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New BW EFR turbos coming soon through FR!!!!


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Enhanced Turbo Response EFR turbochargers use a dual-row ball bearing cartridge with ceramic balls and metal cage. This bearing system provides substantial friction reduction at low turbo speeds and in the process helps improve turbo response. Metal cage improved the durability of the ball bearing assembly

Flexible Compressor Cover

The EFR turbo large cover has a dual-machined outlet, both for a hose connection and a v-band connection.

Simplified Installation

Integrated compressor recirculation valve (CRV) to help avoid compressor surge and backflow during a throttle lift event. This feature helps to simplify the installation task and lowers overall system install cost

Forged Milled Compressor Wheels (FMW)

EFR turbos contain wheels that are fully milled from forged aluminum, commonly known as billet. Cut from custom forgings, their strength exceeds that which is available from typical bar-stock and also exceeds the material properties of an aluminum casting

Sensor mounting convenience

Speed sensor mounting provisions are also supplied on every compressor cover. Speed sensors are sold separately.

Boost Control Solenoid Valve (BCSV)

A boost control solenoid valve (BCSV) is included with every EFR turbo.

High Flow Wastegates

Purpose designed large wastegate ports give the wastegated EFR turbos the capability of handling the flow requirements of high performance applications

Ease of Orientation

Turbo orientation flexibility is facilitated by the wastegate bracket to bearing housing mounting arrangement.

Adjustable Wastegate

The fabrication and installation task is simplified with wastegated EFR models that feature adjustable wastegates available in three different canister sizes.

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wow that actually does look awesome...

 

Now, i start saving pennies... so 4k just just for the turbo and downpipe??

 

 

This turbo is not gonna be crazy expensive. This is designed for OEM, there will be tons of them in the future.

 

I imagine less then $2000 for the turbo, but once you consider that it comes with a BPV and EBCS it starts to seem like as good of a deal vs any other bb turbo, oh, except for the fact that it will perform better in all aspects, and it has an IWG that works better then any we have had (almost as good as EWG)

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That's it? But I can already get a Blouch for a little less cost! :lol:

 

Very exciting.

 

:popcorn:

Does your car even run right now?

 

Looks good. Im interested in seeing one get put on a dyno. BW seems to have pretty good turbo wheel designs already. My reluctance isn't in the design of the housings or wheels but in the cost and reliability of all the other crap.

 

Let's hope it ends up working and costing like you hope. It would be prett embarrassing to have the quantity of special sauce you do on hands face and key board for something that ends up not being everything you make it out to be. :p

Edited by KurtP
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Geoff already said it would. I would be very shocked if he would put his whole company's reputation on the line if he wasn't absolutely sure first. Geoff is very smart, and that would be the move of a total idiot to put his reputation on a turbo that was untested. Doesn't line up. This appears to be the iPhone of turbos. The next step in advancement. If there are any problems, they will be addressed quickly, or have already been fixed.

 

Borg Warner, Cosworth, and Full Race are all top of their industry. This is exciting!

[CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER]
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Geoff already said it would. I would be very shocked if he would put his whole company's reputation on the line if he wasn't absolutely sure first. Geoff is very smart, and that would be the move of a total idiot to put his reputation on a turbo that was untested. Doesn't line up. This appears to be the iPhone of turbos. The next step in advancement. If there are any problems, they will be addressed quickly, or have already been fixed.

 

Borg Warner, Cosworth, and Full Race are all top of their industry. This is exciting!

 

 

Fair and valid points. I do hope these turn out to be what they seem to be.

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This appears to be the iPhone of turbos.

 

A turbo for people who don't know anything about cars but want one because everyone else has one and copies 3-5 year old technology from other companies and claims it is revolutionary?:confused::lol:

 

Sorry couldn't resist;)

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For some reason I thought the price was going to be $1500 ish, but I really do not know. It doesn't matter much to me anyways, I would pay $3000 for it. I just care about the product and how it works.

 

The EBCS is the same as the old pro-drive unit AFAIK, and though some may say XX brand EBCS is better, the pro-dirve one has worked very well (up to OEM standard) and is mounted so close to the IWG and comp cover that response should be about as ideal as is possible.

 

I can say with confidence this stuff has been thoroughly tested for reliability. This should be a life-time turbo.

 

Like I said at the beginning, this is BIG, and is unlike any other turbo advancement we have seen in recent decades.

 

BW has been very successful with journal bearings, but for the OEM industry they cannot have a car that needs to be cooled off a bit after hard driving, it has to survive any idiot driving it hard and immediately shutting it off.

 

I am just waiting to see how the IWG is designed, and exactly how the BPV or Integrated compressor recirculation valve (CRV) works.

 

 

I have a feeling these set-ups will be very possible:

 

-3076 power, stock location, VF39 spool-up

-35R power, rotated TS, VF39 spool-up

 

 

What you have to remember about what we call "spool":

 

-we look at a dyno chart (or 3rd/4th gear run) and say XX turbo spools at 4000 rpm.

-many of these advancements will help a lot with reducing lag, maybe more so then reducing boost threshold (which will still be lowered).

 

 

An example:

 

 

  • So a 35R that normally spools at 4300 rpm (4th gear on the street) does this:

-2nd gear spools at 5300 rpm

  • a TS 35R that normally spool at 3900 rpm (4th gear on street) does this:

-2nd gear spools at 4800 rpm

  • a TS EFR 35R sized turbo spools at 3700 rpm (4th gear on street) does this:

-2nd gear spools at 3900 rpm

 

VF39 example now:

 

 

  • spools at 3100 rpm in 4th gear on the street

-in 2nd gear spools at 3900 rpm

This is what I think we will see with these turbos. Weight of the turbine blade has very little affect on the actual boost threshold point, especially when in a very high gear, and the turbo has lots of time (relative to rpm) to get up to speed. BUT, in the lower gears, where it actually matters, the lower weight of the rotating assembly will allow it to get up to speed sooo much faster, close to matching what it does in a higher gear.

 

I hope the above makes sense. If we compared the hypothetical EFR 35R sized turbo on TS format, we would still see a big difference in boost threshold on a dyno chart vs a VF39, but because of the lighter weight of the turbine wheel the car will feel pretty much the same to drive as a VF39 around town, due to it not needing as much time (not rpm) to spool.

Edited by LittleBlueGT
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Ack! :eek: Let's hope not. I would hate to think it's most basic function wouldn't work unless encapsuled in a special turbo blanket (sold separately).

 

I never said 4th gen :lol:

 

 

Edit: LBGT hopefully much more data will be available on things other than "max dyno power bro" so people who care about daily street driving (like us) will know what they're choosing before hand. So far those numbers look rather nice!!! Would love to see compressor maps and boost plots vs RPM in different gears! I know that's only part of the picture, but it would be excellent!

Edited by ClimberD@HexMods
[CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER]
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I never said 4th gen :lol:

 

Speaking of 4th gen... this new turbo technology looks awesome. However, I doubt I'll pursue it on my current car. When I begin considering my next car the swappability and feasibility of putting a BW EFR into it will be a major consideration. Very anxious for your results, LBGT. (I can only assume this setup is in your near future... )

My '05 LGT

My '07 Supercharged Shelby

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Speaking of 4th gen... this new turbo technology looks awesome. However, I doubt I'll pursue it on my current car. When I begin considering my next car the swappability and feasibility of putting a BW EFR into it will be a major consideration. Very anxious for your results, LBGT. (I can only assume this setup is in your near future... )

 

I will not be changing my current car either. I know all about delays in production..............

 

I am however eyeing it up for my next car.:)

 

If the price was cheap enough though, I suppose I may change what I have now. But then I would break my diffs, and my tranny, better off to wait for a 6mt and stronger diffs.

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That is actually where I am heading next. I am in the process over the next few weeks of installing STI seats in my car.

After that in the next year or so it will be a 2006 STI driveline. 6 speed, DCCD, axels, and rear diff.

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That is actually where I am heading next. I am in the process over the next few weeks of installing STI seats in my car.

After that in the next year or so it will be a 2006 STI driveline. 6 speed, DCCD, axels, and rear diff.

 

I will just buy a new STI, I think it makes more sense long term.

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Unless you need a wagon ;) and dont want a car payment anymore.

 

I have actually found a car I really like, does what I need it to and Im planning on keeping it.

 

Now if they bring any of the STI wagons to the states I might reconsider.

 

In my work I need to be able to haul some things and so far in 5 years with Toshiba Medical in X-Ray/Vascular it has been a perfect vehicle.

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Unless you need a wagon ;) and dont want a car payment anymore.

 

True - unless it ends up in swap hell. With the number of electronics on cars these days, and heck - an '08 5EAT not working with an '06 model, different ECUs for every year, etc... Unless I had a LOT of time to kill and a LOT of $$$, I wouldn't consider swapping half the car. Even if I had someone who assured me it could be done. Not as a DD.

 

Anyway, good luck!

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This is what I think we will see with these turbos. Weight of the turbine blade has very little affect on the actual boost threshold point, especially when in a very high gear, and the turbo has lots of time (relative to rpm) to get up to speed. BUT, in the lower gears, where it actually matters, the lower weight of the rotating assembly will allow it to get up to speed sooo much faster, close to matching what it does in a higher gear.

 

Please don't take this as me bashing this turbo because I am very interested in this turbo as well.

 

Hasn't this done before with BW playing catch up to everyone else in the idustry? It is no secret that Precision and FP did this last year and their turbos have been proven to spool quicker than even the current GT35R. Both companies now offer ceramic BB and billet wheels that spool almost to what you explained above. The rest of the stuff looks neat, but is not something everyone is looking for. I love the crv idea but the IWG is a waste to me. I would much rather go external wastegate and it seems the majority of the industry has already gone in that direction. Dual 44MM wastegates on a TS will be more accurate than an internal WG design anyday. Just curious.......I have been talking to my fabricator about these turbos for a few months since he is a dealer for BW turbos. He is anxious for these to be released as well.

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Please don't take this as me bashing this turbo because I am very interested in this turbo as well.

 

Hasn't this done before with BW playing catch up to everyone else in the idustry? It is no secret that Precision and FP did this last year and their turbos have been proven to spool quicker than even the current GT35R. Both companies now offer ceramic BB and billet wheels that spool almost to what you explained above. The rest of the stuff looks neat, but is not something everyone is looking for. I love the crv idea but the IWG is a waste to me. I would much rather go external wastegate and it seems the majority of the industry has already gone in that direction. Dual 44MM wastegates on a TS will be more accurate than an internal WG design anyday. Just curious.......I have been talking to my fabricator about these turbos for a few months since he is a dealer for BW turbos. He is anxious for these to be released as well.

 

Not taken the wrong way, I love good discussion.

 

BW turbos have been much more efficient than Garrets for some time now. What I mean by efficient, is the make the same power for a given boost threshold, or make the same power but at a lower boost threshold.

 

Take a look at some of the BW dynos on subies and you will see.

 

My predictions above are suppose to give one relativism. Obviously one can do better or worse based on a number of factors.

 

The thing is these new billet wheels just offer us a bit more compressor efficiency. They have done nothing extraordinary in power output. Helped a bit, yes, but nothing HUGE!

 

FWIW I don't really like precision turbos on our cars. You know the AMS nice V-band rotated kits? ei: 750 kit for 08+ STI? Suppose to spool as well as a 3076, but with 100 more whp potential?

 

Well, Top-Speed tuning didn't really like it, in fact they now are the sole distributor for TS's kits, but with older 3076 and 35R turbos.

 

I really wanted the AMS kit to great, I solicited logs from everyone I could possibly find that had one, and you know what, it was nothing fantastic, sure they had 400+ whp cars, but when looking at the spool vs power made, it wasn't a whole lot better then what we already had.

 

(and yes, I considered gearing, IAT, dual AVCS vs single, E85 vs pump, etc....)

 

You may have seen my older thread about turbo performance in different gears, which has some merit here as well:

 

REAL turbo data, which one should I get ........ by LBGT

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Both companies now offer ceramic BB and billet wheels that spool almost to what you explained above.

 

Show me one that does this: (or even remotely close to it) In fact if you do, and people here agree with it, then I will PP you $10.:)

 

 

  • a TS EFR 35R sized turbo spools at 3700 rpm (4th gear on street) does this:

-2nd gear spools at 3900 rpm

 

BB does not help with boost threshold, it does however help with spool, or time to boost especially in a transient situation.

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I love the crv idea but the IWG is a waste to me. I would much rather go external wastegate and it seems the majority of the industry has already gone in that direction. Dual 44MM wastegates on a TS will be more accurate than an internal WG design anyday.

 

This turbo is going to be used a lot in OEM cars.

 

You are correct that an EWG will be more accurate, and make more power.

 

There are a number of points to consider:

 

1) the majority of guys do not want an EWG

2) some that do want it re-routed into the DP, this is costly, takes up space, is prone to cracking

3) TS makes the whole EWG thing even worse, one of the biggest reasons I do not have a FR TS kit on my car right now. How do I re-plumb this back into the DP, or put two mufflers on it

4) EWG is money probably more then $500 when said and done, even more for a re-plumb. TS EWG is very expensive

 

Now think about IWGs, they have a lot of room for improvement, A LOT! If you were only giving up 10 whp on a 430 whp car, would you still opt for EWG? (2011 911 turbos just did a 10.8@129, uses IWG FWIW) I think these EFR turbos will change a lot of people's minds on IWG, especially for a DD, maybe not an all out track car.

 

According to Geoff the new IWG will also be a lot more accurate, he tried to describe it to me, but I don't have every good pics, I guess we will see.

 

 

However, the biggest thing you are not really seeing (or so it seems) is the HUGE change in having the turbine wheel weighing 1/2 of an Inconel wheel. The difference here has got to be 3 or 4 times the magnitude of going from an already well designed comp wheel to a fancy billet one. Just look at any normal turbo, the comp wheel is very thing edged, obviously a lot of time went into meticulously designing it.

 

Now look at a turbine wheel, it looks archaic. We had no choice I guess due to the temps it sees, but imagine a much lighter and better designed turbine wheel. Big room for improvement.:)

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