kfabiano Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I would just like to point out that the Toyota Motor Corporation owns about 16.5% of Fuji Heavy Industries, Subaru's parent company. It's not a question of "if" Toyota starts showing some real interest in Subaru, it's "when." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 When they do they'll make everything a hybrid with a CVT and kill the H4 to be replaced by the ubiquitous 2.4L I4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natedog Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 eletric subaru ha now i saw a camary and leggy its gone family because thats the market. if you have a kid and its tax time $! no kid - $ whos going to buy a new camau ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted January 17, 2011 I Donated Share Posted January 17, 2011 eletric subaru ha now i saw a camary and leggy its gone family because thats the market. if you have a kid and its tax time $! no kid - $ whos going to buy a new camau ... What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I would just like to point out that the Toyota Motor Corporation owns about 16.5% of Fuji Heavy Industries, Subaru's parent company. It's not a question of "if" Toyota starts showing some real interest in Subaru, it's "when." Toyota doesn't even have a member on FHI's board. FHI has had partial ownership by Nissan, then GM, and now Toyota. It's nothing new. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordhowe Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Buddy of mine was reading an article about the ft86 project and in the article it mentioned that Toyota and Subaru were looking at doing joint production and making the TriBeCa a rebranded highlander. Anyone heard about this? I can't put into words how much I don't want Toyota having it's hands in Subaru. Their cars and production methods are absolute junk. It will start with tribecas being highlanders and legacy being a camry and the interior quality taking a dump. Next will be 170 hp na fwd wrx and turbos and flat 4s will be gone. I really hope this ft86 project fails horribly and nips this issue in the bud right out of the gate. I highly doubt that's going to be the case if Toyota and Subaru were to join forces. and by the way, Toyota and their production qualities are not junk and if you think that way you are one of the few. this is coming from me who have been driving subarus all of my life and also own several toyotas now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 It is said that only the few have the balls to tell the truth. So I'll start by saying Toyota is now complete & utter garbage. This is coming from someone that has recently driven both a 2010 Camry & Corolla in the span of a week. The steering in the Corolla was totally un-involving at all & it felt like I wasn't even connected to the road. It got great mpg (dash displayed 42 hwy) & I only had to fill up once in 600 miles but the rest of the car was whack. The driver's space was cramped & the steering wheel was way too small. The trunk was too small. Passenger's space was cramped & so was the back seating. NOT a good DD. The Camry. Hah, where do I start? Didn't have a V6 available so we got stuck with the 4. First off, this car's ONLY saving grace is it's size. It took SLOW corners like ass & it accelerated like it kept trying to pull away from a magnet. The steering feel was worse than the Corolla, which I thought wasn't going to happen due to my assumption that the Camry was a more upscale car. Toyota just isn't a good brand like it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Do you think I'd be attracted to a stripped down WRX with no amenities in the name of performance? No. Well fine, I was going to offer you a great deal on a limited edition STi, but forget it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanT55 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebondragon87 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 It is said that only the few have the balls to tell the truth. So I'll start by saying Toyota is now complete & utter garbage. This is coming from someone that has recently driven both a 2010 Camry & Corolla in the span of a week. The steering in the Corolla was totally un-involving at all & it felt like I wasn't even connected to the road. It got great mpg (dash displayed 42 hwy) & I only had to fill up once in 600 miles but the rest of the car was whack. The driver's space was cramped & the steering wheel was way too small. The trunk was too small. Passenger's space was cramped & so was the back seating. NOT a good DD. The Camry. Hah, where do I start? Didn't have a V6 available so we got stuck with the 4. First off, this car's ONLY saving grace is it's size. It took SLOW corners like ass & it accelerated like it kept trying to pull away from a magnet. The steering feel was worse than the Corolla, which I thought wasn't going to happen due to my assumption that the Camry was a more upscale car. Toyota just isn't a good brand like it used to be. I'll get this out of the way first, I love my Spec B. I have also driven every Toyota and Subaru made since atleast 1990. I am a Subaru Master tech and a Toyota Expert tech First off you are comparing apples to oranges. The corolla and camry's main prupose is economy. Not handling. Second, Subaru could learn alot from Toyota about interiors, not in layout but in quality. I work for Subaru as a Tech and do you know what subaru tells anyone who bought an 09+ Forrester with its hellacious hatch rattle? "o well". Subaru interior quality is junk. But that is to be expected because they are a low end manufacturer. I worked for Toyota as a tech for 5 years and yes I will agree that their new cars are not as good as the 90's to early 2000's but they are still damn good and extremely damn realiable. Subaru however is not so much. I know Subaru fans are afraid of losing the boxer engine but if it helps the company grow they will get rid of it. Toyota's 3.5L and 2.4 will run circles around The NA 2.5 h6 3.0 or 3.6 all day in both power and gas milage. Sorry for the long rant but this thread is obscene. I have read tons of arcticles on the FT86 and they can't seem to decide on anthing so i doubt it will really happen. But so many are throwing a fit over the only company that could really teach Subaru something. I mean really? Maybe GM will buy out Subaru or VW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 It is said that only the few have the balls to tell the truth. So I'll start by saying Toyota is now complete & utter garbage. This is coming from someone that has recently driven both a 2010 Camry & Corolla in the span of a week. The steering in the Corolla was totally un-involving at all & it felt like I wasn't even connected to the road. It got great mpg (dash displayed 42 hwy) & I only had to fill up once in 600 miles but the rest of the car was whack. The driver's space was cramped & the steering wheel was way too small. The trunk was too small. Passenger's space was cramped & so was the back seating. NOT a good DD. The Camry. Hah, where do I start? Didn't have a V6 available so we got stuck with the 4. First off, this car's ONLY saving grace is it's size. It took SLOW corners like ass & it accelerated like it kept trying to pull away from a magnet. The steering feel was worse than the Corolla, which I thought wasn't going to happen due to my assumption that the Camry was a more upscale car. Toyota just isn't a good brand like it used to be. About the only vehicles Toyota makes right now that I find desirable are their trucks, and traditional SUV's like the Land Cruiser and 4Runner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxl1972 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 This is a hoot! I really enjoyed reading everyone's comments. I have only driven one Toyota, it was a rental while our Colorado was being serviced by the idiots who broke it. Anyway, it was horrible. I lived in Vermont at the time and it was January. The thing felt like a kite in any kind of wind, and forget trying to drive it over 60 with wind. Not to mention I had to put it in nuetral and push it out of my driveway as it kept getting stuck on the ice. If you call that decent, then more power to you. Once I got rid of my GM vehicle, and got my Subaru, my problems went away. I don't expect 50K dollar materials in a 20K dollar car, it just does not work that way. I am quite happy with what I have with my Legacy. It has been very reliable with ample power and gas effeciency ( I have hit 32mpg with it). Everyone has a right to their opinions and be loyal to the company of their choosing. Hopefully, Subaru will learn from Toyota, but still remain unique. That's what we can hope for. Just my 2 cents...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LGTLtd Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Being someone who likes to tinker with machines, they appeal to me. Subaru isn't the best brand in the universe but I'm going to defend it to some degree because they're not all that bad. One of Subaru's guiding principles back before the legacy, was they were affordable cars you could work on. That was back in the 70's and most of the 80's. When you work on a subaru you can tell some engineer designed the part to complete the job and for the most part to be serviceable as well. That's the last glimmer of the older subaru standards shining through from the past. Lots of of the manufactures, toyota included, you get the feeling that someone just figured out the absolute cheapest way to make a part and assemble with out much thought at all of down the road. The up side is toyotas are very cost competitive and the make a decent profit as well. The stats for the % of older subarus on the road speak for themselves. Not every consumer notices or cares about these things but a small group does. All I need now is a hill holder and a center passing light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vr4Legacy Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 This thread is amusing at best. There is no discussion of mergers, simply the fact the Toyota now owns part of Subaru, nothing more. As mentioned others have owned shares in the past, I think the only thing we saw from that was those companies borrowing Subaru technology that worked (i.e. Saab 9.3x) and not so much Subaru being forced to used poor technology from the other. Also as mentioned, Subaru is a for profit company in a competitive industry, they need every advantage they can get. Most of what I have heard from the FT-86 project is that toyota is funding it and Subaru is designing the powertrain and suspension, hence keeping the performance. Leaving each to design the exterior. To the Highlander comments, bring it. The Tribeca is ugly, and undersized. The New Gen outback can haul as much, the 3rd row seating is amuzing at best. I think Toyota will probably ask Subaru, again, to design an AWD powertrain and lend them the interior. Subaru can give it a facelift. Who cares if they compete, at best a new tribeca will win over non-toyota competition, at worst people will buy the highlander and the tribeca will fail with minimal R&D $$ from Subaru. I love my LGT for what it is, a $30k performance sedan. I don't expect it to compete with my buddy's RS4, but I do expect it to blow away any other $30k sedan out there. I don't need the amenities, nor do I expect them at a $30k point. Now if I were paying $50k for it, I'd expect it to have the quality interior to match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LGTLtd Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Yes, I think everyone can agree that the current Tribeca is an answer to a question that was never asked. They want to sell a larger "premium package", but nobody wants to pay that much for a subaru (sub)minivan. They would have been much better off making it along the outback/forester lines and gone with the whole outdoors extreme marketing. All road and ready to play... Have a larger vehicle with two trims, one utilitarian (hose it out interior) and one with a nicer interior. They wouldn't loose any tribeca customers and they could actually sell up from the "Outback II" crowd. All I need now is a hill holder and a center passing light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vr4Legacy Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 ah screw it, bring back the damn Baja and bolt some seats in like the Brat. 3rd row seating and utilitarian in one package!! And there's not much to redesign, just a few body panels..... one can only dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LGTLtd Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Ever see the photoshop of the "BRAT" made on the Impreza platform? I would have bought two of them if subaru had the balls to make it... What the hell was subaru thinking when they based the BAJA on the generation of the outback they were in the process of replacing?? All I need now is a hill holder and a center passing light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vr4Legacy Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 they were "thinking" nobody will buy a two seater car, the impreza doesn't offer room to put an actual bed on, so that brings us to the legacy/outback. Replacing or not, it's just body panels in the end, so they would have just upgraded to the new legacy.... but I would much rather have a true Brat too... Sti with a bed.... El Camino ain't got Sh!t on me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 First off you are comparing apples to oranges. The corolla and camry's main prupose is economy. Not handling. I was commenting on Corolla & Camry's overall usefulness as cars. Another weakness that they have is that they're too tall. (Now the Legacy has picked up this trait.) Just TRY passing across those tall bridges going up i95-N from the south in one of them. I promise it will scare the s**t out of you ('scuse my french). I felt like I was going to get blown off of them by the wind. Second, Subaru could learn alot from Toyota about interiors, not in layout but in quality. I'll admit this. The plastics that they use seem to be really tough. The seats were a little nice but really small. (Camry was fine, Corolla was far to small.) I know Subaru fans are afraid of losing the boxer engine but if it helps the company grow they will get rid of it. Toyota's 3.5L and 2.4 will run circles around The NA 2.5 h6 3.0 or 3.6 all day in both power and gas milage. A comparison of engines? I mean if we're looking at just power output... Toyota vs Subaru (4 cylinders): 2AR-FE. 179hp@6000rpm & 171ft-lbs@4100rpm. EJ254. 173hp@6000rpm & 170ft-lbs@4400rpm. These two engines produce roughly the same power. Reliability goes to the Toyota though. Toyota vs Subaru (6 cylinders): 2GR-FE. 275hp@6200rpm & 257ft-lbs@4700rpm. (runs on 87 so I suspect that this is direct injected.) Lexus versions have 300+hp. EZ36D. 256hp@6000rpm & 244ft-lbs@4400rpm. Runs on 91 octane. It's obvious to see that the Toyota is a monster here. Hard to say who wins on reliability as I haven't found anything to be screwy with either engine. In terms of gas mileage, I'd have to also agree with you as AWD isn't really the best application for good mpgs. If Subaru did produce FWD in their vehicles, we'd likely see similar mpg #s. Is Subaru getting rid of the EJ? Yeah. After 20 years, they're retiring that engine & using the FB type, which is supposedly direct injected. Will they get rid of the boxer engine in general? Not any time soon. After all, it isn't a rotary. But so many are throwing a fit over the only company that could really teach Subaru something. I mean really? Maybe GM will buy out Subaru or VW. Toyota can teach Subaru how to build more reliable engines & better interiors. That would be a plus. They can keep the styling to themselves. Subarus are already atrocious as they are. At this point, I find a 2010 Corolla more handsome than a 2010 Impreza, even though both aren't really good looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Toyota can teach Subaru how to build more reliable engines & better interiors. Yes I am sure Subaru would benefit learning from Toyota the proper way to do a recall Do you have empirical data to suggest the discrepancy in reliability between the H4 and I4? What gets me is people suggesting that maybe Subaru should consider dropping the Boxer and coming up with realtime awd. It is obvious the car is not meeting your needs and you want something else, I am not suggesting Subaru stop improving, but these propositions involve fundamentally changing the niche brand from what it is. Great, you want to Toyotafy one of the last companies on this planet that dares to be different. Instead of moving on to something that fits your needs better, you hope a company will adapt to your needs. Guess what, Subaru is doing better than ever in terms of sales, the momentum is not showing any signs of slowing down and, again, while I am not proposing complacency, it is perfectly clear there is a market and demand for what they offer. So go buy a perfectly average unexciting Toyota appliance and leave it be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted January 19, 2011 I Donated Share Posted January 19, 2011 Great, you want to Toyotafy one of the last companies on this planet that dares to be different. Instead of moving on to something that fits your needs better, you hope a company will adapt to your needs. Guess what, Subaru is doing better than ever in terms of sales, the momentum is not showing any signs of slowing down and, again, while I am not proposing complacency, it is perfectly clear there is a market and demand for what they offer. Subaru is doing better than ever because they decided to Toyotafy the Legacy (bigger, CVT), the Outback (bigger, CVT, more SUV-like), and the Impreza (more pedestrian styling -- although I like the styling). Just sayin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Yes I am sure Subaru would benefit learning from Toyota the proper way to do a recall Oh no, I don't mean change the actual engine design, I mean Toyota should teach Subaru how to implement better engine material. The engine would still be a Subaru but with 90's Toyota reliability. You know, let Subaru look through Toyota's R&D files of the past.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted January 19, 2011 I Donated Share Posted January 19, 2011 Yeah, it would be nice to have some headgaskets that actually lasted the life of the engine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David E Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 They sell a 3-row legacy wagon overseas. Saw one on a recent trip. Guess it would kill whatever Tribeca sales exist. We have owned 5 Subies, but couldn't bring ourselves to buy a Tribeca when we needed the 3rd row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Subaru is doing better than ever because they decided to Toyotafy the Legacy (bigger, CVT), the Outback (bigger, CVT, more SUV-like), and the Impreza (more pedestrian styling -- although I like the styling). Just sayin'... As long as it's smooth and doesn't have a clutch, Americans don't care what type of transmission it is, so the CVT argument holds little water. Subaru's ascension was fueled by rising prices as well, the Forester was leading the pack in terms of sales, before the new gen LGT was out. Also, the new gen Legacy is such a great success because the 4th gen is barely larger than a Honda Civic or a 97 Accord. It clearly did not meet the demands of the sedan size which best sells in the US, which is the Camry, Corolla, etc. Don't see much in the way of Toyotafy-ing the Outback, it is a very nice improvement over the previous gen. I won't argue that "too niche" means small market share so if you want to get more customers you have to appeal to the lowest denominator. What I am saying is there is a limit and as much as I don't want to bring politics into this or sound like a kid feeling his toys being taken away from him, some people argue like those liberals pushing for the government to raise their kids or conservatives their Christian agenda. If something isn't working out for you, move on. It's a free country and the choices are plenty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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