LittleBlueGT Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 There are more details coming, but for now this is all there is to tantalize you: Starting from a clean slate, every component of the turbocharger was evaluated. A list was compiled of every great design feature in existence - then added new ideas, some never before seen. We felt the turbocharger of the future can serve many different roles. Not only will the turbo be an "air pump" but it can also have integrated features designed to minimize, or in some cases eliminate, additional components in the turbo system - saving time and money while reducing installation effort. It was important that the turbocharger of the future must be versatile - capable of fitting a variety of different engines, multiple cylinder configurations, integrated manifolds or traditional style, twinscroll or singlescroll and of course multi-fuel compatible. Convenient and versatile features such as a traditional 2.5" compressor hose outlet or easily convert it to an integrated vband outlet. Many other advanced design elements were added to the turbos such as pre-machining for a shaft speed sensor - data that is very important in determining proper performance or troubleshooting of any turbo car yet very few log. One of the major areas for improvement was found through aerodynamic work. Blade aerodynamics were developed from the ground up to result in a lineup of optimally matched ultra-efficient turbochargers suited to high-power modern spark ignition engines. These were then further combined this with top-shelf materials to allow for market-leading performance. Look here: http://www.full-race.com/articles/borgwarner-efr-turbos.html I can also add that titanium is being used, and the whole plumbing of the turbo will be simplified (not sure how to say that 100% correctly, but you will all see soon). This is not turbo of the month, this will re-define turbos. Mark my words. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Interesting. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 249K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 272K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 titanium = expensive "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 9, 2010 Author Share Posted October 9, 2010 Nope, it will be a normally priced turbo. The tech wasn't anything new (titanium has been researched a long time ago) but they made some new processes to actually make it doable now. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Been waiting for months already. I guess I can wait a little more. But its killing me. If I need a new set of headers/up/dp its gonna get too expensive. I love FR. But good stuff is not cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Been waiting for months already. I guess I can wait a little more. But its killing me. If I need a new set of headers/up/dp its gonna get too expensive. I love FR. But good stuff is not cheap. that's true. we'll have to wait and see. in the mean time, my BNR16 must be on the car today. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 249K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 272K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 "Price is long forgotten when quality remains" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 ^ Not when installing such a kit means the certain death of your motor. FR already sells kits for Hondas guaranteed by FR to break axles, trannys, motors. Thats the kind of powa I'm talking about. But, with a $5k turbo kit and the $15k motor needed to handle it, thats too much at once. You can grab an OTS 68HTA for $900. I already have the hardware to use it. Hard to justify $5k for a new turbo and then know the motor is gonna blow right away (I already know my motor is short lived, but death is not certain or immediate). Hard to justify $5k for a new turbo and turn down the boost just to save the motor (no fun). Even at $3k it is gonna be expensive. Since we know its gonna be twin scroll you need minimum up and down with the turbo. I see dual EWG with the new Honda stuff, so expect similar That's gonna add a grand. Start to add it up. Full Race rocks (my wallet, lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnguyenbb6 Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 If you do a big boy turbo do it right with a built motor. Don't learn the hard way. My motor build ended up being a little more than $6k. Atleast be prepared with motor funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin1657615274 Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 and the internet hype begins... On the search for a new DD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Ben can you repost the broken image link? It's linked to your hard drive. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 and the internet hype begins... Geoff has been posting about this for months, but then we wont really get it all until SEMA. Anyways the prospect of yet earlier spool and no external wastegates is going to be real nice, especially if the integrated BCS works properly. Going to make my twinscroll equal length under engine turbo placement dream much more realistic goodbye EVO short runners advantage. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 9, 2010 Author Share Posted October 9, 2010 What we used to do (say 20g or HTA68): -turbo $1000 -EBCS $100 -BPV $200 -header/UP $900 -EWG $800 -DP $400 = 350 whp spool at 3100-3500 rpms = $3400 My predictions: - can't comment on all specifics = 400 whp spool at 3000 rpms = $4000 Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 10, 2010 Author Share Posted October 10, 2010 I love FR. But good stuff is not cheap. I hear you. The thing is half of this new tech is for a much lighter center cartridge rotating assembly, thus the boost threshold differences. But half of the new tech is for ease and simplicity of install, and elimination (or amalgamation) of certain parts. In the end, a nice FR headers is gonna cost coin, it will never be cheap to produce thick gauge headers for our cars. But you could run this set-up on stock manifolds and UP, or a GS unit, or a Perrin one. This is not hype, this is real. The reason things are hush is because of the HUGE impact this will have on a certain brand of OEM cars. A certain manufacturer is placing their next decades worth of bets on small DI turbo'd cars. Instead of a mid-size car having a 190 hp 2.5 liter gas motor (and a 250 hp 3.5 liter), it will have a 190 hp 1.3 liter and a 250 hp 1.8 liter. We have been able to make that kind of hp out of that displacement for quite some time now, but with a boost threshold point of 4000+ rpm. This technology is to bring down the boost threshold point to make those kinds of engines viable for the average buying public. The other bells and whistles are (I guess) a combination of things the engineers have wanted to do for sometime, and are choosing this redesign to do it. This is not an aftermarket company making claims, this is OEM big bucks trying to survive in new fuel economy standards. We just get to benefit from it. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 My gripe is not with cost if this is your first build. My gripe is the $4k+ I already spent on what I have and knowing that 99% of it would be useless. But, you always have to pay to stay on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 10, 2010 Author Share Posted October 10, 2010 My gripe is not with cost if this is your first build. My gripe is the $4k+ I already spent on what I have and knowing that 99% of it would be useless. But, you always have to pay to stay on top. Everything should work but your DP. You will be able to sell your DP, and a few other things you will no longer need. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Yeah, like my BOV, my EWG uppipe, EWG, possibly inlet. I will wait and see what hits SEMA. Not knocking it. I am sure it is worth the wait and the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Geoff has indicated there will be 3 exhaust housings: Singlescroll Subaru Uppipe Flanged Singlescroll T3 (for existing rotated kit UPs) Twinscroll T4 (for existing twinscroll rotated kit UPs) Geoff has also indicated that you can leave on your existing EWG configuration if you are not motivated to fit block-off plates. So MSprank it looks as though you will need to get a DP and can run what you brung, or just run your 68HTA and either way make a good setup. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 What we used to do (say 20g or HTA68): -turbo $1000 -EBCS $100 -BPV $200 -header/UP $900 -EWG $800 -DP $400 = 350 whp spool at 3100-3500 rpms = $3400 My predictions: - can't comment on all specifics = 400 whp spool at 3000 rpms = $4000 Some of us do that, others get the same result with used parts, which will be the reality of old whatever vs new Borg Warner. For the sake of the 'common man' position: -turbo $850 -EBCS stock or $75 -BPV stock -header/UP stock or $600 -DP $325 or gutted stocker -EWG n/a for anything south of 30r $1850, and any extra $$$ gets you a diminished return. Or $850 if you hate spending money. For the sake of basis comparison, the two things that must swap are turbo and DP, and everything else you have can stay that way. So $1175 is the reasonable rate alternative to a brand new BW turbo and DP, give or take. And there will probably be a small slide in the used market when the new product hits the market. So... Sell your 320-350whp turbo and 3" DP for $1000 and buy the new BW turbo and FR DP for ??? $3000 ??? Speculation is you lose $2000 to move up to the new turbo if you are running an existing setup, no matter what that setup is. WAG. Granted there are folks who only buy new, and only buy everything. LittleBlueGT spelled that out too. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Hmmm. Sounds good. Possibility of 50whp more at a hair sooner boost. Tough call for the money. But very interesting. If all I needed was turbo and DP, I could be persuaded easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 I'm very surprised how much $$$$ you've sunk into a stock location singlescroll kit, not a rotated twinscroll The real beauty here is everyone getting one step closer to that ideal power band. For the 5eat guys, and my planned under engine twinscroll EL header setup plan (just a plan) I speculate a 35R-sized air pump will be delivering decent power in all gears at all times. The 5eat torque converter can wipe out the first 3k of the range, so it will be a lot like having a big V8... Sleeper wagon . Without spray. Yay! THIS is what's up. Note I did say speculation. Waiting for dyno plots and logs [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricechex Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Subscribed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 I'm very surprised how much $$$$ you've sunk into a stock location singlescroll kit, not a rotated twinscroll Was trying to use available parts without going custom. The idea being to showcase what is available to customers. Custom is awesome, but not in most peoples budget. Try to show something they can attain and at the same time, the platform allows me to test multiple products before selling them to customers. Yes, I dropped lots of cash. Guess I might be doing it again, lol. Still thinking about custom modding the 68HTA and seeing where it goes. If I could gain 40-50 more ponies with no loss of spool I am right there with the BW already. Stubborn as a mule, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Was trying to use available parts without going custom. The idea being to showcase what is available to customers. Custom is awesome, but not in most peoples budget. Try to show something they can attain and at the same time, the platform allows me to test multiple products before selling them to customers. Yes, I dropped lots of cash. Guess I might be doing it again, lol. Still thinking about custom modding the 68HTA and seeing where it goes. If I could gain 40-50 more ponies with no loss of spool I am right there with the BW already. Stubborn as a mule, I know. Spoken like a businessman, setting up your car as a showcase of what you can create for your customers, sounds like a very positive decision to me You don't have to go custom to get rotated twinscroll: http://www.full-race.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=842_1151_1423&products_id=2188 http://www.garagetuning.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=45_46&product_id=94 But at those prices, custom is very appealing. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 I wish I had 100 customers who only wanted FR parts. Then I could have a full, FR car. That would be sweet. Alas, I cant seem to find the independently wealthy customers. But I do admire their (FR) work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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