer fees and the price to have the dealer fix the car.

It is incumbent upon the shop to use proper fluid/parts. They did not, They lose. It's pretty common knowledge that most consumers do not do their own maintenance. They take the car to a place where they expect things will be done right. If a shop cannot do things right they should not be in business taking money for doing wrong.

[LuckyBob]

[...]Reasons like this are why companies have insurance. It's ok to take a claim here and there, that's what the insurance is for.[...]

 

It is incumbent upon the shop to use proper fluid/parts. They did not, They lose.[...]

 

How much do we want to bet that based on the shop's behavior that they either have zero or insufficient insurance, and that somewhere in the paperwork the OP signed that there's a zero liability clause?

 

I'm also one of those people who reads EULAs and cell phone contracts cover to cover.

[Scruit]

My opinion, FWIW: The shop is liable for using the wrong fluid. The OP is not expected to know how to fix his car, that is what the shop is for. The shop cannot disclaim liability based upon not them being Subaru, nor becuase of some hidden fine print that says; "We can screw up and you can't blame us" clause.

 

The shop generally must be given an opportunity to attempt to rectify the problem.

 

If the trans is toast, then you will need to be prepared to prove that the trans failure is not due to a pre-existing problem and unrelated to the fluid change. eg I drove my friend's car and it puked a CV joint. I *may* be liable for that is the failure was caused by something I did, or I may be off the hook if the failre was due to a pre-existing cause. As it turns out the boot has split and the grease was long gone. It was clear that the CV joint had run with no lubrication. My friend and I agreed that the failure was not my fault, so I didn't have to pay for the repair.

 

But really... OP: For $5k, get a real lawyer involved now. Don't take $5k of legal advice from anyone who does not have a law degree.

 

 

 

BTW, the toaster example is stupid. A better example would be if you hired a builder to do work on your house and they didn't do work to code, causing a fire. They cannot say; "You should have known that the work was not to code." THEY are responsible for knowing how to do the thing they have entered into a contract to do.

[MatsuDano]

I'm also one of those people who reads EULAs and cell phone contracts cover to cover.

 

+1 on this.

 

OP, hope you get what you need out of those guys. If nothing else, thanks for learning the lesson for the rest of us to be extra careful about this kind of thing.

[fishbone]

First gen early model Minis (non-S) equipped with CVTs have gotten kind of a bad rap of failures that would rack up to an 8,000 repair bill. It is still unclear, to this day, what percentage of those failures were caused by aftermarket maintenance performed at random shops which failed to use the proper fluid. This is a big reason why manufacturers started capping off the fill neck and putting disclaimers on them. Just giving an example I know of, there are many many others out there.

I ran into a similar issue, the DEALER gave my trusted shop the 4EAT ATF which is NOT supposed to be used in the 5EAT since it is akin to a Dexron 3. They put 3.5 quarts out of the 10 in the tranny of the wrong stuff, I have used it for a year at Stage 2 power levels with no issues. But that stuff did break down awfully quick, when I flushed the tranny the stuff looked terrible.

 

I'm with f1anatic on this, shop is on the hook. Opie did not sign any waivers.

Opie, it is not cost effective to repair the transmission when a replacement unit is under 2500 these days. Used, of course.

[Max Capacity]

IMO the shop put the wrong fluid in the tranny. It's that simple. It's their fault. They should know what every car needs for transmission fluid if they are going to replace it. What, do they put Dexron3 in everything ?

 

 

It could be different with transmissions. But it's federal law that if a Manufaucture say you can only use "Our oil" in the cars engine, they must supply it, free.

 

So the owners manual must say the fluid must meet a standard. You can use any fuild that's meets it.

 

OP you may be able to get some good info from your state DMV or attorney general.

[motodude]

OK so here's an update: I took the Legacy to another dealer who told me the trans was shot, same deal. $4700 to fix it. Called the garage and asked them to make it right..."Bring the car in and we'll fix it ourselves," they said. How long will you have it? I asked. "Can't tell you, dunno" was their response. Knowing that letting them do it themselves would likely result in a) my car being at their garage for weeks on end, in bits, until THEY realized and accepted that the trans would have to be replaced (I am going on what the two dealers told me, i.e. that the trans has no repairable parts, thus the necessity of the swap), and b) the very real possibilty that they would eff it up or jury-rig a repair, I decided to take the hit and have the dealer do the job.

 

Some background on the garage: the owner is a MAJOR alcoholic and he is rarely around...the shop foreman claims they don't have money and that their biz is slow but hey, what's that I see parked there? Three pristine `67 Camaros belonging to the owner, oh and his daily driver is an Acura NSX as well! I said well, why not just use your liability insurance? This IS what insurance is for, right? "Uhh, well if we do that our premiums will go up," was his reply.

 

The shitty thing is, I've been going to this garage for six-seven years now and they've always been straight with me. I guess they don't really value my business since they decided to screw me over on this deal.

 

Yeah yeah yeah I KNOW I should've checked the manual and informed them about the fluid, but I TRUSTED them to do the job right, and I think most people would do just the same. Lesson learned. I don't wanna go to court but we'll see...$4700 is a very stiff penalty for trusting an indie garage.