Tokico HTS vs Koni vs Bilstien vs non coilovers

[Underdog]

hrm right.

I just got off the phone with my friend Ray (joon525)

He came from the same Honda background I did, both prelude owners that previously had Tein HA's

He is in the same boat as I am, but he just wants luxury where I want to be able to have the adjustability of a competitive shock for every day driving to go from soft daily to when I go to Tail of the Dragon or a random AutoX to just putz around in, I have the ability to change out my rebound/compression

 

though my initial though on spring rates of 450fr/550rr may be a bit exceeding what I need, its kinda flabbergasting to look at all this info and not be able to come to a sound decision since there isnt much of options available for the LGT

 

If you are looking for both rebound and compression damping, the Tokico HTS is the only option. Of course, the adjustments are tethered, so you can't really dial-in particular settings.

 

Hmm... rates from 350 to 500 lb/in, with superior damping, and a wide range of ride heights...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[goneskiian]

:lol:

 

UD cracks me up. He's trying to tell you that he's already given you the info you need. What you want is a coilover. With the Tarmac I's you can have them put any rate spring you want on there.

 

I don't think anybody offers a fixed perch strut with that much adjustability.

 

madcatz - In reference your comment about the "weak" springs, the Koni's were designed for the Leggy's stock springs, which you already know since you read the whole Koni thread. Most experts agree that the Leggy is underdamped (oversprung) out of the box.

[madcatz]

I didnt say ride height

 

lol

I know I know I know...the end all be all will be coilovers....lol

[Underdog]

Oh, was I not subtle enough?

 

That is basically what I'm getting at, not to mess up your thread, but because I've gone through this myself.

 

There were a few times where I found a fixed perch combo that I liked on paper, but then I found out that the spring wasn't designed for that shock and the ride heights were all messed up... Just because you don't want to tweak ride height, should we assume that you don't care at all where the ride height ends up? I'm going to guess that you want the car to still look normal, if not better than stock, after dropping $1k+ on it.

 

I'm not a coilover junkie or anything, it's just what worked best for me in the context of this particular make/model, it's daily-driver usage, and my preferences.

[madcatz]

if nothing else comes of this thread at least I can say I searched!

 

lol

 

idealy I was looking to try and get a close to perfect fixed perch adjustable shock for less than coilovers....which I will, but why not spend the extra 50-100 and get the decent level coils and call it a day

[m sprank]

I am thrilled that a previous post of mine was quoted by the OP. That being said, I am looking to replace my Tokicos.

 

Not unhappy, they are excellent for the money. Completely happy with the purchase. I recently relocated back to So Cal. The roads are much nicer here (and so is Willow Springs) than in NYC. So, now I am in the market for coilovers.

 

For the price of the HTS/swift combo I am currently running (and I did not have the same drop issues that UD had) the only coilovers available are CRAP! Megans and down from there. Even BC's are more money.

 

Coming from the Honda crowd you might want to research those H&R coilovers. Not every manufacturers reputation holds true on every brand/model car. There are lots of positive reviews of other brand coilovers on here.

 

I might be finicky, but for $1100 you are not going to find a "decent level" coilover. You are buying from the low end. At best the ride will be equivalent to a strut/spring combo and you will gain some ride height adjust ability. For the $1000 I prefer to pick and choose my components. Oh and a 450/550 spring rate on anything but smooth roads is going to chip teeth (and possibly clap out the chassis).

 

Ricers think everything is a race car, lol.

[madcatz]

lol.....the lude actually was tracked, but I do agree to that statement. Though I wouldnt mind a more aggressive spring rate

[LRegvall]

You might do well to start with just some moderately firmer, moderately lower springs like Eibachs or Ralliteks on the stock dampers (aftermarket dampers are the more expensive part) and see how it feels. Not too expensive especially if you can do the install yourself. A lot of people have expressed happiness with this. May or may not be the best solution for you but it can start the education process with nominal tuition. I'd say the best thing economically is if you can do the work yourself. That way you can make changes without the ante being too high.

 

I set my budget at $1,000 and went with the BC Racings BRs. The RCE Tarmacs are very popular and they sound like they have a lot of suspension travel that others including BC BRs don't. This is critical to improving the LGT's handling/comfort balance. But they are significantly more expensive than some of the alternates like BC BRs. If I didn't care about the money spent, I'd probably have gone with them.

 

The BC BRs have their limitations, travel being key. I am working with preload to improve that with good results. It's likely that they will always be more challenged by rough roads than would the RCE Tarmacs. I do like the fact that coilovers are more adjustable than a spring/strut change though. For example, you can add a quarter inch of height in the back to get the car to rotate better. I also found that adjusting the rear sway bar (the front is plenty stiff) is important to keeping the handling in balance. With the BC BRs on and with the sway bar adjusted (and with a relatively smooth road) the car sticks (even with my new Eagle GT all-seasons), it turns in beautifully, and the slip angles are pretty much the same front and rear. The car is definitely more fun to drive.

 

When the economy improves I might change. And if I do, this process has been educational and I've learned how to do the work myself. The journey is good.

[NSFW]

FWIW...

 

Tokico + Pinks = happy me

 

Pinks drop quite a bit more than the advertised 0.5" in front, which is a good thing. Probably 1" maybe a tad more. They even out the wheel gaps pretty well.

 

Somehow pinks got a reputation for being harsh but I have no idea why. I've never put springs on a car before, but I've been in a couple of bone-jarring cars, so I was really worried about ride quality. Actually I wish I'd gone with something just a bit stiffer. I'm pretty happy though - no plans to change.

[sactojesse]

Brand  Front Drop (in)  Rear Drop (in)  Front Rate (kgf/mm)  Rear Rate (kgf/mm)     
Stock       0                  0              3.5                    5.5    
Pinks       0.5                0.5            4(p)                   6(p)    
Eibach      1                  0.76           3.0-4.0                3.0-6.0  
Tein HTech  0.9                0.9            3.9(p)                 5.5(p) 
Ion         1.18               1.0            4.0-5.2 (p)            6.7
Progress    1.3                1.0            3.4                    5.8   
H&R         1.25               1.25           secret(p)              secret    
Espelir     1.6                1.2            4.3                    7.2    
Tein STech  1.5                1.5            4.2                    6.0  
Cobb Sport  1.75               1.0            n/a                    n/a  
Swift       2                  1.5            4.25                   6.6    
RalliTEK    ~1.3              ~1.3            5.5 - 6.1              4.3 - 6.5  

and just for reference what Im talking about for spring rates being pretty soft and even

BTW, the rated drop for pinks is 15 mm or 0.6 inch, not 0.5 inch.

[ZAPIT]

Madcatz that spring chart is awesome.

 

Does anyone have information on strut travel comparisons coilover travel length comparisons?

[peteyjr]

Very happy with Ions and Koni's . Hated my swifts with stock dampers (hit the bump stops all the time) . Adequate travel over the roads I encounter. Sure I would love RCE's like underdog but it works very well for now. A good setup would be Ralliteks and Koni's. The one inch + of travel I gained has been a godsend.

[peteyjr]

BTW the chart on post 95 can be misleading as the claimed drop can differ from the actual drop.

[ZAPIT]

Very happy with Ions and Koni's . Hated my swifts with stock dampers (hit the bump stops all the time) . Adequate travel over the roads I encounter. Sure I would love RCE's like underdog but it works very well for now. A good setup would be Ralliteks and Koni's. The one inch + of travel I gained has been a godsend.

 

 

Does this mean that the Koni's have more travel than the stock dampers or is it just better now because the car is dropped less with the Ions?

 

Got the Swifts and stock dampers currently and "bottoming out" quite a bit.......was looking to do Tokico HT's but this thread got me thinking maybe a coilover setup

[Hanslo]

I'm curious about the spring rates on the posted chart. For example - for the Eibach fronts does 3.0 to 4.0 mean they are a little softer than stock under light compression (cracks and joints etc) but firm up to stiffer than stock under more severe compression (like speed bumps etc)? And how does that compare to the H.tech front rate. Does 3.9(P) imply a rate of 3.9 plus or minus depending on compression (I assume the 'P' stands for progressive) and, if so, is 3.9 the average or something?

Thanks,

Hanslo

[schwinn]

the prelude wasnt that light....tbh

LGT Curb Weight : 3300-3435 lbs(sedan)

Prelude Curb Weight 2954 lbs

That was a pretty big difference for me, when coming from my Mazda MX6 (curb of 2775, according to wikipedia). Even 3000lb cars felt different from the MX6, so this car is a world of difference. However, I don't mean to say that weight "only" is the issue... I was reminded (in another thread?) that a BMW 3-series can weigh about the same as the LGT, but feels more agile. But, weight is a big difference between the Honda-world and any other car. Hondas do feel lighter on their "feet" usually... and can be modded far more than other cars.

 

Maybe you should take a ride in a few member's cars with different setups, and see what you want to go with? Unclemat was very helpful way back when I was shopping for mine, and I am VERY happy with this setup...

 

EDIT: In fact, check out the other thread here: http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2627609#post2627609

[JSK05LGT]

I love my Tokico and Swift combo! Never thought twice about the setup, comfortable when I need it to be and teeth chattering hard when I make it that way :o)

[madcatz]

^^ And your semi local...lol

 

so uhhhhhhh joo busay soon?

[madcatz]

BTW the chart on post 95 can be misleading as the claimed drop can differ from the actual drop.

 

right that list was just copied and pasted from the subiwiki link at the top of the page

 

Madcatz that spring chart is awesome.

 

Does anyone have information on strut travel comparisons coilover travel length comparisons?

 

again it was a copy paste, so I cannot take credit for it as its been gathered by prior members....I just made it easy to read on the forum rather than a straight cut/paste

 

I'm curious about the spring rates on the posted chart. For example - for the Eibach fronts does 3.0 to 4.0 mean they are a little softer than stock under light compression (cracks and joints etc) but firm up to stiffer than stock under more severe compression (like speed bumps etc)? And how does that compare to the H.tech front rate. Does 3.9(P) imply a rate of 3.9 plus or minus depending on compression (I assume the 'P' stands for progressive) and, if so, is 3.9 the average or something?

Thanks,

Hanslo

I dont even know how to answer that as like I said above, its just what I got from the Wiki.....Im hoping that all this will spur up alot of talk and get some tech input as well

[ZAPIT]

I love my Tokico and Swift combo! Never thought twice about the setup, comfortable when I need it to be and teeth chattering hard when I make it that way :o)

 

 

It doesn't bottom out as the stock dampers and Swifts do? Which Tokico do you have?

[madcatz]

there is only the Tokico HTS/D-spec (they are the same)

[madcatz]

for fixed perch shocks we only have:

Koni Inserts

Tokico HTS/D-Spec

KYB G2

Stock/McPherson

Bilstein

[ZAPIT]

for fixed perch shocks we only have:

Koni Inserts

Tokico HTS/D-Spec

KYB G2

Stock/McPherson

Bilstein

 

thanks for making that ultra clear.

 

 

Back to JSK05LGT's post; so your Tokico's don't bottom out like the way the stock dampers do with Swift's?

[goneskiian]

for fixed perch shocks we only have:

Koni Inserts

Tokico HTS/D-Spec

KYB G2

Stock/McPherson

Bilstein

I believe Ohlins makes a fixed perch strut for our cars as well. Mucho dinero though! Search for a member by the name of johndas. I believe he's on Ions and Ohlins.

 

This is turning into a great thread. Thanks to all who have contributed their setups and impressions!

 

I've got my Eibachs and will be getting some Koni's as well. I don't have any experience with suspension modding though so anything I say you'll have to take with a grain of salt.

 

Cheers!

[JSK05LGT]

thanks for making that ultra clear.

 

 

Back to JSK05LGT's post; so your Tokico's don't bottom out like the way the stock dampers do with Swift's?

 

Nope, sure doesnt. Dan from MachV told me from day one that the Swift springs favor a firm setting, so I turned all of the struts all the way to firm and then counted 3 turns back on each, since then I have made one more turn in the firm direction, they have been perfect. I travel quite a bit, and I can honestly say I have never felt them bottom out.