dr_sharp Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Weak brakes on the WRX, not the STi. All of your assessments are bench-racing wrong. What kind of car do you drive? Subaru WRX STi at Nurburgring 7:55 http://www.insideline.com/subaru/impreza-wrx-sti/2011/2011-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti-at-nurburgring.html Faster than the RS4, Panamera Turbo, etc, etc. http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html No Mustangs on that list? Why? Because they would be embarrassed. Surbaru hasn't fallen behind, C&D has failed. If I could, I would voteban you for your incompetence. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Maybe now that they keep posting record sales and growth, will invest some of that capital back into serious refreshments and upgrades. Was I the only one that thought "meh" when they talked about the FB Boxer, the first new engine in 20 years? And with this redesign, all they managed was to get rid of the timing belt, increase displacement from 150 to 152 cu in, 4lb-ft extra torque and marginally better mpg. I would not have touted this as "the first complete new engine from Subaru in 20 years". I am reading that right now out of Drive Magazine. I do agree with you however that there is a fair amount of bench racing here. That C&D article is not the end all, be all, nor would I be weary of putting an STi against a V6 Stang any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 nor would I be weary of putting an STi against a V6 Stang any day. Amen to that. Anyone who truly believes otherwise should be put in a mental hospital. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Weak brakes on the WRX, not the STi. All of your assessments are bench-racing wrong. What kind of car do you drive? Subaru WRX STi at Nurburgring 7:55 http://www.insideline.com/subaru/impreza-wrx-sti/2011/2011-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti-at-nurburgring.html Faster than the RS4, Panamera Turbo, etc, etc. http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html No Mustangs on that list? Why? Because they would be embarrassed. Surbaru hasn't fallen behind, C&D has failed. If I could, I would voteban you for your incompetence. Here is a fair question. The Subie in those links ... rolled off the dealer floor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I don't think so. There was some discrepancy that made everyone waive red flags. I'll have to read right quick. But IIRC, it wasn't a big thing (IMO). lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 The C&D article in question pretty much used cars that rolled off the dealer lot, with options here and there. I do think it is not fair to equip a Mustang GT with the Brembo package and stickier tires while not doing the same with the competition. I do not know what the V6 Mustang comes stock in terms of rubber vs the WRX and STi and too lazy to look it up. Anyone know how the tires compare? And yes, I do agree that familiarity with Subaru/awd does play a major role for the drivers. We can argue back and forth a LOT, but the fact is those are the times they got and it will be used as canon fodder by people however they see fit. If such an article gives Subie owners pause and makes them question their choice of car, then I think they have other issues to deal with. Even with those times I would still not choose a V6 Mustang over an STi or even WRX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Power6 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 The results are what they are, the Subies just don't have what it takes on the track. Weak brakes on the WRX (like most all other Subarus) held it back, along with vague steering, under steer, and too much body roll. The STI had brakes that work at least, but not much improvement beyond the WRX in the power delivery, or handling department. Subaru has fallen behind, you can either recognize the problem or bury your head in the sand and pretend otherwise. Nice, some rational thought in this thread! You have to admit, at least Car and Driver has brought some objectivity with this Lightning Lap thing. I'm sure owners are hurt when the Cobalt SS beats the Evo MR (STI *still* has yet to catch the turbo 'balt) or the Mustang trumps the STI banging off a speed limiter. I think Subaru has certainly fallen behind. The WRX in 02 was compared to Audis and BMWs. In 04 the STI was the best thing since sliced bread even if the Evo was a little faster. The LGT was awesome in 05. And here we are in 2011, with the same motors, same brakes, same transmission, same Legacy chassis with a new rear suspension. The WRX got summer tires and quite a bit more HP, but the STI and LGT are like 15 more than 5 years ago. Subaru got passed by. Its not the end of the world, I bought my WRX for practicality and AWD as well, but its not the revelation it once was. I am not sure why that is? Did Subaru blow their R&D load? Did the US automakers really come out in better shape from bankruptcy and near bankruptcy? The 2011 WRX/STI are better than ever, but all Subaru has done is widen the track and tires, and stiffen the STI to where it should have been since 08. The LGT is just a niche model of the Legacy now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 OK, if you still believe C&D after posting those ridiculous times, here's what they said: " The car starts with the suspension from the improved-for-2011 WRX STI—it’s 5 mm lower than the 2010 model, with 1-mm-thicker front and rear anti-roll bars, higher-rate springs all around, stiffer rear-subframe bushings, and new front-suspension pillow-ball bushings. The engine is the Japanese-market STI spec.c’s, a 2.0-liter turbocharged boxer-four that’s been given the larger turbo from the R205, another Japanese special-edition STI model. It’s now putting out a claimed 320 hp, which makes the time that much more impressive when compared with the Panamera’s 500 turbocharged ponies (although the Porsche is surely carrying around a few hundred extra pounds). The R205 also donates six-piston front brakes and a front strut-tower brace; it features a flexible center portion that allows vertical motion but maintains lateral stiffness. Weight is saved through the use of an aluminum hood from the spec.c, unique aluminum front fenders, the spec.c’s smaller battery, and the deletion of the radio as in the R205 and spec.c. Extra aero parts specific to this car include a full undertray, a front-lip extension tacked onto the R205’s lower spoiler, and a Gurney flap added—taped, really—to the rear at Mäkinen’s request. (The car was getting a bit out of shape without it in the high-speed sections.) A full roll cage and race buckets fitted with a five-point harness for the driver and a four-point for the passenger make things safe." So, far from stock. There's a JDM STi (280hp instead of 300hp) that did it in 8:24. There's still no weaker cars that have done it quicker. Only 4 seconds slower than the '10 Camero SS which has 422hp! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Reading some people's posts I'm actually feeling a bit better. I can't wait to run into an "anxious" V6 mustang driver in the real world. C&D's crappy reviews won't stop me from blowing the doors of a stock GT - in any format. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 What is funny about the V6 Mustang is ... when the last gen GT came out and the Nissan 350z had the same HP rating out of the 3.5 liter V6, it was still called rice left and right on the Ford boards I visited. Overworked engine, crappy powerband, where is the torque, there is no replacement blah blah blah. Here we are a few years later and Ford is doing the same thing 300hp out of a 3.5 liter V6. Don't hear no Mustang owner complaining now, except for those with the 4.6 feeling a bit butthurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 And one last post before I stop spamming this thread: http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/top_gear_track.html A Rouch Mustang only beat a stock '07 STi by 0.2 seconds on Top Gear. Sorry for the triple post. Enjoy. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Reading some people's posts I'm actually feeling a bit better. I can't wait to run into an "anxious" V6 mustang driver in the real world. C&D's crappy reviews won't stop me from blowing the doors of a stock GT - in any format. For sure there will be hoards of Mustang drivers who think, after reading that article they can belittle us poor Legacy drivers from the lights. Bring it on ! Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Well, I hope rao has his answer. The answer is it depends on who you ask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 And one last post before I stop spamming this thread: http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/top_gear_track.html A Rouch Mustang only beat a stock '07 STi by 0.2 seconds on Top Gear. Sorry for the triple post. Enjoy. Unpossible, the BBC is an independent corporation, unswayed by advertisers money. How could they have got it so wrong Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Unpossible, the BBC is an independent corporation, unswayed by advertisers money. How could they have got it so wrong Point - PhilT. But at least you recognize that. Others in this thread seem so incompetent that they wouldn't know that BBC is biased. That why I posted it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urfsin Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 ... C&D's crappy reviews won't stop me from blowing the doors of a stock GT - in any format. So wait...are you saying that you think you could take a 2011 Mustang GT? I hope you have at least 350 HP at the wheels or you will be choking on his exhaust. Look, I like Subaru's a lot. I own 2 and will probably own more down the road. The fact of the matter is that Ford spent a $hit ton of money on R&D on the new engines and have tweaked the Mustang handling to make it work on a road course. At the end of the day, the new Mustangs are better performance cars than the WRX, STI and yes...even the mighty LGT Spec B. Will the mustang handle trips to the local ski resort? No. Can you load up your family and gear to go camping with it? No! The Subies still have their place in the automotive market place and I still think they are good cars. It's just that the competition has caught up and passed the mighty STI. Slide It Sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 So wait...are you saying that you think you could take a 2011 Mustang GT? I hope you have at least 350 HP at the wheels or you will be choking on his exhaust. Check Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urfsin Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 And one last post before I stop spamming this thread: http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/top_gear_track.html A Rouch Mustang only beat a stock '07 STi by 0.2 seconds on Top Gear. Sorry for the triple post. Enjoy. Well, that does'nt prove too much. Those are older cars, we are talking about MY2011 no? Things are quite different with the new cars. Slide It Sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 No, I guess I was comparing to older model years. Didn't know that 2011 had that much more power. Well, I will avoid 2011 GTs! Seriously though... I'm pretty level headed as I'm sure most of you are as well. Nobody can seriously believe that the V6 can take the STi. I can take - albeit with a grain of salt - that the GT can take the STi... but the V6? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urfsin Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Check Good man! Slide It Sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urfsin Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 No, I guess I was comparing to older model years. Didn't know that 2011 had that much more power. Well, I will avoid 2011 GTs! Wait, are you telling me you did'nt know the Mustang went through a major redesign? Ok, fair enough. The new GT has a 5.0 V8 with 412 HP. The V6 has 305 HP (and weighs about the same as an STI) Slide It Sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Well, that does'nt prove too much. Those are older cars, we are talking about MY2011 no? Things are quite different with the new cars. You are correct, but the '11 STi is supposedly significantly stiffer and better on the track. The '11 GT has pretty much the same power as the one in this test so will likely be about the same around a track - and thats assuming that Ford OEM can match Rouch's suspension setup. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urfsin Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 The new Mustangs are WORLDS better in power and handling than just a few years ago. They are legit performance cars now. Slide It Sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I will believe the GT can hold its own. I will not believe the V6 can beat the STi. The STi is just too much. OK, just to prove that I'm not a fanboy I will do the following: Within the next week, I will go to the Ford dealer and test drive an '11 V6 mustang. I've driven many STi's, and a couple of stage 2 legacys, including my own. I will try not to be biased. What tires are on the V6? RE050s? RE070s? That makes a world of difference on a track. I'm going to make the Ford salesman hate me. I mite even take video. Eat your heart out C&D lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urfsin Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 ^^ Try and test drive one with the "Track Pack" or "Performance Pack". It has the GT suspension, tires, brakes, shorter final drive ratio and other small bits. It's the package they used on the C&D test. The base V6 is much softer and more of a street cruiser. Slide It Sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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