Which radar/jammer do you have/recommend?

[TSiWRX]

^ I have that mat in my trunk, I carry it with me.

 

But again, how did that post cause you to infer I respected him? Did I see him in a negative light, given the full context of that post? Yes. Did I necessarily despise/disrespect him, no. Do I have the utmost respect for him, based again on those posts? Again, no. I merely do not see him in the best light, given that set of interactions, that's all - and I thought that my "full context" post prior had explained that?

 

I did not infer anything from his lack of replies, only that he did not reply, and that all of my posts had been public - which is more than I can say for most of that industry/hobby.

 

I'm not jumping to any conclusions, I'm merely asking the question, and merely pointing out the fact that I did not hide my view of the situation from anyone, in an effort to not make him see me making those accusations. I did everything out in the open.

 

I hid nothing, it's as plain as that, and I stand by what I said.

 

In terms of the "gotcha," I can't do it in just one word, one sentence.

 

It's that thread and the others which it ties to.

 

The time-course through which this played out is a long one -

 

We asked whether or not if the LPP would be able to address the then-newish TruSpeed - to which I, then, speculated, based on the available data (i.e. that it is an AL G8/G7 clone, that it would not).

 

He claimed that the LPP "handled" the TruSpeed just fine.

 

It did not.

 

Whether he was given this information by others, to me, as an end-consumer, was irrelevant.

 

AS SOMEONE WHO OWNS/USES THE LPP, AS SOMEONE WHO FURTHERMORE SUPPORTS THE LPP AND THEN COULD'VE JUST AS EASILY TAKEN HIS WORD AND PASSED IT ON TO OTHERS AS MY OWN RECOMMENDATION, this action exposed me to risk, and that is what is unacceptable to me, personally.

 

It is furthermore unacceptable - and I find this more a generalized application - is that I had to find this out for myself - as a hobbyist, as someone who does not make this his "business" of *any* form.

 

When such information should have, instead, come from the product's reseller, who not only should have noted this deficiency, but should also, once known, have taken active steps to note that his previous assertions were wrong (I don't quite remember how long it was, between the time I found out, and then time I posted on RR.net in those threads, but it was a not inconsiderable time-period, one which would've given him more than enough time to address the problem).

[PGT]

:rolleyes:

 

But again, how did that post cause you to infer I respected him?

 

'thanks for the honesty' and 'business ethics' - sounded to me like you were being respectful. Then again, you come out and say this here:

 

who is, BTW, so far, the only member of LPP's openly known North American network who has consistently been truthful to hobbyists and enthusiats, instead of spouting off lies and misinformation, such as this particular LPP representative - LPP_Rep/David/DMI-Sport/LPP-USA:

 

I did not infer anything from his lack of replies, only that he did not reply, and that all of my posts had been public - which is more than I can say for most of that industry/hobby.

 

you sure did. I don't know the background with respect to the TruSpeed situation (nor do I care to but YOU brought me into this thread) or why he may or may not have responded on that forum - I'm saying the reason why he did NOT respond (probably) has nothing to do with the situation like you are implying. Again, quit jumping to conclusions without talking to the guy. Pick up the phone and call him - have you ever done that?

 

<checks inbox - no PM from Allen>

[TSiWRX]

^ I still don't understand why I need to PM you.

 

Like I've said, I've said all I had to say in the open - there's no behind-closed-doors messages, no secrets. And in this industry and hobby, that is of vital importance.

 

Why do you NEED me to PM you?

 

When David (LPP_Rep on RR.net) and I discussed the TruSpeed concerns, there were no PMs. Why the need to do so now?

 

 

I brought you into this thread only as a citation that I had been (i.e. the LPP Group-Buy thread) - and remain - a steadfast supporter of LPP, if not of LPP_Rep/David/LPP-USA/DMI-Sport, since the very beginning. It was simply to prevent ZAPIT from even remotely taking an accusatory tone of "you [meaning me] must not like LPP." I never meant to involve you, otherwise.

 

'thanks for the honesty' and 'business ethics' - sounded to me like you were being respectful. Then again, you come out and say this here:

 

Respectful only of the fact that he came forward to recant his side of the story, after he's been found-out. That is as far as the respect extends.

 

When framed in the context of the full story, that he never actively sought to recall those earlier claims - which he never checked before maintaining their validity - I'm much less than impressed.

 

Earlier, you'd said that you wanted me to reference other posts for a "gotcha?"

 

I started to do so, but then realized that there's not even a need, for in that one simple post:

 

http://www.radarreviews.net/forums/13030-post44.html

 

I had already clearly defined the parameters of my thinking.

 

You're Net-savvy, from within that very post, you can backtrack to LPP_Rep's initial claim, against what I'd posted on this thread ( http://www.radarreviews.net/forums/laser/2811-save-10-lpp-laser-pro-park.html#post11718 ). You can clearly read what he wrote, last August.

 

You can also see that I'd written in a subsequent post in that very thread that I was, as a LPP user myself, "overjoyed" - and that was my very wording - at the fact that, based on information from him, the LPP can "handle" the TruSpeed.

 

I then said that I liked some proof - and then, no more reply.

 

You can also see that within that thread, it crosses tracks again, back to this thread:

 

http://www.radarreviews.net/forums/questions/2081-new-truspeed-laser-out-warning-also-some-thoughts.html

 

Basically, everywhere I had posted that I - and many others (including, by the way, long-time LPP users, such as ELVATO, another "Old Timer" on RadarDetector.net - doubted the performance of the LPP, based on what we'd seen of the AL G8 and G7, LPP_Rep had been quick to dismiss the issue, using technical language and supposedly offering technical insights where, we're left to find out later, there was none.

 

My outrage - and that of others in the community, and if you don't think that this is true, all you need to do is to check on RD.net - is based on the simple fact that we were led to believe that our countermeasures works, where it clearly does not, and where, as we later found out, the person making the claim had, himself, no concrete proof that the information he was fed was ever, in and of itself, correct.

 

As a consumer, I ask you, would you, yourself, not have been mad?

 

My anger, also, is focused.

 

I understood that he may have been fed misinformation - which is why I said what I did, that it proved him a good, honest, businessman in that he came forward to retract his statements, when finally "called out."

 

But at the same time, my anger remains undiluted when thinking of the way in which this deception (whether intentional or not - with "intent" covering knowledge, or lack thereof, of proof-positive of what was claimed by his supplier) was played upon all of us, including those who ACTIVELY trusted the LPP for their LIDAR defenses.

 

He claimed that the LPP did something which it did not, and that doesn't matter if he was fed bad information, information which he should have sought to verify, first-hand....and in-turn waited for someone in the community to have remembered what was posted earlier, and to await the call-out.

 

Why did he not remember what he'd claimed, and come forward, when he himself saw that it wasn't true, before being called-out?

 

Why am I not PM'ing you, PGT?

 

It's because none of this was secret or under the table. It's all out in the open, and EVERYONE who cares to spend 10 minutes reading can easily see how this all played out.

 

I never understood why you needed me to PM you. Why the need for secrecy in something that is totally aboveboard?

 

 

Read the posts. I don't think that you'll be at me, afterwards.

 

PGT, it's not just me. You'll find more than a handful who do not hold his words in the highest light, on RD.net, and many of these guys have extensive knowledge, experience greatly exceeding my own. I know you guys are personal friends, but at some point, you simply need to divorce what you know of him personally, and look at the facts as they've been presented. And yes, I do know that this is his hobby - but even a hobby requires an amount of dedication and knowledge, and from what happened here, it's clearly that both are lacking.

 

He put us, the LPP users, in danger, whether he intended to or whether he did so knowingly is something that, frankly, I really have no reason to speculate or debate, particularly as he came straight out and said that he was fed wrong/inaccurate information, and that this is what resulted in the aftermath.

 

The only thing that I'm concerned with is that he was forceful - as you can very well see in those cited posts (despite his insistance that he was relying on second-hand information, he gave no hint, in his original postings, that was the case) - in maintaining that the LPP faced no problems, at all, with the TruSpeed, and exposed those of us who already are users to significant risk, and also passed off the item as something that it was not, to newcomers. And furthermore, that he waited until he was called-out, before retracting statements which he supposedly, by that time, had already confirmed to be untrue.

 

Do I respect him for his apology, and owning up to the falsehoods? Yes.

 

But am I satisfied because of that? No.

 

And I hope that you can see why, if you were to divorce yourself of the fact that you know him, outside of this context.

 

I do not know him outside of this context, so in seeing things the way that I do, you'll see that I'm limited from my interactions online with him, and those interactions have not been positive. This is the same of why others on RD.net, hobbyists/enthusiasts in the speed-detection countermeasures community, also do not hold him in the highest light - because he's passed along inaccurate or false information in yet other cases.

 

And once more, I'll reiterate - I am not only saying this stuff, here.

 

I've said it openly on RadarReviews, while he was still there.

 

I've said it openly on RadarDetectors.net. I've said it openly on SpeedTrapHunter.

 

Virtually anywhere such issues cropped up, I've said it openly. This is neither the only place that I've cited this rather ugly history, nor is it the first time I've done so.

 

I have not whispered behind anyone's back. I have not said things behind closed doors. No Forum Private Messages, no "Instant Messages/Chats" or private phone-calls. Not even handwritten notes. What I say can all be verified via open-Forum posts, the history is plain as day, for *anyone* to see.

 

----

 

Aside:

 

We started hearing stirrings of the TruSpeed, in our community, in the first quarter of 2008. By mid-2008, Laser Interceptor had already implemented the "TruSpeed fix." By third-quarter 2008, Blinder and Escort proved their devices were capable of defeating the TruSpeed, too.

 

We're *still* left waiting, on the LPP front.

[Town]

I think Ken was just looking for advice on buying a nice radar detector, myself included, and you guys turned it into a 4 page flame war with the bottom part of one of TSi's posts on page 3 being the most useful info thus far (thanks btw). However, I do think TSi an agenda with this and over-reacted with a freaking TON of info for this forum, and weiner egged it on. (I assume) this zappy guy was never selling anything here, just saying what he does with about as much validity as any other random internet poster, regardless of job, and that is usually little. His posts were bias and somewhat misleading, if all you say is true, and of course he replied with some angst to your onslaught - but maybe he was just posting casually...as in non-work related, and you jumped him with some very aggressive posts and err...formats? I like the dbl spacing though, reads well, but your stance and short-fuse approach could stand to be less aggressive and hostile. Attorney?

 

It's kind of like the game Tank...you fire and wait for a response, and then take your turn again. You don't step in and fire all your ammo at the guy in one swoop with pre-flame just-in-case responses. But I do think you know your stuff on this, TSi, and probably have a point regarding the product and the validity of claims, etc.. Maybe just a little less "long-winded" unequally prodded reactions? . . . Don't attack me!!!

[TSiWRX]

^

 

Don't worry, no attack needed.

 

One of the reasons why I responded in such a heated manner is because this industry is one of the dirtiest you'll see.

 

The amount of back-door handshakes, the winks and nods, and the amount of backstabbing and double-crossing is truly shocking to the newcomer. I know that I was shocked, when I first set foot inside its circles...even just as a hobbyist, even as someone with no vested ties.

 

Heck, it's part of the reason why I'm still in that hobby (I tend to go through hobbies on an approx. 4-year basis). It's because it's as entertaining as daytime talk/reality shows.

 

I don't know if it because there's such a small market for the upper-tier stuff - but whatever it is, it causes the people involved to become absolutely nasty, all for just a single sale.

 

When ZAPIT mentioned that he sold the item, and then tried to pass it off for something which it is not, that really got my balls flaming, and it's precisely because of these past interactions (not with him, nor with, any other party, but rather, with *ALL* of what's happened in the past, in the countermeasures industry/hobby), which have been less-than-favorable, which triggered my outburst against him.

 

There's very little innocence in this game - so I try to defend what there is left of any decency, and to help newcomers *not* become tainted by the untruths and misinformation that's already present.

 

My goal - my ONLY goal - is simply to protect my fellow LGTers and Subaru owners/lovers, to help them NOT be talked into something by someone who is good with words or can spout a few lines of technical information.

 

And I do apologize about the rather lengthy and dense postings...it's hard to cover every angle, every contingency, without. And yep, I also just write too damned much, too.

 

Similarly, it was never my intent to discuss, at-length, my past interaction with LPP_Rep/David/DMI-Sport/LPP-USA. But as you can see, it's all very intertwined, and, as I hope that anyone who is following this thread can see, it's the technical details (if you can call the lack of abilty of a jammer to do its primary advertised job a "detail") that I'm always focused on.

 

We here demand proof from our tuners and our Vendors - that their maps show power gains on the dyno and that datalogs appear clean, that their products do the same.

 

Why would we insist anything but the same, from the makers of what is just yet another product for our vehicle?

 

I don't really want to waste anyone's time firing volley after volley, allowing the other party sufficient chance to confound or bury the issue. I want to simply shut it all down, right then and there, and I think that those who have followed the outlinks can see that this is easily the case. I'm not going to egg someone on, hoping to make a fool of them - I'm simply going to present overwhelming information so that there's no doubt in *anyone's* mind as to who is right, and who is wrong, what's truth, and what's lies.

 

The truth is the only thing that I am after.

 

 

And the truth is that the LPP is *not* a "superior product" as ZAPIT claimed.

 

Sure, it may not have been his intent to sell here, but then why even mention that he sells the product? Why the direct outlink? Why not just say "I use the LPP, and I think it's awesome, I think it's the best jammer there is?"

 

At least when people have done that, in the past, I've taken care only to dissect the issue on a technical basis, rather than to pursue an all-out shut-down of their sales pitches.

[mwiener2]

I don't know who got pwned anymore

[PGT]

(if you can call the lack of abilty of a jammer to do its primary advertised job a "detail")

 

you own an LPP but it doesn't work?

[TSiWRX]

you own an LPP but it doesn't work?

 

^ Before you laugh, since you have a vested interest in this, you should check on RD.net, and see how many of the more experienced/longer-term members, the ones who have the LPPs, are reporting moisture/water ingress problems.

 

This was something that I'd forgotten to mention prior , and I don't mean to utilize the strategy that Town put forward, to "bait and then kill," but now that this can of worms has been opened.......

 

No, I don't own just "an" LPP, I own two LPP systems - a single head for the rear, two heads for the front, run off of two separate control-boxes.

 

The rear head is having the now notorious triple-beep fault-indication issue (search on either RD.net or the dedicated LPP Support Forums, and you'll find numerous posts towards this), and is, via IR-light inspection, showing signs of moisture ingress.

 

This is a persistent problem that plagues that particular head design (of the AL G8/G7 clones, including the original ALs, but also the LPP, PASS, LaserStar, etc.) when extrapolated on the long term.

 

Currently, of the active LPP users that remain on RadarDetector.net, pretty much *ALL* have documented either ongoing/current water/moisture ingress problems and/or have documented past such problems which have yet to be resolved, mainly because, like me, we're simply waiting for LPP to take the next step, to properly address the TruSpeed issue, before claiming warranty (some of us have already been "preapproved" for warranty service, despite the heads being out-of-warranty by now).

 

Although this problem seems to still plague the LPP - whose quality has improved significantly since their separation from their Croatian mother, the problem still continues. It's not on nearly as bad of a scale as that of the old AL G8/G7, but it's still definitely and undeniably present, and typically crops up after 2+ years of road-use (as was mine). As the "6-month-time-bomb" issue (i.e. water/moisture-ingress after 6 months of road-use) of the AL heads turned many away from that product, this similar problem with the LPPs is quickly also becoming quite a stain on this jammer's reputation.

 

This problem seems to have been better addressed by the later clones, the PASS and the LaserStar, however, neither of their performances are up-to-par, even when compared against similarly out-dated devices (i.e. AL G8/G7 or LPP).

 

And that's what this wraps around to:

 

you own an LPP but it doesn't work?

 

The "it doesn't work" - your words - addresses the technical/performance issues of the LPP.

 

And no, I never said that it dosen't work - I simply stated that it fails to properly fulfill its technical duty: to jam police LIDAR.

 

Of what the community has seen as proof, from its fellow independent hobbyist members, this failure occurs in two instances - one, versus the LTI TruSpeed, and two, inconsistencies versus the Laser Atlanta.

 

So far, the only proof that we have in the community of a TruSpeed fix (note that there's no confirmation if this is a true US/NA-designated variant, or a Euro/Metric variant - I've described, previous, the critical distinction between the two) enabled box from LPP is a picture of a LPP c-box with a handwritten "TS" label/tag on it.

 

The Canadian LPP distributor, who initially released the Beta-variant's performance-test video, can only say that this first instance was a "Release Candidate" variant, and not true-production, but thinks that it is indeed USA/NA-designated. No independent hobbyist testing of this particular LPP box has yet been undertaken.

 

I'm now trying to find out if the second known instance of this box being in end-user hands has seen any testing.

 

Other than these instances, all that we know, of CONFIRMED independent testing of the 8.3 CAN-AU (100PPS "fix" enabled)/10.1 variant, the latest/current variant - given that the TS-fix enabled variant is still, at this point, an unknown - is that it will not even respond to the TruSpeed.

 

Similarly, of what we've been able to confirm of the latest/current variant, it still sees inconsistent performance, under testing conditions, versus the Laser Atlanta.

 

That, PGT, is how I frame the "doesn't work."

 

These are the jammer's inherent technical shortcomings - and since it is unable to properly perform its advertised duty as a police LIDAR jammer, versus all known Stateside/North-American devices (and I won't even get into the various European devices for which it has problems against), that's a pretty big shortcoming.

 

When all other LEGITIMATE offerings on-market today have proven their varying capabilities at jamming TruSpeed, and LPP has yet to properly and officially respond, with a production-release variant, in well over a year and a half?

 

That's a problem, a big one, as this particular game is one of cat-and-mouse, and the technology waits for no-one.

 

 

-----

 

 

I don't know who got pwned anymore

 

^ There is no pwnage here. Just the truth.

[joeaux]

To get this thread back on topic, Beltronics RX65. Works great. Saved me many, many times. Almost no false positives. The only downside to it that I have experienced is that sometimes it will give a false laser signal when the sun is very low on the horizon and you are driving straight into it (this happens very, very rarely). Good unit and not too expensive.

-joe-

[Town]

LIDAR seems to be fairly easy to beat in court depending on the state. Officer needs to assess a visual speed (1 sec), lift the gun (1 sec), and hold for what 5 seconds? So that's 7 seconds if he has it in his hand. Depending on the distance from the gun, which needs to be on the report/ticket, the angle of the gun (i.e. not a flat road), and your alleged speed you may be able to argue against their procedure to visually assess speed based on how many fps you were travelling versus the speed and distance claim on the ticket. And then there's the when/where/who/how the LIDAR was calibrated, which needs to be fairly recent. I understand it's still an issue for the claims of the company etc., and this will require a good attorney, but I'm not as worried about new LIDAR as I am the older units most officers are using with state and local funding cuts. Man, and those street cams are on the rise around here - huge revenue boost for the local govts, but thankfully not a moving violation.

 

I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong on this...

[CRAZY KEN]

WOW! I come back from my 4th of July vacation and see this!!!

 

WOW...hope I didn't get people all excited for nothing!!!

 

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

"CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG???" ; )

 

So Mr. Guru...GRAND MASTER>>>TSi+WRX- Thanks for your input and here are some factors that will help me narrow down my choices:

 

1. I live in MD, but travel to DC and VA a lot...I know detectors are illegal in VA, but DC I am not sure.

 

2. Portability would be nice, but I don't want to sacrifice performance/quality...and if VA cops see something on my windshield...I dont think a rdd is needed in that case! On the other hand, having the ability to take it from car to car is nice! ;[

 

3. Money is no issue...if it is worth it I'll buy it...back when I had my 99 LGT I had BelTronics integrated radar and laser detector and added the Laser jammer...totaled close ot $1500...and I never got a ticket. BUT I am hoping/praying I dont have to spend that much. Technology should be better and cheaper by now...at least I hope.

 

4. Detecting red light cameras is not a big issue...I don't run red lights, besides it gives me an opportunity to try out my BRAKES! ; ) 6-pot here I come! Speed cameras is my main concern...I have no idea where they are. Especially when traveling out of state. But it seems to me that the speed camera's radar is on 27/4 and that any detector should pick that up. I would be covered right? Would a jammer jam Speed/Red Light Cameras??? Hmmmm...I wonder!

 

My first interested is the best integrated detector & jammer money can offer. My second, is the best portable (cordless-battery powered if they make such a beast) money can offer detector. If they make a portable jammer as well I would be curious as well.

 

Thanks everyone for all your input again...I hope this thread can help out other people in some ways more than others...I know that this topic has been covered...I figured we needed an update!

 

 

Thanks again,

 

 

CRAZY KEN

[Town]

Ken, welcome back. We're in the same boat my friend. I'm in DC and drive to MD and VA daily.

Detectors are illegal in VA and DC. Even at the tolls and on the on/off ramps in VA the Po's will check for window stickers AND detectors. My coworker has a V1 mounted up high, sewn into the passenger visor of a G35 actually, and has never had any problems with detection.

Some of the local stationary cameras utilize the time it takes you to cross over the closely-spaced white lines (like on CT Ave) and makes a speed calculation based on the time it takes you to cross them, then that lane's respective camera flashes and you're toast. Not all work this way, though, and I'd be interested in knowing if it jams them as well.

Be careful on K st as well...I got LIDARed coming out of the tunnel by GWU back in September and I'm STILL paying for that one...No tix btwn now and Dec 18th and I'm good!

[TSiWRX]

To get this thread back on topic, Beltronics RX65. Works great. Saved me many, many times. Almost no false positives. The only downside to it that I have experienced is that sometimes it will give a false laser signal when the sun is very low on the horizon and you are driving straight into it (this happens very, very rarely). Good unit and not too expensive.

-joe-

 

^ Don't be disheartened, joeaux. That kind of falsing is very common for not only all detectors which have a sensitive enough LASER receptive circuitry to be able to effect a "save," but also for most jammers as well.

 

The RX has been around for a while now, but it's still one of the best-buys, when value is concerned.

 

LIDAR seems to be fairly easy to beat in court depending on the state. Officer needs to assess a visual speed (1 sec), lift the gun (1 sec), and hold for what 5 seconds? So that's 7 seconds if he has it in his hand. Depending on the distance from the gun, which needs to be on the report/ticket, the angle of the gun (i.e. not a flat road), and your alleged speed you may be able to argue against their procedure to visually assess speed based on how many fps you were travelling versus the speed and distance claim on the ticket. And then there's the when/where/who/how the LIDAR was calibrated, which needs to be fairly recent. I understand it's still an issue for the claims of the company etc., and this will require a good attorney, but I'm not as worried about new LIDAR as I am the older units most officers are using with state and local funding cuts. Man, and those street cams are on the rise around here - huge revenue boost for the local govts, but thankfully not a moving violation.

 

I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong on this...

 

^ Not at all, you're right -

 

However, it is just as you said/qualified: how successful your fight is, in-court, is highly dependent on (1) your knowledge level and (2) the officer's testimony - and, of course, your attorney, if you choose to use one (perhaps the smartest money spent, if you're a habitual speeder, and this is the honest opinion I give to my friends who are such aggressive drivers...abandon the countermeasures, and just bank the savings to an insurance-premium and attorney-fee account).

 

It's always two battles, one roadside, and one in court.

 

Ideally, all enforcers will have established a tracking record, but at least here in Ohio, it's been proven (via various YouTube videos as well as via the words of fellow trusted enthsuiasts) that even the highly-regarded (and I say this with all sincerity, as I very much admire their professionalism, as well as their tradecraft) Ohio State Police.

 

Many - and dare I say most - times, what's in the books, versus actual practice, are two completely different things, and this can be evidenced quite easily in the "rearview mirror" technique of not only LIDAR, but also even RADAR.

 

So Mr. Guru...GRAND MASTER>>>TSi+WRX- Thanks for your input and here are some factors that will help me narrow down my choices:

 

Please do not think of me as such - as many of my fellow countermeasures hobbyists and enthusiasts here can tell you, my knowledge only but scratches the surface.

 

I don't know much more than any other hobbyist/enthusiast in this area, but I'm happy to share what little I know to be true/correct, to try to help.

 

I'm just a basic guide, that's all.

 

1. I live in MD, but travel to DC and VA a lot...I know detectors are illegal in VA, but DC I am not sure.

You will want to save up, and get the Bel STi-Driver (if not step all the way off the deep-end, to the Escort 9500ci or the Bel STi-R remote units), unfortunately, none of the second or third-tier units will offer sufficient shielding against radar-detector-detectors (RDDs).

 

In all honesty, with Spectre RDDs and the heavy enforcement of those laws in that area, you're much better off just going fully cloaked, than to risk an additional whammy on your ticket with the detector.

 

2. Portability would be nice, but I don't want to sacrifice performance/quality...and if VA cops see something on my windshield...I dont think a rdd is needed in that case! On the other hand, having the ability to take it from car to car is nice! ;[

With enough attention paid to mounting/positioning, as well as proper care in "tactical usage," you'll be fine.

 

Typcally, the area just above our inside rearview mirror, the stippled "sun dots," gives an excellent semi-concealed place to place a detector. You'll have to take some special considerations to make sure that the detector stays in-place (as the stippling often makes it difficult for the suction-cups to gain the necessary purchase), as well as make sure that, through the rear windscreen, you don't see the detector's tell-tale display, but both of those are rather easily taken care of, with a little forethought.

 

There are those who take this a step further, and literally bury the detector inside the headliner or use, say, a CD-holder/pouch (on the driver's or passenger's side sun-visor) to conceal the detector. For an extreme example of such attention paid to "stealthing out," look here:

 

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/show-off-your-install/41651-v1-hidden-install.html

 

^ Suicidal4Life shows extreme dedication to the "tactical mindset" (see below, where I referenced VEIL Guy's review of the Bel STi-Driver) for his setup. If Suicidal4Life chose to drive his Mercedes through a detector-banned area, honestly, as long as he is running with-traffic, with someone who has a detector as a "cover," an enforcer would never be the wiser.

 

and here:

 

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/valentine-one/37713-rebinc-stealth-intall-2-0-v1-sr7.html

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/radar-detectors-general/39981-oem-kill-switch-finished.html

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/show-off-your-install/47312-auxilary-speaker-install.html

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/valentine-one/39648-how-v1-remote-audio-adapter-mod.html

 

^ REBinc's installs are just simply amazing, and shows not only "tactical mindset" to the utmost, but the professionalism of his installation is unparalled, even versus top-dollar AV shops.

 

Wiring can be cleanly run via "hardwiring," so there's no tell-tale coiled (or straight) cord in-view, and in doing so, you can also rig an in-line "kill-switch" in yet another inconspicuous place, so that you can absolutely and definitively shut-off the detector, so that there's no chance it'll betray you during an roadside enforcement interview. The BL/BP Legacy's ashtray compartment is very well suited to concealing the Escort/Beltronics remote mute SmartCord, and since you'll be bringing the wiring down to that area, you can easily rig a true kill-switch either right there, adjacent to this switch, or, alternatively, say, in the center-console area (i.e. between your seat and the console).

 

Remember that "tactical usage" should come into play, and this should be a two-prong'ed consideration:

 

First, to continue with the interior scheme, you'll want to be sure that not only is the switchgear easily concealed, but also that it can be easily actuated without presenting "tells" to the outside world. Yes, having the SmartCord mute or the kill-switch down by your shin, under the dash, may be a great place to put it for concealment, but it's going to be horrible in terms of not presenting "tells" to the outside, as you'll literally be bending yourself over in order to actuate the switch, and unless you've got Limo-tint all the way around (including your windshield), the enforcer's gonna know that something is up (forget the detector, even worse, he could think that you're concealing something even worse! ).

 

With our ashtray being close to the gearshift, that's always a good excuse - and furthermore, it should not telegraph, excessively, body/arm motion in actuating switchgear. You could even always say that you were just downshifting or turning down the radio. It's even better that it just closes away, out of sight.

 

Second, in terms of usage, I find that it is perhaps just easier to take the words of a noted enthusiast, instead of trying to do it myself. The VEIL Guy is one of the most dedicated enthusiasts in this field, his industry associations (he's the man behind the LaserVEIL Stealth Coating) notwithstanding. And oh, he's also a fellow BL-chassis owner, his wife drives an '08 Special Edition sedan. This was taken from his STi-Driver review, written in Feb. 2006, and embodies the "tactical mindset" that I speak of, above:

 

For other drivers, realize really astute officers will likely still be able to determine detector usage when your vehicle is targeted by their radar gun if you quickly decelerate (the normal response to an alert) which can be done visually - either by an abrupt drop of your vehicle's front-end under heavy breaking, a rapid decrease in speed readings on the radar gun, or from the rear by observing brake lights or by audio - listening to the rapid decrease in the RADAR's Doppler tone at point of trigger pull.

 

 

At any rate, be prepared with a good explanation as to how you "visually spotted" the officer at the same time he/she pulled the trigger of their police RADARgun.

 

 

Remember, a part of the stealth game is just as its name implies - not being noticed, and this extends to everything from how your devices are mounted, to how you use them.

 

I even know of people who carry a "throw away detector" - in countries where detectors are confiscated - just in case something like this happens. They've got a top-dog detector tucked-away, but they carry a crappy Cobra or other of the like, and hand over the "gift" when the enforcer demands.

 

3. Money is no issue...if it is worth it I'll buy it...back when I had my 99 LGT I had BelTronics integrated radar and laser detector and added the Laser jammer...totaled close ot $1500...and I never got a ticket. BUT I am hoping/praying I dont have to spend that much. Technology should be better and cheaper by now...at least I hope.

Better, yes.

 

Cheaper, sadly, no.

 

The market is a limited one, and it's one that "will pay." So, pretty much, you're at the same price-point, if your desire is an integrated detector/jammer combo (such as the Bel STi-R plus Escort ZR4 combo, or the Escort 9500ci, which includes the ZR4 as a complete package) or, alternatively, is a similar budget for a top-dog detector plus jammer combo.

 

Realistically, given that your minimum need, in Virginia/DC, would be a Bel STi-Driver, you'll be budgeting at least $500 for the detector - and the addition of a laser jammer for the front of the vehicle would be approx. $700 more (or $1000, if you also desire rear-of-car LIDAR jamming protection).

 

4. Detecting red light cameras is not a big issue...I don't run red lights, besides it gives me an opportunity to try out my BRAKES! ; ) 6-pot here I come! Speed cameras is my main concern...I have no idea where they are. Especially when traveling out of state. But it seems to me that the speed camera's radar is on 27/4 and that any detector should pick that up. I would be covered right? Would a jammer jam Speed/Red Light Cameras??? Hmmmm...I wonder!

Currently, there are no active/passive solutions that are "100%," in term of "jamming" or otherwise "defeating" such cameras.

 

Various plate-covers/sprays/photo-flash devices can work, but that is dependent highly upon camera type and the physical conditions of each encounter. There's unfortunately no guaranty what works for one camera, or in one area, will work for another.

 

As such, the best - and only - solution would be to know, ahead of time, when you're facing one of these threats.

 

In this case, various GPS-based solutions are your best bet, and with sufficient foreknowledge (advance warning) of such areas, it also makes you a much safer driver, overall, for, statistically, such areas tend to also be the most dangerous.

 

Most aftermarket GPSs either have their own dedicated databases for such concerns or, alternatively, you can source such a "Point-of-Interest" map, marking speed cameras, red-light cameras, etc., from either various commercial resources or even free, from the likes of Trapster.

 

Similarly, there exists dedicated GPS-based resources for this kind of stuff. The Escort/Bel GPS-enabled detectors (Escort 9500ci, 9500ix and 9500i, as well as the Bel GX65) utilize a proprietary "Defender Database," which is itself a licensed from SpeedCheetah, and is thus based on the Trinity Database, which is perhaps the most comprehensive and best-maintained of its genre. And speaking of the Cheetah products, their GPS-Mirror as well as the C100 stand-alone (keyfob remote sized) also offer these capabilities.

 

My first interested is the best integrated detector & jammer money can offer.

For your first interest, it seems, more and more, that the 9500ci would best-fit your bill.

 

The detector is completely "remote," which will allow true integration and "stealth" mounting of all but the LIDAR jammer heads (which must retain full visualization of the road) externally, and will allow for you to even completely hide all internal components (including the main display, as it is also equipped with a discrete-use bi-phase LED, which you can, say, tuck behind the driver's side AC-vent, so that *you* can see it, but is totally "invisible" to those outside your direct sightlines). It is also fully SPECTRE RDD invisible.

 

[ Note: Yes, the RADAR antenna can be placed behind our composite bumper skin, to make it absolutely invisible, but you'll likely suffer *some* level of sensitivity loss - this may be academic, though, as the sensitivity loss is rather insignificant for all but the most hard-core detector enthusiast, who is doing a direct-comparison between products. In the real-world, it is plenty sensitive enough. ]

 

The problem with the 9500ci is two-fold:

 

(1) Its LIDAR jamming prowess, with the ZR4, isn't on-par with the other top-dogs. It's not bad, and in most real-world scenarios, will perform more than well enough to effect a "save" - but it's certainly a notch below that of the now outgoing Blinder M25.

 

(2) There remains some question as to the "logic" behind the AutoLearn GPs-based "false lock-out" routine, as to whether if the programming may still be somewhat buggy and/or the filtering perhaps too aggressive. While "locking out a true-LEO signal" can be eliminated via proper usage of the device's TrueLock feature (again, I'll highly recommend you read, in-detail, CJR123's detailed posting of the "Tricks and Tips"), this particular concern is, if you will, layered above and over, and still proves puzzling to us.

 

My second, is the best portable (cordless-battery powered if they make such a beast) money can offer detector.

Unfortunately, battery-power is a problem.

 

The Escort SOLO is the best of its kind, but even then, it's woefully inadequate, due to its integral (i.e. you can't avoid it) power-management scheme, given that it functions off 2 common AA batteries.

 

You'll simply have to go corded, and again, if you have VA/DC or other detector-banned areas as a concern, you'll want to stick with the Bel STi-Driver.

 

You can rather easily fold these two needs of yours into one, though, for with enough attention paid to the mounting of the detector and its control gear, you can easily make the detector just as "invisible" as the 9500ci's "remote" external setup and its customized interior control-gear layout.

 

If you have two or more family vehicles, for example, that you routinely drive, you can simply wire each vehicle with the necessary hardwire tract, and remove the detector from the vehicle you're driving and put it in the other vehicle, once the wiring is in-place, as a "plug and play."

 

This is essentially what I do with my wife's car, for both the Cheetah GPS-Mirror as well as my x50. The mirror is just for me (she doesn't like the "safety mirror" aspect of it, the convex-lens), so I cross-fit it to her vehicle when we go on trips - and the x50 is stored in the console, and I take it out and plug it in, when I'm driving.

 

In using the Bel STi-Driver, you'll still be able to integrate with an Escort ZR4, if that is your desire, or, alternatively, you can pair it with another stand-alone jammer. In my wife's '09 Forester XT, which I cite above, the old 8500x50 is hardwired in, and paired with a Laser Interceptor. Since the vehicle is a lease, the entire install is non-permanent, and I've used a simple RadioShack project enclosure to enclose both the Escort SmartCord as well as the power button for the Laser Interceptor:

 

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u259/TSi_WRX/ControlsClose.jpg

 

( The big plug-in device to the left is the 12V quick-recharger for my wife's cell-phone, and the device in the recesses of that cubby is an auxiliary mirror that fits atop the interior rearview, to keep an eye on my daughter in the back, for when I take longer trips with her in my wife's car; in my car, the wide-angle GPS-Mirror takes care of that... please pay no mind to the clutter. )

 

You'll find an excellent write-up as to how to take apart your Bel/Escort SmartCord for such a project, written by mwiener2/Leg-GT Chris, here:

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11041&highlight=escort

 

Basically, what I did above was to use the procedures detailed in the above thread (which I still think is one of the best walk-through illustrations of this particular procedure....other write-ups exist, but this is the one I keep referring people back to), and place the LI's switch just to the other side. The entire "project enclosure" is then fastened to the top of the cubby so that it's within easy reach, using RadioShack's "SuperLock" fastener, which is akin to VELCRO, except using 3M's awesome VHB adhesive, which is quite resilient for automotive interior uses, and yet will still "release clean" when the time comes.

 

If they make a portable jammer as well I would be curious as well.

It is possible to utilize the Blinder as well as PASS/LPP/AL products via a remote power package, utilizing the Cheetah Wireless Fitting Kit, thus allowing for portability between two cars provided that you further figure out a way to "quick disconnect" the heads and the in-cabin control-gear (which may be easier, if you obtained two sets of interior control gear), but overall, this is going to take some doing.

 

It is also possible to rig a semi-quick-portable (from what I envision, sitting here, it'll likely take about 30 minutes to cross-fit between two vehicles) setup, if you're smart with wiring, but again, this is not something that's going to be nearly as easy as unplugging a stand-alone, in-cabin radar detector from one car's 12V supply, and plugging it into another.

[TSiWRX]

KMy coworker has a V1 mounted up high, sewn into the passenger visor of a G35 actually, and has never had any problems with detection.

 

^ Bingo!

 

Yep, this is precisely the kind of "stealthing out" that I wrote above (sorry, that post took a while to compose ). Good for him!

 

CRAZY KEN, see, this is not all that uncommon.

 

For more inspiration, have a look on the RadarDetector.net Forums, you'll see that there are many threads which show a variety of means of concealing a detector. The V1, although not Spectre-invisible, nevertheless affords its user amazing customization/integration possibilities, as it can be had with a remote-display unit which, as you've seen in the examples I've cited above, can be *quite* useful in terms of concealing the display ( or even allow its integration into our stock cluster, if you choose to take things that far - look at Puzzled's amazing work: http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61800&highlight=remote ).

 

There's guys who use foot-pedals (from, say, an electric musical instrument) as their mute button, there's guys who've sewn/slotted the detector into the headliner or headrests, etc.

 

You're limited only by the basic rules of RADAR/LIDAR reception/detection, and your imagination.

 

Spectre-invisibility is, I would say, important - if you live or drive through a detector-forbidden area.

 

But it's not a deal-breaker, given, relatively, how well-shielded top-flight detectors are - as long as you're in a pack of cars, and your actions don't somehow betray the fact that you're using a detector (see what I quoted of VEIL Guy, above), you truly should be fine.

 

Some of the local stationary cameras utilize the time it takes you to cross over the closely-spaced white lines (like on CT Ave) and makes a speed calculation based on the time it takes you to cross them, then that lane's respective camera flashes and you're toast. Not all work this way, though, and I'd be interested in knowing if it jams them as well.

Unfortunately, like I said above, there are no *reliable/consistent* solutions for stationary-mounted, automated, devices.

 

As such, your best-chance is forewarning and foreknowledge.

[ArcTec34]

wowowow.. Tsi just wrote his first book! and this is why I just won't bother doing anything more with lidar/radra/laser stuff for my car.. too much for me...

[TSiWRX]

^

 

It's really just a hobby. I rarely even speed (it's the same reason why I've gone "Stage II" early on since I've had my car, and continue to putz around with it and still slowly amassing parts to go bigger turbo - yet, I rarely tip into boost), and my wife's always making fun of me for what seems like a pointless pursuit.

 

It's just what I enjoy, as a geek, that's all.

 

And truthfully, plenty of my fellow hobbyists know much, much more than I do, which is why I so often cite posts/threads from places like RadarDetector.net .

 

I'm just good at the general-knowledge stuff.

 

When you delve into specifics, LASER-jamming becomes somewhat my specialty, but it's still nowhere near as extensive as the guys who are *truly* devoted to that sub-genre, and are literally testing their and their friends' setups every week or even every day.

 

It's a hobby.

[joeaux]

Thanks for the reply about the Laser TSi+WRX. Good info. Much appreciated!

-joe-

[TSiWRX]

^ No problem, glad to assist!

 

I notice that your "Location" reads "Central Florida."

 

You've got an *AWESOME* group of independent hobbyists/enthusiasts in that area. Check on RadarDetector.net Forums, and hook-up with them. In no-time, your knowledge and know-how will greatly exceed mine!

[CRAZY KEN]

....Thanks for the detailed Radar Detector/Jammer 101-105 Lesson!

 

I will take it into consideration...I am already leaning towards the Beltronics piece since I have had so much success with it in the past...I will also look into the Passport pieces too!

 

2 Last questions:

 

1. TINT - I have a 6-8 inches of 5% limo tint as a sun strip on my front windshield and 30% in the rear window - 3M with some type of polarization element/UV protection (i.e. the good stuff). Would this interfere with performance for front and rear readings?

 

2. Who has the best prices for Beltronics & Passport?

 

Thanks,

 

Ken

[joeaux]

^ No problem, glad to assist!

 

I notice that your "Location" reads "Central Florida."

 

You've got an *AWESOME* group of independent hobbyists/enthusiasts in that area. Check on RadarDetector.net Forums, and hook-up with them. In no-time, your knowledge and know-how will greatly exceed mine!

 

Sweet, thanks! Will do!

-joe-

[TSiWRX]

^ Look up ELVATO, Cbr, and, of course, Cliff from Laser Interceptor.

 

Cliff's somewhat distanced himself from that group, due to his industry ties, but he's always been known as a fair tester - and one who also won't try any selling tactics (unlike steagall1000, who somehow manages to remain a Blinder dealer).

 

ELVATO and Cbr are founding members of that group, and are both dedicated enthusiasts who continue to remain helpful to newcomers.

 

I'm positive you'll have a great time with them.

 

One of the biggest things to learn would be the performance envelope of your countermeasures, as well as how well your overall defense system performs, and if anything can be done to optimize its performance. Every car, every setup, is different, and this kind of information can only be had via first-hand testing.

 

Even if you don't have a laser jammer setup - which is primarily what is tested by these individual groups, as virtually all of today's top-flight, second (where the RX resides), and even third-tier detectors perform more than well enough to make most "testing" rather hard to accomplish - their testing can still help you pinpoint LIDAR hot-spots on your vehicle, as well as perhaps help you adjust your detector's mounting to better help "survive" a LIDAR attack, if those are frequent in your area, and your chief concern.

 

 

-----

 

 

....Thanks for the detailed Radar Detector/Jammer 101-105 Lesson!

 

No need to thank me, again, I'm just glad to offer what little help I can. I'm by no means a know-all or guru in this area, and I can only hope to offer basic guidance.

 

I will take it into consideration...I am already leaning towards the Beltronics piece since I have had so much success with it in the past...I will also look into the Passport pieces too!

 

FWIW, several of the "advanced" hobbyists/enthusiasts have switched over from the 9500ci to the STi-R, mainly due to the "unpredictability" of the "AutoLearn" filtering logic and A/I. Still, this will be, I think, a personal-level consideration, as what each of us seek in a detector is different than another ( which is why I always just advise potential buyers to take advantage of the "30-day test drive" offers from Escort and V1, of their in-vehicle stand-alone detectors, to see which one fits them best, as true unique individuals ).

 

2 Last questions:

 

1. TINT - I have a 6-8 inches of 5% limo tint as a sun strip on my front windshield and 30% in the rear window - 3M with some type of polarization element/UV protection (i.e. the good stuff). Would this interfere with performance for front and rear readings?

 

With LIDAR, potentially. However, given that you're going to invest in either the ZR4 - either as a part of the 9500ci package or to integrate with either the Bel STi-R or STi-Driver - or you're going to invest in other primary LIDAR defenses (translation: another jammer), you won't really need to worry about this.

 

As long as the tint is not metallic, you'll be fine in terms of RADAR reception.

 

[ Aside: Remember that only the V1 has a separate rear antenna and separate rear LIDAR receiver (for this latter consideration, it is only valid in terms of in-vehicle, stand-alone detectors, as many external-to-vehicle "remote" modules include a separate rear LIDAR detector/jammer head). To-date, all other in-vehicle, stand-alone detectors offer only a primary forward LIDAR receiver, and utilize some form of "light pipe" to convey "rear" shots to this front receiver for an alert. Similarly, to-date, all other detectors (period) utilize only a forward RADAR horn, and rely on ambient-surroundings "reflecting" RADAR waves to this antenna, in order to pick up signals from "the rear." This is not only the reason why the V1 is a true "locator," but is also why the V1 is just so exceptional on "open highway/country" scenarios, where its rear antenna means that even if there's just flat land all around you, it'd still "see" rear incoming. ]

 

2. Who has the best prices for Beltronics & Passport?

 

Go for "Authorized Resellers" only.

 

Bel and Escort - the same company - are very, very strict on their warranty policies, and will only honor warranty from "Authorized Resellers."

 

They each, via their opening homepage, have a listing of "UN-Authorized Resellers" listed, and these are to be avoided like the plague.

 

Typically, I recommend buying direct from the manufacturer. If you prefer to go through a secondary source, I recommend either BuyRadarDetectors.com or RadarBusters.com .

[CRAZY KEN]

...Beltronics all the way!

 

STi-Driver (no - not because it says "STi")

https://www.beltronics.com/store/sti-driver.html

List Price: $499.95

 

Reasons for buying

-UNDETECTABLE ( No worries when driving in DC and VA)

-Portability ( So I can use it between vehicles...I'll hardwire it to my car and use the cig cord for mobility)

-360 coverage (I'll have to check if 3M is metallic or not, if so off it goes)

-Cost over integrated system (Can't beat the price...and flexibility)

-Best windshield mounted Beltronics has to offer (My windshield is cracked anyways...so when I replace it I'll just make sure the tint isn't metallic or the black area where the rear view mirror is isn't tinted!)

 

Shifter ZR4 (I believe I had this before or it's predecessor back when I had my 99LGT)

https://www.beltronics.com/store/shifter-zr4.html

List Price: $449.00

 

Reasons for buying

-Linkable to the STi

-A great jammer for the money

-Speed of Light Protection

 

I believe this combo will suit me just fine...thanks everyone once again for all your input and helping me decide. Again much thanks to TSi+WRX!!! UDAHMAN!!!

 

CRAZY KEN

[TSiWRX]

^ Best of luck!

 

And remember, drive as-if you had no detector. It's just a tool to further enhance your overall situational awareness!

 

Your best countermeasures are still your eyes, and that soft and squishy thing between the ears!

[fishbone]

So the Bel RX65 is still a good buy if on a budget. Good to know, I've had it on my purchase list for years now, ever since it was top dog, but the budget always seems to be eaten up by some other endeavor.

 

Crazy Ken, copy of your avatar full size. NOW

[TSiWRX]

^ @ avatar!

 

OK, seriously - yes, fishbone, that's still a very good buy - I've seen them go for cheap on the secondary market, too, if budget is a concern.

 

Honestly, though, I would, at this point, wait for the next GOL test, as there's been so many new Whistler units, upgrades to their pre-existing lineup, that you'll want to see how they perform in comparison to the "standards" of the second and third tiers of years past, to be sure you're getting the absolute best value for your money!