D0WNxSH1FT Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Sure they are full time, unless of course you're nit-picking just for argument's sake Might wanna contact SOA about false marketing ... I am nit-picking. I consider 50/50, 40/60, or some center differential deteremined % of torque split F/R to be full time. If it is biased 90/10 it is not full time as basically the rear tires don't do anything unless there is a loss of traction. Maybe instead of full time we should say Proactive vs Reactive AWD. Manual + VTD Auto Subarus, Audi Torsen-Quattro, Mitsu Evo/Ralliart and Lexus LS are Proactive Active Auto Subarus and everyone else are Reactive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 ^That makes sense and I almost agree with you on the 90/10 split scenario. However, they still qualify as full-time because all wheels turn at all times, whereas there are plenty AWD cars out there that will be exclusively FWD or RWD until something happens. Proactive vs Reactive, I think it's a whole new different discussion. I'd prefer proactive but Subaru's awd is good enough as it is to do a great job in snow. The only qualm I have is the "lag" due to viscous coupling at various points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0WNxSH1FT Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 ^That makes sense and I almost agree with you on the 90/10 split scenario. However, they still qualify as full-time because all wheels turn at all times, whereas there are plenty AWD cars out there that will be exclusively FWD or RWD until something happens. I see what you are saying, that 10% is technically power. Does anyone know if the WRC cars from Ford, etc who normally use a Haldex-Based system use a Center Diff or are they Haldex rally cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanboy Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Meh, most modern haldex systems go AWD based on sensor input. WOT? Clutches lock-up. I'd trust the holding ability of a clamped Haldex system in terms of torque transfer versus the loose viscous coupler on 5MT subarus in severe conditions. Huge part of the debate in comparing AWD systems is what you are actually using AWD for. Pure performance or traction, or a combination of the two? -B http://www.standardshift.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psi365 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Audi A/S/RS4's, A/S5s, A/S/RS6s, and A/S8s all use a torsen center diff. THe S/RS cars use a torsen II system that splits it 40/60. THe A3 and TT use a Haldex system. The Q7 has an old fashion transfer case as does the R8 iirc. Porsche uses a viiscous coupler for their awd system and coupled with their stability control system is surprisingly really good in the snow.The only thing that holds 911s in snow is ground clearance. Also the Cayenne uses a transfer case. IIRC teh spec B also uses a torsen for the rear diff for limited slip as do Tundra's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvagnone Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 The issue is, that it's not apples to oranges. Subaru has an excellent AWD system, but only offers a front LSD on certain models. So are you comparing a Legacy to a EVO and a S4? unfortunatley both the EVO and a the S4 have LSD's, the S4 having an electronic, not sure on the EVO. That alone will can change the grip and handling. Substitute in the STi for the Legacy and it would be VERY close. 2000-2004 legacy GT had a rear LSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 AWD cars... Listed in lustworthiness descending order. list would be reversed if sorting in ascending order by price. 1st: Audi R8. 2nd: Porsche Carrera 4S/Turbo 3rd: 2010 Audi S4 or S5. (and it blows that the S4 Avant, and S5 Sportback don't come to the US...) 4th: 2009 Legacy GT Spec B plus mods. 5th: A restored prime condition Subaru SVX with a Spec.B or STI 6-speed gearbox installed, instead of the automatic, and the engine tuned for 300 or so naturally aspirated horsepower. Hypotheticals: A Porsche Panamera V8 or V8 turbo if it didn't look so mis-shapen, in terms of the bodywork. a fantastic machine marred by iffy proportions, especially in the roofline area. A new Subaru coupe that is equal parts 2009 Spec B's feature set, and SVX's sleek GT coupe profile, plus a pinch more up-to-date technology, mixed together into a new car. Land Rover is supposedly going to build their LRX... that could be interesting, in terms of a sporty 3-door mini-SUV. I could have mentioned Bugatti and Lamborghini... but those just don't do it for me on an intrinsic level. The Bugatti is just too much, and the Lambos are fun to look at, but in terms of wanting to own... I think the R8 or the Porsches suit me better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Hypotheticals: A Porsche Panamera V8 or V8 turbo if it didn't look so mis-shapen, in terms of the bodywork. a fantastic machine marred by iffy proportions, especially in the roofline area. I actually like the looks of the Panamera, it looks functional and purposeful. Then again I liked the looks of the original BMW M Coupe too. Porsche should develop a coupe from the Panamera platform, a modern successor to the 928 would be cool. Not that I could afford one, but cool nonetheless. Oh yeah, they should also put a small block Chevy in them too....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 The panamera would instantly look better if they gave it a bit more agressive a front end under the headlights, and a continuous arch in the roof. As it is, it looks like there is a flat spot in the roof between the the top of the windsheild and the top of the rear hatch... ruins the line of the car when viewed from the side. A new 928 successor on a shortened platform with RWD or AWD would be fantastic. and I'll pretend that there is nothing more to say about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0WNxSH1FT Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I've been reading more and the BMW xDrive looks pretty good. It uses a clutchpack, but normal conditions it is 40/60. It can also do 100/0 or 0/100 depending on need like two wheels on ice. And in extreme cases it will lock to 50/50. If two wheels on the same side are on ice it will use EPS to slow those wheels and give the dry wheels grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjwink Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Did they do away with LSD to save tire life? Wouldn't running an LSD cause slightly more tire wear under normal driving conditions on dry pavement when you turn? I have no doubt that LSD is awesome, but maybe they did this for a reason. (in addition to the cost saving). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0WNxSH1FT Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 2005-2009 LGT had Rear LSD (Spec.B had Torsen LSD). No front LSD, besides STI in the US. They got rid of the LSD b/c it is cheaper to use VDC to merely brake the rear wheels to help them to regain traction. It is not as good, but it gets the job done. When you are deep snow turn off VDC to allow the rear wheels to spin and get traction or else you'll lose engine power which will just get you stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05Limited Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Probably just the cost savings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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