Mad1 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 All the SI-drive is really doing is adjusting the throttle position so you have your foot on the peddle all the way down, but not have the throttle open 100%. You can do the same thing by not being lazy and pressing the peddle all the way. It's lame. According to Subaru more than the throttle changes, I really notice because I back up a steep incline to my parking spot, The "I" setting requires a great deal of clutch feathering whereas "S#" I just let the clutch out and torque right up the hill. Quoting Subaru... The modes are selected by a knob located behind the shifter, and they’re marked Intelligent, Sport, and [s#] Sport Sharp. (A Sport Sharp button is added to the steering wheel for 2008.) The selected mode is shown in the multifunction display window in the instrument panel along with a representation of the corresponding torque curve. Choosing a mode sends signals to the vehicle’s body control module. From there, wiring carries signals almost instantaneously to the engine’s and automatic transmission’s electronic control units. The SI-DRIVE settings change the control units’ programming (mapping). Programming changes modify engine torque characteristics by adjusting how engine and transmission components function. These components include the electronic throttle, fuel delivery system, ignition, turbocharger wastegate, and automatic transmission response. http://www.drive.subaru.com/Summer07_whatmakes.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Verwilderd also said that the bilstein suspension was just a name. There is a pattern of minimizing the previous model, to justify the shortcomings of the current model. And I believe I remember him talking about working at a Subaru dealership... not that there would be a vested interest in moving new cars rather than used cars, or anything. As much of a stickler as I am on a manual gearbox... I would take a 5EAT-Sport Shift paddle setup on a 2008-2009 3.0R with Bilsteins and SI-drive before I would take a "fully loaded" 3.6R 2010 Legacy. I use the term fully loaded loosely, as it is actually less well equipped overall. I'd rather the BL Legacy had the 3.6R, when the Tribeca got the 3.6R in 2008, and Legacy/Outback did not. I'd love it to be fully un-corked, and backed by the Spec B's 6MT VTD gearbox... but Subaru won't sell an H6 with a stick shift in the US, although they did offer a 3.0R Spec B overseas. As much as I love turbos, my SVX cruises so much smoother and quieter. 2500 RPMs at 75 or a couple more MPH on the interstate is a joy. The same conditions in the Legacy, the engine is buzzing along at more than 3000RPMs, in a way that either begs for another overdrive gear, a lower final drive ratio, or else the engine wants to be pushed harder, beyond that buzzy RPM range. But cruising at speed, and running the engine up the tach are not the same thing. I actually get to my destination more relaxed, and less tired in the SVX, for not having that slightly more frenetic behavior from the car. I love the rush of a turbo engine, and it is great when wanting to play. But I find myself eating mileage between cities far more often by necessity than I get opportunities to really play around without attracting the local constabulary. A sport sedan or sport coupe with an H6 and manual gearbox, and graceful, yet competent suspension would just about hit the spot. I guess I'll have to push harder and find myself a 996 Carrera 4S, instead, since Subaru won't build me a new car to those specs, even though they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 bull unclemat... I had one as a loaner and that thing took curves like a champ. For an SUV i could drive it very aggressively. I know the XL-7 is way worse handling as I've had one of those as a loaner as well and that was heavily the suck. Bull? Which year XL-7 are you talking about? Edmunds tested 01 XL-7 to be faster in slalom than E46 BMW 325xi: http://www.insideline.com/suzuki/xl7/2001/full-test-2001-suzuki-grand-vitara-xl-7.html Off-road rattling was exacerbated by the XL-7's taut suspension. Equipped with independent MacPherson struts with coil springs and a stabilizer bar in front and a rigid rear axle suspended by a five-link setup in the rear, the XL-7 provides surprisingly good handling on road. In fact, handling is excellent. The XL-7 actually performed better than the 2001 BMW 325xi Wagon during our instrumented suspension and handling tests — no small feat, as BMWs are renowned for their superior suspensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 2007 model year. And FYI the Tribeca was faster still through the slalom than the XL-7 was. which means it was also faster than that 2001 325xi wagon. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 This is precisely my point and why I chose the base model 6 cylinders to compare. Sorry, no apples to apples. Not when you are examining what is the most cost effective option for 7 passengers. Say youre are buying ice cream and you want vanilla. But you could buy the more expensive chocolate ice cream with M & Ms and nuts and you get less. Then you remember that you just wanted plain vanilla anyway and thats what you buy. Thus, see the Tribeca's sales for the last 18 months. Manufacturers never make a ton of stripper model cars... It just doesn't happen. It'd be interesting to see how many people opt for FWD vs AWD versions of SUVs. Tribeca's sales for the last 18 months have a lot to do with production and advertising. Production was slashed in favor of making more Outback's and Legacy's. If you look at the inventories on subaru.com... they are wayyyyyyyyy down from what they used to be. Subaru gave up on the Tribeca just after the 2008 launched. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 2007 model year. And FYI the Tribeca was faster still through the slalom than the XL-7 was. which means it was also faster than that 2001 325xi wagon. 2007+ XL-7 is (or rather was, it's been thankfully axed since) rebaged GMC. Completely different car (and complete turd). I was referring to 01-06 XL-7. Note, slalom is not everything. Tribeca's dull steering feel and response left me quite disappointed after hearing how great it supposedly handles. It also "drives" bigger than it is, while the interior feels cramped for such a vehicle. Indeed it's been a fail. 2011 - bye, bye Tribeca! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 The question is... if they can the Trib, are they going to learn anything from it? Are they going to learn that design matters, especially on the first impression. Are they going to learn that it isn't merely enough to be an also-ran in the market? Are they going to learn that there was good things about the car? the smoother styling, the simplistic, functional ACC design... things like that? And if they don't learn... are they going to just keep bulking up Legacy and Outback trying to recapture the buyers that they don't think took to the Tribeca... All this to yet again... not evaluate honestly, and refine their process. Baja fails, so they cancel it. SVX is too expensive and unique... cancelled. Impreza Coupe doesn't pull as much weight, it gets cancelled. Tribeca is under-cooked on delivery, so it looks to be cancelled soon. Legacy as a lithe alternative to German sport sedans... no, it didn't sell when nobody knew it existed, so it changed to be mainstream appliance copycat. Maybe if Subaru would evaluate what is truly going on in the heads, hearts and wallets of it's intended customers... and that their customers are likely not people ripped away from a Toyota Camry that they have a history of buying already... Maybe they could make some revisions. Maybe they could evolve and refine their product line, instead of just trying and cancelling, and then trying something else. The rationality seems to be gone out of the process. The passion for the product is long since gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 2007+ XL-7 is (or rather was, it's been thankfully axed since) rebaged GMC. Completely different car (and complete turd). I was referring to 01-06 XL-7. Note, slalom is not everything. Tribeca's dull steering feel and response left me quite disappointed after hearing how great it supposedly handles. It also "drives" bigger than it is, while the interior feels cramped for such a vehicle. Indeed it's been a fail. 2011 - bye, bye Tribeca! I definitely don't feel the Tribeca drives bigger than it is... not by a longshot. I do feel the steering was too light at speed where a lot think that's it's too heavy. The Tribeca is one of the few driver's choice in the segment. Unfortunately it came out underpowered with a cramped 3rd row and ugly. 2008 fixed most of it's flaws, but it's still too small for anything but kids in the 3rd row... and Subaru decided not to throw anymore $$$ at it to relaunch it. FHI stated that they will make a new 7 passenger of some sort. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 The question is... if they can the Trib, are they going to learn anything from it? Are they going to learn that design matters, especially on the first impression. Are they going to learn that it isn't merely enough to be an also-ran in the market? Are they going to learn that there was good things about the car? the smoother styling, the simplistic, functional ACC design... things like that? And if they don't learn... are they going to just keep bulking up Legacy and Outback trying to recapture the buyers that they don't think took to the Tribeca... All this to yet again... not evaluate honestly, and refine their process. Baja fails, so they cancel it. SVX is too expensive and unique... cancelled. Impreza Coupe doesn't pull as much weight, it gets cancelled. Tribeca is under-cooked on delivery, so it looks to be cancelled soon. Legacy as a lithe alternative to German sport sedans... no, it didn't sell when nobody knew it existed, so it changed to be mainstream appliance copycat. Maybe if Subaru would evaluate what is truly going on in the heads, hearts and wallets of it's intended customers... and that their customers are likely not people ripped away from a Toyota Camry that they have a history of buying already... Maybe they could make some revisions. Maybe they could evolve and refine their product line, instead of just trying and cancelling, and then trying something else. The rationality seems to be gone out of the process. The passion for the product is long since gone. I agree with you. I said "bye, bye", but in fact I would welcome improved Tribeca: - bump up the power (I am sure the 3.6L engine is capable of 300 hp) - put a quality functional dash that doesn't limit legroom - make the 3rd row usable Anyway I think Tribeca is a goner, instead we'll get some Outback derived 7-passenger. Exiga supposedly does poorly, so I guess it may be axed as well. And maybe, just maybe do a "halo" version of Tribeca. Stiffer suspension, few STI badges, more aggressive tuning, manual transmission? But that doesn't work with the image of appliance maker Subaru aspires to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 I would welcome a Tribeca with an improved powertrain. However, it is a crowded market and I'm not sure that there is room for another thirsty SUV when the demand is dropping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 People still need to move their families on the road. Demand may drop as people who don't need the space downsize, but demand won't dry up. And if the CUV is not a viable form factor, then Subaru can be the one to offer a new product. With upgraded drivetrains to handle the full power that the EZ series H6s are capable of producing. Dual clutch if possible. Add Direct fuel injection, and maybe even kick in Toyota's Valvematic variable (not just two stage) valve lift system... And put it in a 7 passenger version of the Tourer concept, or something. If the existing way doesn't work, then try something new... but GET IT RIGHT. New and half-baked only serves to discredit the entire premise, not just show that the execution of the product wasn't good enough. Cars come in multiple shapes and sizes for a reason. not everyone needs the same things... some people need only two seats, some need 5 or 7, or even more. If Subaru can continue to modularize their core competencies, and build diverse vehicles on the same proven systems... and do it with passion and competency, which includes evaluation, and renovation, not just innovation... They will succeed that way. If they waffle, and built me-too appliances along side the bigger appliance-builder fish... they'll starve for food, while the big fish eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 People still need to move their families on the road. Yes and my point was that there are cheaper and more efficient ways in which to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theGeneral Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 SU > Penn State Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 In your dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ in PA Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Go Hokies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad1 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 As much as I love turbos, my SVX cruises so much smoother and quieter. 2500 RPMs at 75 or a couple more MPH on the interstate is a joy. The same conditions in the Legacy, the engine is buzzing along at more than 3000RPMs, in a way that either begs for another overdrive gear, a lower final drive ratio, or else the engine wants to be pushed harder, beyond that buzzy RPM range. But cruising at speed, and running the engine up the tach are not the same thing. . My '08 Spec B 6MT is turning 2800 smooth as silk RPM's at 75mph and is not really in the turbo yet, for sure it is not "buzzing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 My '08 Spec B 6MT is turning 2800 smooth as silk RPM's at 75mph and is not really in the turbo yet, for sure it is not "buzzing". 2800 rpms at 75mph... and just under the line on boost. My SVX turns noticeably less than 2500 RPMs at nearly 80mph, and barely more than 2000 RPMs at 70-75. It also has a lower final drive ratio. SVX is 3.54, Spec B is 3.9, and Legacy GT is 4.11, if I remember correctly. And while my Legacy is basically the same as yours, although the gearing is probably a slight bit different, 6th gear, and all... but my legacy is pushing close to 3000 rpms at that speed, as well. Legacy is smoother than some, boxers inherently are. Legacy is demonstrably quicker on boost, no doubt. But silky smooth is H6 domain, and turning almost 700 fewer RPMs with more displacement, and 6 power pulses per revolution, instead of 4... makes even a relatively smooth boxer 4 seem buzzy by comparison. Not to mention a properly damped suspension which Legacy GT wishes it had, and quiet flush-fitted glass, and a very aerodynamic profile... and better seats, too, even with my SVXs' drivers seat badly sun damaged, and seam-ripped. My right leg did not cramp up the way it does after about 2 hours in the Legacy, and the lumbar support doesn't actually KILL my back. 2005+ Legacy's lumbar support is a torture device. My particular SVX is more comfortable after 150+ miles, than my particular Legacy GT is on the same trip, on the same route. That is not to say that my particular Legacy GT doesn't have some things all over my SVX. Much more viscerally quick. Stage 2 Legacy GT 5-speed is much more visceral than stock 230hp automatic SVX. Nicer front end styling... EL gauges and better interior lighting as another... improved headlights... glass panel sunroof... heated seats further south than canadian models... lack of an antenna mast. heated windshield and washers under the hood edge, rather than on-top... LED signal mirrors... I prefer the black interior to SVX's gray... Legacy has more common parts with other Subarus than SVX did... which is better for availability a manual transmission most importantly. I badly wish I had a a 6-speed gearbox swapped SVX... Spec B's gearbox would be utterly fantastic in an SVX, especially one with an upgraded EG33 engine that isn't de-tuned to preserve the automatic gearbox. More involvement, more direct application of engine power through a clutch than through a torque converter, and better AWD with VTD (VTD debuted on the JDM SVX, but the US model didn't get it, it got the 90-10 front-biased AWD that most other 4EAT Subarus have.) A 6-speed SVX would get rear-biased AWD, with full variable torque distribution. I'd take DCCD, if it were possible to integrate the controller for that. The EG33 engine itself, even without AVCS and other more modern bits, is capable of 300+ hp, even without turbocharging. They are robust enough to be built for turbocharging, and can put out north of 450 reliable horsepower that way. If only Subaru had built the features of the 2007-2009 Spec Bs into a coupe bodystyle with SVX's sleeker, flush-fit glass canopy style roof, a lift back hatch, and relatively low drag design... subtly widened fenders, Brembos, Bilsteins, BBS wheels, and STI 5x114 hubs... and a minimum of a 4-way drivetrain choice... H4T or H6, 6MT or automatic with sport-shift... either-or on the engine and gearbox choices independently, not like the '10 Legacy, where the gearbox and engine can't be separate choices. Subaru could have built a current, and very very nice SVX successor, based on BL Legacy, if they had wanted to. If they had LEARNED the lessons, rather than just quitting. Here's hoping that they build a nice coupe on the GR Impreza platform which is nearly the same size. Let's hope they give it the class that the BL Legacy, and SVX had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock2534 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I am not sure what is your definition of 'normal size people' but only my 7 year old could have fit in 3rd row in Tribeca (when I was checking it a few years ago access was only from passenger side - bad idea). If she needed a child seat 3rd row would not accomodate her. Krzys Ours is an 09, so I can not speak to the previous models. You can access the third row from either side, however that is the hardest part, squeezing in there, not much you can do I guess. But once you are in there I think there is adequate room for comfort. I wouldn't want to be back there for 4 hours, but for the size of the vehicle I think it is quite good. It is definitely not a chevy suburban, don't get me wrong, if you have a family of 5+ you probably do not want this vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 One side only problem with accessing the 3rd row was fixed in 07. My only complain about Tribeca B9 is tranny. We got it reflashed with latest update at the dealer which made things better, but didn't fix it completely. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 177 Tribecas sold in November FTL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 cars.com shows 239 Tribecas in inventory in the country on the other hand it shows 4,452 Outbacks in inventory in the country. Tribeca sales at this point are artificially low because of production and no advertising focus at all. Tribeca capacity has been switched to Legacy and Outback capacity [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verwilderd Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 That's 100% correct. I get bombarded with requests for this vehicle right now and there are almost none in all of Texas. In fact I have someone driving 300 miles (one way) to pick one up on Saturday and another driving even further in the middle of the month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theGeneral Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 In your dreams. You ever come here again to play hoops against the Cuse': http://submiturpics.com/images/guvko35onfgcqz1oiqwh.jpg And you had better bring a lot of blue towels to cry into after we kick your a$$es. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you because I was in the largest stadium in the nation. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/BlueBandPano.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verwilderd Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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