red beast Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 yes i use that pipeline but, at 51 mpg+ it's at half the rate you do. when do you change your oil? every 3,500-5,000 miles? the prius is 10,000 miles how often are you going to do a brake job? the prius is 80,000-90,000 miles the prius doesn't use much more mined materials than anybody else's car. the only real difference is the traction battery. and the environment report on the Canada mine is universally known as "bullshit". the traction battery will go well over 200,000 miles. for me thats 19 years. when the battery dies Toyota buys it back and recycles it. they have been doing this since they first made them. your car and mine is made from steel. what kind of world trip do you think that takes; either mined or recycled. recycled goes to china to just come back again. more "plastic parts on the prius are recyclable that your Subaru. I'm not and environmentalist. i chose to pay Toyota a little more instead of giving to the oil companies. a lot of people think paying for a lot of gas is "insufferable". will see what happens when it goes to $4.00/gal. I'm sure people will be partying in the streets. i drive in stop and go traffic to get to work. what good is a 500hp car when i can only go 10-40 mph? i don't have any stock in your company. i don't care. my car is good for my situation. i can't impove the pickup but, i can impove it's handling. they make body stiffeners, rear sway, lowering springs, and with better tires it will make a difference. hybrids and electric's are a start to a new age for automobiles. they will get better and better as time goes on. try not to lag to far behind with your "gas guzzlers". oh! thats right, you can go faster. i wave at you as i drive by the gas station to each his own p.s.- you will need that 401k to pay for the gas ^ You still use that gasoline, so your Prius is still consuming the stuff. Your car just happens to also use a lot of materials that have to be mined through not so environmentally friendly methods too. Furthermore, compared to hard rock mining for minerals and hauling ore; oil drilling, pumping, and shipping is super cheap from an energy standpoint. Most oil and gas is shipped via pipeline, you can't do that with rocks. I will continue to compare a Prius to a Corolla as both are front wheel drive shit boxes that are insufferable to drive, but do get good mileage. One of them manages this with far less complexity and far less money spent. You can delude yourself into some sort of smug environmental superiority if you must in order to compensate for driving a car that kills your soul and turns you into a lemming. Whatever helps you sleep at night. As for the price of fuel rising, well frankly it helps my industry immensely since it drives overland freight movement to the rails (where it belongs anyway) and away from trucks. Guess I better up my 401K even more and make sure to buy more company stock since Berkshire Hathaway owns both a RR to haul all that freight, and utilities to supply all that electricity for all the plug in hybrid drivers. Hooray! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I would buy another Subaru red beast. Mine is currently getting 24 -26 mpg. Yes, that's not great, but I'm happy with it. I also only fill up my tank every 12-14 days as well. And my 06 wagon is low slung & sexy looking. Does Toyota have anything to fit that category? I think not.... Thank you penguin, very nicely put!! :-) ^^^you live in Florida. and you have awd? you need it less than i do. i was waiting for Subaru to use their hybrid system they had 5 years ago. i didn't want to wait any longer plus being in NJ there is no advantage having awd because the lack of any "real" snow. the roads do get plowed. and I'm still running on stock all season which could be upgraded for better traction. when Subaru finally sells their hybrid Toyota will have the prius c which is to get around 80 mpg, double what was predicted for the awd Subaru hybrid years ago. at nasioc everybody would say that the awd will zip through highway puddles better than fwd or rear. total crap. i did it with the prius last summer. the first time is was "white knuckled" but, it went through just as the Subaru's did, maybe even better because the tire aren't as wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxl1972 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 ^^^you live in Florida. and you have awd? you need it less than i do. i was waiting for Subaru to use their hybrid system they had 5 years ago. i didn't want to wait any longer plus being in NJ there is no advantage having awd because the lack of any "real" snow. the roads do get plowed. and I'm still running on stock all season which could be upgraded for better traction. when Subaru finally sells their hybrid Toyota will have the prius c which is to get around 80 mpg, double what was predicted for the awd Subaru hybrid years ago. at nasioc everybody would say that the awd will zip through highway puddles better than fwd or rear. total crap. i did it with the prius last summer. the first time is was "white knuckled" but, it went through just as the Subaru's did, maybe even better because the tire aren't as wide. Yeah, but does Toyota have anything low slung and sexy? I've checked out the website and found nothing low slung or sexy as my 06 wagon. And, can you get 5 large siutcases and 5 people into your Prius? And I just can not bring myself to buy any hybrid, no matter who the manufacturer is. I firmly believe the technology is there for a decent hybrid, no manufacturer is ready to produce due to cost (or so I've heard). And I moved from Vermont last year, I brought my car with me. Why would I get rid of it just because I live some where warmer? This car will have to die first. The move took 3 days and I only had to fill up twice. I was getting a respectable 30-31 on the drive down and that was at 75mph. And hands down, my subie will smoke your prius in snow or rain. I have relatives in NJ. Everybody tends to slow down in rain, except the subie drivers I noticed. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Yeah, but does Toyota have anything low slung and sexy? I've checked out the website and found nothing low slung or sexy as my 06 wagon. And, can you get 5 large suitcases and 5 people into your Prius? And I just can not bring myself to buy any hybrid, no matter who the manufacturer is. I firmly believe the technology is there for a decent hybrid, no manufacturer is ready to produce due to cost (or so I've heard). And I moved from Vermont last year, I brought my car with me. Why would I get rid of it just because I live some where warmer? This car will have to die first. The move took 3 days and I only had to fill up twice. I was getting a respectable 30-31 on the drive down and that was at 75mph. And hands down, my subie will smoke your prius in snow or rain. I have relatives in NJ. Everybody tends to slow down in rain, except the subie drivers I noticed. Why is that? yes the prius is low slung. for aerodynamics. sexy is highly subjective. the prius will hold 5 people. i never tried to put 5 suitcases in the hatch. I'm sure i could get 4. I'll let the passengers hold the 5th. the new prius v coming out can but, it's slower than the gen 3 prius. i wouldn't buy it nor would many priuschatters. if i moved i wouldn't have sold it either especially if i liked it. they last time i drove to Atlantic city i got 61 mpg doing the speed limit of 55 & 65. when on the highway i notice my car can do 65 mph like all the others. if you have a 2.5na it won't really "smoke" it that bad. when i first got my prius my morning commute, stop and go traffic, consisted of people cuttting me off. it took me about 2 weeks with power mode to teach them never to do it again. subie drivers think they are invincible with awd until they learn that the tires are what matter or they smash up their cars. go look around at nasioc and read the "i had an accident" threads. no car is perfect, not mine, not yours. the only disadvantage the prius really has is the pickup, which is adequate, and the handling, which can be improved with aftermarket parts. people need to stop hating on hybrids because they ain't going away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 yes i use that pipeline but, at 51 mpg+ it's at half the rate you do. when do you change your oil? every 3,500-5,000 miles? the prius is 10,000 miles how often are you going to do a brake job? the prius is 80,000-90,000 miles the prius doesn't use much more mined materials than anybody else's car. the only real difference is the traction battery. and the environment report on the Canada mine is universally known as "bullshit". the traction battery will go well over 200,000 miles. for me thats 19 years. when the battery dies Toyota buys it back and recycles it. they have been doing this since they first made them. your car and mine is made from steel. what kind of world trip do you think that takes; either mined or recycled. recycled goes to china to just come back again. more "plastic parts on the prius are recyclable that your Subaru. I'm not and environmentalist. i chose to pay Toyota a little more instead of giving to the oil companies. a lot of people think paying for a lot of gas is "insufferable". will see what happens when it goes to $4.00/gal. I'm sure people will be partying in the streets. i drive in stop and go traffic to get to work. what good is a 500hp car when i can only go 10-40 mph? i don't have any stock in your company. i don't care. my car is good for my situation. i can't impove the pickup but, i can impove it's handling. they make body stiffeners, rear sway, lowering springs, and with better tires it will make a difference. hybrids and electric's are a start to a new age for automobiles. they will get better and better as time goes on. try not to lag to far behind with your "gas guzzlers". oh! thats right, you can go faster. i wave at you as i drive by the gas station to each his own p.s.- you will need that 401k to pay for the gas I don't drive in stop and go traffic except for maybe once or twice a month. I typically drive to work 24 miles one way, and never touch my brakes except to slow down for my turn off, so my brakes will most likely last longer than yours. Once I get to work I will usually be at work for about 30-36 hours until I return, then I will usually be off for about 24-36 hours. So I don't put in a lot of miles and can afford to drive a "gas guzzler". If I am turning over faster on trips, then I am making a lot more money and can still afford the gas guzzler if needs be. I can afford to keep it and buy something more fuel efficient at some point too. I also don't drive a Subaru, I drive a Toyota Tundra now since Subarus and Priuseseseses (what is the plural form of this homo-ish word?) have no ground clearance to speak of and don't have real 4 wheel drive systems with a low range transfer case. Plus throwing dead animals in the trunk of a car makes a mess, just ask the last rental car agency I used the last time a buddy and me went hunting out of state. I get even worse mileage than you thought, although not a whole hell of a lot worse than my old LGT got. So, for my use a Hybrid has zero benefits over a less complex turbodiesel sedan (likely my next choice once the truck is paid for). Plus since I live at a higher altitude the forced induction diesel will be nice for all the elevation changes I deal with. I can also buy something reasonably entertaining to drive in a turbodiesel, something I can't say for the Prius. Now I'll admit that I haven't driven the current generation Prius but I drove and sold a shit load of the previous gen Prius so I am familiar with the breed. I find them to be insufferable to drive in anything but stop and go driving. Get behind the wheel of one in the Black Hills, or Big Horns on what could be a fun road and you will contemplate suicide; as you remain stuck behind tourists pulling 5th wheel campers for lack of enough power to pass them in the straits. Oh wait once you have depleted your battery climbing the long grades into the mountains, and have lost quite a bit of power from an already puny gasoline engine the people pulling the campers will be stuck behind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Such a ground-breaking concept that your needs and opinions don't apply to everyone (talking about those preaching/defending the Prius). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted January 26, 2011 I Donated Share Posted January 26, 2011 Red Beast, I have some math for you. A base Corolla is $16,250 and gets 35mpg highway according to the EPA. A base Prius is $21,650 and gets 48mpg highway. (Yes, I know EPA mileage is conservative, but that is true for both cars. Let's assume both get similar amounts more than the EPA says.) Now, let's assume gas is $4 a gallon, which it will be later this year by all accounts. So the Prius costs 8.3333 cents per mile to fill up at the EPA rate, and the Corolla costs 11.4286 cents per mile. There's a $5400 price difference between the two MSRPs, so in order for a Pruis to make sense, it will need to save $5400 in fuel. I just calculated that out. It does it after 174,461 miles. Are you planning to keep your Prius for 175k mi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeondacouch Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 And, here's some math for you: A certified used Camry V6 that still gets 30hwy is less than $15,000 and is much nicer than either of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways the Seven Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Hybrids and the people that buy them are a joke. Hop your happy ass on a bus or a bike if you're so worried about MPG or the environment. -Brandon 2007 Chevrolet Suburban LT3 1981 Chevrolet C10 LWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Actually those that are so extremely concerned about the human footprint should take it to the final logical conclusion and off themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways the Seven Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Actually those that are so extremely concerned about the human footprint should take it to the final logical conclusion and off themselves. Even better. -Brandon 2007 Chevrolet Suburban LT3 1981 Chevrolet C10 LWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 More gas for us that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I'm actually thankful for the hybrid drivers because they are beta testing and supporting early technology for the rest of us. Remember when the iPhone first came out, it had no apps, couldn't install any apps, was EDGE only, 4 and 8 GB? And the horde that bought it many of them had that smug superiority complex to them? I just got the 4. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Ladies, ladies.. You're both pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 take this into account i didn't want a sedan i was looking for a mid-sized, 4 door, hatch that got good gas mileage. how many are there.....one.....a prius. i test drove the fit and the insight. the fit was a little more fun to drive put was smaller than i wanted. the insight is a shitbox. look how many they sell next to the prius. my sister has a matrix and i didn't like the seats at all. my intention is to keep this car for a long time. what will be the price of gas in ten years? why would i buy a car that gets poor gas mileage? especially if gas soars up to $5.00 or more. when gas goes up what happens to the resale value of "gas guzzling" vehicles? it drop dramatically. my maintenance for the car is very low. i got the prius III only because i couldn't get the II in time. so i wasted a $1,000 you have to add it all up not just the savings on gas. if Subaru had made a AWD hybrid i would have more likely have gotten that instead. they have had a system for 5 years. they change too slowly and the timing was just right to get the prius. the prius isn't perfect but, it works for me. this thread was originally about Subaru and Toyota getting together. hopefully Subaru will "steal" knowledge from Toyota without being anything like Toyota. the prius R&D is good for Subaru. without a hybrid they will not achieve the cafe average. Red Beast, I have some math for you. A base Corolla is $16,250 and gets 35mpg highway according to the EPA. A base Prius is $21,650 and gets 48mpg highway. (Yes, I know EPA mileage is conservative, but that is true for both cars. Let's assume both get similar amounts more than the EPA says.) Now, let's assume gas is $4 a gallon, which it will be later this year by all accounts. So the Prius costs 8.3333 cents per mile to fill up at the EPA rate, and the Corolla costs 11.4286 cents per mile. There's a $5400 price difference between the two MSRPs, so in order for a Pruis to make sense, it will need to save $5400 in fuel. I just calculated that out. It does it after 174,461 miles. Are you planning to keep your Prius for 175k mi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 ^ You could have bought a Toyota Matrix. It actually has more passenger and cargo volume than a Prius. Gets pretty decent mileage too, plus it is cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Actually those that are so extremely concerned about the human footprint should take it to the final logical conclusion and off themselves. i'm not. i just don't want to give my money to the gas companies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users LieutenantDan Posted January 27, 2011 Mega Users Share Posted January 27, 2011 TDI > Crappy Hybrid IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I wonder what's going to happen to all of those batteries that are being produced for these hybrids. They are going to reach a recharging limit just like iPods do & soon, those batteries will need to be replaced, right? When it comes time to replace those batteries, what will happen to the old dead batteries that will have worn out? I can't imagine that they can just be thrown away or discarded, especially with the materials they employ to store power when charged. I see a future environmental danger. Maybe that's just me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I don't drive in stop and go traffic except for maybe once or twice a month. I typically drive to work 24 miles one way, and never touch my brakes except to slow down for my turn off, so my brakes will most likely last longer than yours. Once I get to work I will usually be at work for about 30-36 hours until I return, then I will usually be off for about 24-36 hours. So I don't put in a lot of miles and can afford to drive a "gas guzzler". If I am turning over faster on trips, then I am making a lot more money and can still afford the gas guzzler if needs be. I can afford to keep it and buy something more fuel efficient at some point too. I also don't drive a Subaru, I drive a Toyota Tundra now since Subarus and Priuseseseses (what is the plural form of this homo-ish word?) have no ground clearance to speak of and don't have real 4 wheel drive systems with a low range transfer case. Plus throwing dead animals in the trunk of a car makes a mess, just ask the last rental car agency I used the last time a buddy and me went hunting out of state. I get even worse mileage than you thought, although not a whole hell of a lot worse than my old LGT got. So, for my use a Hybrid has zero benefits over a less complex turbodiesel sedan (likely my next choice once the truck is paid for). Plus since I live at a higher altitude the forced induction diesel will be nice for all the elevation changes I deal with. I can also buy something reasonably entertaining to drive in a turbodiesel, something I can't say for the Prius. Now I'll admit that I haven't driven the current generation Prius but I drove and sold a shit load of the previous gen Prius so I am familiar with the breed. I find them to be insufferable to drive in anything but stop and go driving. Get behind the wheel of one in the Black Hills, or Big Horns on what could be a fun road and you will contemplate suicide; as you remain stuck behind tourists pulling 5th wheel campers for lack of enough power to pass them in the straits. Oh wait once you have depleted your battery climbing the long grades into the mountains, and have lost quite a bit of power from an already puny gasoline engine the people pulling the campers will be stuck behind you. you need what you need, i need what i need. but so much hybrid/prius hate out there. and of all the people here you shouldn't hate a hybrid considering your deisel/electric locomotives started "mass production" long before the first prius. the depleted battery has nothing to do with the pickup. people that drive like that are dickheads trying save a penny. i don't drive like that in any type of traffic. after 16 months with the car "i just drive it" around town and on the highways i use cruise control and stay to the right. the first gas/electric 4 wheel drive was this turd. circa 1900 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_electric_vehicle http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Lohner_Porsche.jpg/774px-Lohner_Porsche.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I don't have anything against electric traction motors for some uses, but they are not terribly versatile in their speed range. As for the not driving like a penny pinching dick, I appreciate that but in the western parts of the country where the speed limits are higher (75MPH on interstates), and elevations tend to be higher and grades steeper and longer more power is better. Climbing grades at 6000-9000ft will let you know in no uncertain terms whether or not you have enough power. I've seen plenty of cars that performed just fine at lower elevations sucking wind in the mountains, even the Tundra at 381hp feels a lot weaker going over the Big Horns at around 8-9000 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 the motor/generator in the prius drives the wheels not the engine. the engine turns the second motor/generator to charge the batteries as the main motor/generator turns the wheels. i would think the load on the engine to drive the generator would be far less than if it had to drive the wheels. good question to ask at priuschat with elevations/ice/mg1/mg2/altitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 heres a link to a thread about a Canadian cab company that uses gen II prius http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110125/bc_olsen_prius_reliability_110125/20110125?hub=BritishColumbiaHome 250,000 km = 155,000 miles (brakes 18 months) 700,000 km = 435,000 miles (new battery) 1,000,000+ km = 621,000 miles (on a gen II prius) members are getting 200,000 +- miles out of their front brake pads that would be how many brake jobs for a subaru? http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hybrid-news/89256-prius-haters.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I don't have anything against electric traction motors for some uses, but they are not terribly versatile in their speed range. As for the not driving like a penny pinching dick, I appreciate that but in the western parts of the country where the speed limits are higher (75MPH on interstates), and elevations tend to be higher and grades steeper and longer more power is better. Climbing grades at 6000-9000ft will let you know in no uncertain terms whether or not you have enough power. I've seen plenty of cars that performed just fine at lower elevations sucking wind in the mountains, even the Tundra at 381hp feels a lot weaker going over the Big Horns at around 8-9000 feet. here's a thread asking the elevation question. gen II have a slight problem. genIII with the larger engine do not. those that are driving slow uphill, starting at the bottom, are trying to conserve battery power as much as possible. in the process they are being dickheads slowing traffic. http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii-2010-prius-main-forum/89300-prius-climbing-9-000-feet-questions.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 ^ It's really funny seeing them do this at the bottom of a hill out here, mostly out of state drivers. They don't seem to realize the 6-7% grade is also going to be like 7 miles long. Doesn't matter if they save their battery for a bit, it'll still be depleted up top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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