NSFW Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Has anyone here daily-driven a car with a dog-box? I haven't broken my 5MT yet, but I'm thinking about getting a new transmission before I break it, rather than after. All options are on the table, but the dog-box idea is kind of a big unknown. I saw the PPG video about driving a dog-box on the street and it doesn't seem so bad. Probably overkill, but on the other hand it might be kinda fun. Anybody got first-hand experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gire Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Probably overkill You said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolksey85 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 You said it. +1 Go with a helical PPG set and save the extra $$$ for something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AShoe Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I have a full dog box in my 240sx. It takes a little getting used to but is perfectly fine to drive on the street. PPG hits it on the head about driving on the street. Just get ready to find every other weak point in your drivetrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 dog box is def overkill. the most you should do is a built ppg synchromesh helical box with upgraded front and center diffs. look for the JDM helical front LSD and the PPG helical/torsen Center. lots of $$$$$$$$$$$ for all this, like $7k just for parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 I have a full dog box in my 240sx. It takes a little getting used to but is perfectly fine to drive on the street. PPG hits it on the head about driving on the street. Just get ready to find every other weak point in your drivetrain. Is the dog-box inherently harder on the rest of the drivetrain? Or is it just that people with dogboxes usually got them because they have enough power to break all kinds of things? FWIW, I'm probably close to 400whp now and I'm not sure if I'll stay with this, or get cams, or meth, or a 35R, or what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 the dog box is harder on the drive train. shifts are quick and hard and shock the drive train alot more. for 400whp, a ppg helical syncromesh is more than enough for 500+ whp. if you want more strength, ppg straigt cuts will be alittle bit tougher, but no need for a dog box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AShoe Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Because of being able to shift the dog box so much faster and under full boost it is much harder on the drivetrain than a syncromesh transmission. for drag racing shifting between first and second is as easy as pulling back moderately on the shifter and waiting for the rev limiter. When the fuel cut hits the shifter pops into second and you never loose boost. FWIW i don't really want one in my subaru, because of the noise and i'm not the only one who drives it. But it is really fun to drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06gtleg Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 IMO the straight cut gears would be VERY annoying!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoobie Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 BAC5.2 had a dogbox tranny on one of his previous subarus. Maybe he will chime in here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted January 28, 2010 Author Share Posted January 28, 2010 IMO the straight cut gears would be VERY annoying!!! I agree. My next question - for the gear makers - was going to be whether or not I could get helical-cut dog gears. That would be a showstopper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 BAC5.2 had a dogbox tranny on one of his previous subarus. Maybe he will chime in here I did. I daily drove a PPG straight cut Dogbox in my 94 Legacy for something like 6 months. It's actually quite pleasant, once you get used to it. And it's not difficult to get used to. I had actually, quite seriously, considered building a PPG helical dogbox for my lifted Forester. Not because I wanted to launch the car or anything like that. But because engagement is SO smooth and effortless, they really can be a joy to drive. Are they inherently harder on the rest of the car? No. They CAN be if you drive them like that, but you can very easily drive a dogbox as quickly as a synchro box, with no increased harshness to the drivetrain. One word of warning. They aren't for everyone, and the margin for error is non-existant. You mess up, and you actively damage the dog-rings. If you have your wits about you, and you understand what is going on, then it's not really an issue. There is some jerkiness on throttle transition (on-off-on type transitions), but you can mitigate that with the clutch and throttle. You kind of learn around it. After about a month of driving one every day, you get so used to it, you forget about it. If the noise of straight-cuts is a concern, simply line under the carpet with Dynamat. It helps a lot. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 Thanks for the info! You mess up, and you actively damage the dog-rings. Does that happen if you don't rev-match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Don't go there. Really. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Thanks for the info! Does that happen if you don't rev-match? Rev-matching? You find out rather quickly with a dogbox that rev matching does little more than make you sound like you are driving a race car, without actually doing anything helpful inside the trans. Double clutching, however, is quite helpful when downshifting. Clutch in, select neutral, clutch out, blip throttle, clutch in, select gear, clutch out, drive. You don't have to do it, and you can shift quite easily without doing it once you are used to driving a dogbox. For up-shifts, you just need to time things right, and you'll be set. If you want to be lazy, which I certainly was during a daily commute, you can double clutch so you can take your sweet time shifting. The key behind driving a dogbox is understanding what is happening inside the transmission. If you can visualize how the shafts are turning, you can then drive one VERY smoothly with very little effort. It's all about timing. I think I posted this video before, but here it is again: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_1jO64tuQA&feature=player_embedded]YouTube- Pfitzner Performance Gearbox - How to drive a dog box[/ame] [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 That's the video that got me curious about dogboxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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