spartan Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I have spec b bilstein's and swift springs here. Couldn't be happier, even my wife is accepting of the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.hicksta Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I have spec b bilstein's and swift springs here. Couldn't be happier, even my wife is accepting of the ride. I've got the Bilstein's from FBP with Swifts and I couldn't be happier with the setup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Well I'm getting rid of the god awful bc coilovers, can stand the ride. So I'm debating between Sti pinks with KONI inserts or bilsteins. What's a better shock bilsteins or the insert by KONI, if ya had to pick which one KONI or bilsteins , thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 koni's are better than bilsteins. period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doccrowley Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Is there such thing as sporty and wife-happy at the same time? yeah, unfortunately it's called stay stock-stay happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Koni's can be dropped into stock springs right? AFAIK, the stock springs are decent and with "dialing in" the konis you can find the right setup for you...? Also, Koni's + spec.b top hats can work? Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gire Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Is there such thing as sporty and wife-happy at the same time? iONs with stock struts were very comfortable. Lowered to tidy up the fender gap but not ultra stiff. Mind you, my stock struts wore out after about 5 years and now I have JDM Pink springs waiting to mate up to JDM GT Biltein Rev B struts. Getting installed finally this month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattg Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 This is what we've see over the years. On my LGT I ran stock springs w/Konis and STi Pinks with Konis. The konis will allow you to dial things in. I used to drive in NYC and then go out to the road race course with my car. The Konis allowed me to have the range to adjust it. Don't get roped into the "coils are the best" scenario. Despite Konis being pricey they carry a lifetime warranty, and are great dampers. -mike http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: paisan@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" What are your thoughts on the Koni/Pink combo? I have Pinks on OEM dampers now and have been planning on going with Koni's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Is there such thing as sporty and wife-happy at the same time? Yes, buy her a comfy boat, and get yourself a proper car (whether it be LGT with modded suspension, or whatever tickles your pickle). [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustangendsley Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Im going with the epic springs with the koni incert for my dd/track car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 What are your thoughts on the Koni/Pink combo? I have Pinks on OEM dampers now and have been planning on going with Koni's. That is what I ran with my wagon and they were AWESOME. Probably the closest thing to a track setup you can still drive on the street. My MIL and Wife had no problem when I dialed them down and then I dialed them up for the track and it worked out quite well. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.sane Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 koni's are better than bilsteins. period. Other than rebound adjustability, I'm curious what else makes you say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.hicksta Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 ^^^ Wondering the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauiJim Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Other than rebound adjustability, I'm curious what else makes you say this? That's what makes them better- tailor to the springs you're using to achieve critical damping. They've got a comfortable compression damping curve as well, so they ride great. I'm sure Bilsteins ride great too, when paired with the right spring, but honestly, many people wouldn't know good suspension because they simply have not tried enough different strut / spring / coilover combinations to know good damping vs bad. The usual 'wow, your suspension is nice and sporty!' means that it's typically overdamped (like cheap coilovers), or have minimal bump travel. People go from blown or worn struts to new, overdamped units and think 'cool, this is how good suspension is supposed to feel', when you're probably not getting as comfy a ride as you should. It's a testament that people can run 500lb springs on Racecomp Tarmac 2 coilovers and still have a family-acceptable ride- yes, spring rate will determine overall stiffness, but damping will have a greater affect on perception of ride quality. On the other end of the spectrum, the Forester STi pinks (190lb spring rates, actually pretty soft) and KYB GR2 struts that were on my Forester XT when I bought it were a terrible combination- very jouncy and underdamped. That's actually why the guy sold it; his wife thought the car was too uncomfortable after he did the suspension work. And no, it definitely wasn't overdamped- those GR2s are soft, about equivalent to stock. And the springs are soft for the tall Forester ride height- lots of roll, not able to control things well, even with 25mm sways. Now I run 300lb springs on Koni struts, and it's great. Same with the iONs and Konis on the wife's LGT- she takes the baby around daily in it. No complaints... when it's dialed into the right settings to provide critical damping for the spring. Go higher or lower with the adjustment, and it feels 'funny', or harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdtollef1398 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 That's what makes them better- tailor to the springs you're using to achieve critical damping. They've got a comfortable compression damping curve as well, so they ride great. I'm sure Bilsteins ride great too, when paired with the right spring, but honestly, many people wouldn't know good suspension because they simply have not tried enough different strut / spring / coilover combinations to know good damping vs bad. The usual 'wow, your suspension is nice and sporty!' means that it's typically overdamped (like cheap coilovers), or have minimal bump travel. People go from blown or worn struts to new, overdamped units and think 'cool, this is how good suspension is supposed to feel', when you're probably not getting as comfy a ride as you should. It's a testament that people can run 500lb springs on Racecomp Tarmac 2 coilovers and still have a family-acceptable ride- yes, spring rate will determine overall stiffness, but damping will have a greater affect on perception of ride quality. On the other end of the spectrum, the Forester STi pinks (190lb spring rates, actually pretty soft) and KYB GR2 struts that were on my Forester XT when I bought it were a terrible combination- very jouncy and underdamped. That's actually why the guy sold it; his wife thought the car was too uncomfortable after he did the suspension work. And no, it definitely wasn't overdamped- those GR2s are soft, about equivalent to stock. And the springs are soft for the tall Forester ride height- lots of roll, not able to control things well, even with 25mm sways. Now I run 300lb springs on Koni struts, and it's great. Same with the iONs and Konis on the wife's LGT- she takes the baby around daily in it. No complaints... when it's dialed into the right settings to provide critical damping for the spring. Go higher or lower with the adjustment, and it feels 'funny', or harsh. Are you lowered or stock height still with the 300lb springs? Same question for your better half's car. I recently added 18 inch wheels and it feels soft in corners and more roll. I'm hoping konis matched to Eibachs is what the dr prescribes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauiJim Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Are you lowered or stock height still with the 300lb springs? Same question for your better half's car. I recently added 18 inch wheels and it feels soft in corners and more roll. I'm hoping konis matched to Eibachs is what the dr prescribes. LGT- slightly lowered, not enough to scrape anything, anywhere (no bumpers on curbs, or body on speed bumps). It's on 17x8 +50 STi Enkeis in the photos, with 245/40R17 Falken FK452s. iON springs are progressive in the front, and linear in the rear, which may help a bit with the smooth ride- the springs will compress a bit more easily in the front before firming up. Rates: Front: @1" compression: 228lb/in, @2" compression: 297lb/in Rear: (linear) 382lb/in Pics: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/MauiJim/IMG_9519_edit.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/MauiJim/IMG_9515.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/MauiJim/IMG_9522_edit.jpg http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/Spoonwacker/2009%20XXX%20Italian%20Car%20Show/MauiJim1.jpg For the Forester XT, there are no spring manufacturers that make a stiff (~300lb) spring that's close to ride height, so you're forced to either use STi springs (which really tuck the wheels, and make you look like a minivan- you have to run Impreza-sized tires as well), or Forester Pinks, which give a slight drop and minimal bump in rates. Or lowering springs + spacers, which give a good ride but no bump travel (= harshness on rough roads when you hit the bumpstops). There are one or two FXT-specific coilovers out there, but pretty pricey and longevity is questionable (at least compared to a standard strut/spring). I used 10" length, 2.5" ID Eibach ERS springs in 300lb for the front and 250lb rear; I need to bump it up to 350/300 at least, though. It rides nice now, but needs just a bit more stiffness. For reference, STis use 6"-7" Eibach springs to achieve a nice, semi-low drop. These springs are mounted on Impreza housings/ Koni inserts and Ground Control coilover sleeves. The 10" tall springs give me adjustability up to and above FXT stock ride height, using the Ground Control collars to adjust preload on the springs. In the photo, they're as low as they can go- about 2.5" lower than FXT stock - but the tires are huge, 225/55R17, so that makes the car look lower than it is. It's a monster truck compared to the LGT I can go up several inches higher from the height in the pic: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/MauiJim/IMG_9446.jpg Wheels are Ver7 STi 17x7.5, +53 offset, and aforementioned 225/55R17 Hankook Icebears (winter setup) Regarding your question- Konis and Eibachs should be a nice combo; keep the damping on the light side (1/2 turn from full soft, or less). Remember that Konis can handle spring rates up to ~800lbs in the front, and ~600lb in the rear IIRC, so think of that as you match the ~200-250lb springs to the 2 turns of damping adjustability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdtollef1398 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 LGT- slightly lowered, not enough to scrape anything, anywhere (no bumpers on curbs, or body on speed bumps). It's on 17x8 +50 STi Enkeis in the photos, with 245/40R17 Falken FK452s. iON springs are progressive in the front, and linear in the rear, which may help a bit with the smooth ride- the springs will compress a bit more easily in the front before firming up. Rates: Front: @1" compression: 228lb/in, @2" compression: 297lb/in Rear: (linear) 382lb/in Pics: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/MauiJim/IMG_9519_edit.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/MauiJim/IMG_9515.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/MauiJim/IMG_9522_edit.jpg http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/Spoonwacker/2009%20XXX%20Italian%20Car%20Show/MauiJim1.jpg For the Forester XT, there are no spring manufacturers that make a stiff (~300lb) spring that's close to ride height, so you're forced to either use STi springs (which really tuck the wheels, and make you look like a minivan- you have to run Impreza-sized tires as well), or Forester Pinks, which give a slight drop and minimal bump in rates. Or lowering springs + spacers, which give a good ride but no bump travel (= harshness on rough roads when you hit the bumpstops). There are one or two FXT-specific coilovers out there, but pretty pricey and longevity is questionable (at least compared to a standard strut/spring). I used 10" length, 2.5" ID Eibach ERS springs in 300lb for the front and 250lb rear; I need to bump it up to 350/300 at least, though. It rides nice now, but needs just a bit more stiffness. For reference, STis use 6"-7" Eibach springs to achieve a nice, semi-low drop. These springs are mounted on Impreza housings/ Koni inserts and Ground Control coilover sleeves. The 10" tall springs give me adjustability up to and above FXT stock ride height, using the Ground Control collars to adjust preload on the springs. In the photo, they're as low as they can go- about 2.5" lower than FXT stock - but the tires are huge, 225/55R17, so that makes the car look lower than it is. It's a monster truck compared to the LGT I can go up several inches higher from the height in the pic: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/MauiJim/IMG_9446.jpg Wheels are Ver7 STi 17x7.5, +53 offset, and aforementioned 225/55R17 Hankook Icebears (winter setup) Regarding your question- Konis and Eibachs should be a nice combo; keep the damping on the light side (1/2 turn from full soft, or less). Remember that Konis can handle spring rates up to ~800lbs in the front, and ~600lb in the rear IIRC, so think of that as you match the ~200-250lb springs to the 2 turns of damping adjustability. Great looking setup! Love the drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claw Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 One noobish question - how do you "pair" the struts to springs? I've got iON springs on stock struts, I'm expecting to get another 2-3 years out of them. After that it sounds like it'll be replacing the stock struts with Koni (inserts?) If there's a chance they'll become rare I might go ahead and upgrade the struts this summer as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauiJim Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 One noobish question - how do you "pair" the struts to springs? I've got iON springs on stock struts, I'm expecting to get another 2-3 years out of them. After that it sounds like it'll be replacing the stock struts with Koni (inserts?) If there's a chance they'll become rare I might go ahead and upgrade the struts this summer as well. It centers on the idea of critical damping- meaning that there is one exact point where the valving of the strut (the compression and rebound we talk about above) perfectly matches the spring rate, in conjunction with the weight of the car. Theoretically, this is where the ride is 'best' - though ride quality is very subjective, depending on the user's past experience. We talk about the stock suspension being 'underdamped' from the factory (this is the same as 'oversprung')- that is, they are a little bouncy, as the strut can't control the stock spring rate. By contrast, a stock STi is a little overdamped (undersprung), in keeping with the JDM tendency- the ride is firm, almost jarring, compared to the LGT. The strut is a little overvalved/overdamped for the spring, even though the STi spring is stiffer than the LGT. This lends itself to a sportier 'feel' in the STi. Some have complained about the Bilsteins being too harsh for stock springs- it's overdamped for the stock spring rate. If you were to pair a stiffer spring with the Bilstein's valving, you'll get a more compliant ride- the stiffer valving is better matched to a stiffer spring. I think that's why Bilsteins/Pinks or Bilsteins/iONs tend to have better reviews. Also, that's why Swift springs do well with (newer) stock struts- they're not a very aggressive spring rate (from what I recall), so they pair well with the stock strut valving. With Konis or any other adjustable strut, you can effectively match the valving of the strut to the spring that you use- meaning you can now choose a spring that gives you the ride quality you want (if you track, very stiff; if you daily drive, maybe somewhat sporty, or even stock rates). If you run a stock spring, turn the Koni's valving all the way 'down', and it's comfy. With my iONs, I have the valving about in the middle of the adjustment range- and it's nice and comfy. Now, you can turn the struts 'up' to get a sportier ride- but this is essentially creating an overdamped condition. It feels nice and stiff, but you may actually be decreasing overall traction- instead of a compliant ride where the tire is always in contact with the road, being overdamped means you can skitter across an uneven surface, as the heavy damping keeps the strut from responding to the imperfections in the road. Yes, you're nice and stiff, but traction is actually decreased compared to a setup at critical damping. But powersliding through turns is pretty fun... How would you describe the ride with your stock struts and iONs now? Does the car 'settle' quickly when you hit a big bump? Or does it take several oscillations for it to come back to a steady state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users LieutenantDan Posted February 4, 2011 Mega Users Share Posted February 4, 2011 Once my car gets a new shortblock (work starts next week) I'll be installing a set of JDM Rev-C Bilstein struts (reported to be the stiffest of all legacy Bilsteins) with a set of STi pink springs. I also have a Rallitek 19mm RSB which is on the car now. I got the chance to drive around with that before my engine went kaput. The rear end had gotten bouncy, it felt like it would dance around on tighter turns. I crawled under the car and could move the RSB with little effort. The endlinks had worn out allowing each side of the suspension to move more independently. The new RSB w/ new endlinks tightened it right up. Once my car gets going with the new suspension in about a two weeks I'll report the difference. The only other part I'm planning on getting are the RSB reinforcement brackets. I will then see if a FSB is in my future. Good luck getting your suspension set-up figured out. I just cruised the member classifieds and found what tickled my fancy. Hahaha, it's been a while since I purchased them. I checked the FS thread I purchased them from and they are in fact Rev A Bilsteins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 ^^^ JDM Rev C is the softest. It got successively softer with each revision, both regular JDM GT and JDM Spec B, respectively. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDawg Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 does anyone have koni's paired with H-techs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 does anyone have koni's paired with H-techs? I'm sure you could find a good setting with Konis. They are: 3.9k/219lb-in front, 5.5k/308lb-in rear. However they are progressive, so not sure what these numbers actually mean. Probably a high-side rating. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaynDoor Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 does anyone have koni's paired with H-techs? I did... rattled my teeth on the softest setting... I was embarassed to have people in the car... swapped out the H-Tech's for Eibach's... Waaaaay better for a DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauiJim Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I did... rattled my teeth on the softest setting... I was embarassed to have people in the car... swapped out the H-Tech's for Eibach's... Waaaaay better for a DD Did you try a medium setting on the Koni's with the H-techs? The right might have gotten better- published rates are 219fr/308rear, which should be a bit stiffer than stock. But even if it was perfectly-damped, you'd feel the difference in the spring rates for sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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