Final Suspension List? Gaah!

[mustangendsley]

talk to any real racer and they will disagree with coilovers for a daily driving car. it is a waist of money to have $1700+ under each wheel and you live it in one setting and not touch the coilover again. but I guess this can be debatable by anyone. just my opinion. I have found Tokico's for around $525, but I cant remember were. most place will work with the price.

[subaruski]

I still think I'm going to go with the Koni + Rallitek setup. Don't plan on tracking my car, just want something better for daily driving.

 

I went through the same thing with my 98Impreza. Coilovers vs Strut/Spring. Ended up getting Prodrive WR Bilsteins. They where damn expensive at $1700 plus group N top mounts but wow were they amazing for a street car. I really wish there was a setup like this for the Legacy.

 

Also on a side note is the only top mount up grade the Spec Bs? Which raise the car a bit in the front if im correct?

[Underdog]

talk to any real racer

 

What is this, the fast and the furious?

 

and they will disagree with coilovers for a daily driving car.

Really? Talk to Myles at RaceComp engineering... I'm pretty sure he has a better idea than you or the "real racers".

 

it is a waist of money to have $1700+ under each wheel

Actually, it is $1,700/4 = $425 per wheel. Considering it is a critical aspect of the suspension and overall cars performance, comfort and safety... I don't think $425 is exorbitant.

 

and you live it in one setting and not touch the coilover again.

Or touch it again as many times as you want. Tokicos, Konis and most coilovers all have adjustable rebound damping.

[whitetiger]

IMO, dont get the PSRS, and get AVO or superpro LCA offset bushings instead. Less NVH.

[whitetiger]

Buy the best dampers you can afford. Even if it means other stuff will have to wait. They are the most important part of a good suspension.

 

 

pretty much the best advise in this thread.

[mustangendsley]

lets put it this way, I don't want to get this into a bitching conversation. Anyone who has the strut and spring combo will say go with that. Anyone who has coilovers say go with that. yes the spec B mount will raise the front on the car a little. I herd that you might have to use the saggy butt shims in the back 3/8.

[NSFW]

Are Tokico cheaper anywhere then the $625 crucial is charging for Konis?

 

You could save a whole four dollars...

http://www.fastwrx.com/tohtssh.html

 

But you should factor in the top-hats as well, which puts you over the price of Konis.

[robinlsb]

+ on the roll center kit and add in the caster kit. The RC kit makes the biggest difference, the caster kit is just icing.

 

As for the roll bars the question is not diameter but stiffness. MY preference is stiff bars and soft springs. At least on a road car.

[Underdog]

lets put it this way, I don't want to get this into a bitching conversation. Anyone who has the strut and spring combo will say go with that. Anyone who has coilovers say go with that. yes the spec B mount will raise the front on the car a little. I herd that you might have to use the saggy butt shims in the back 3/8.

 

Keep the Bilsteins... they are the B in your spec.b .

 

Wrong again?

 

I'm not picking a fight, honestly. I used to think coilovers were overkill until I actually tried them. Would they still be overkill for some/most people... yes! However replacing a working strut for no reason other than hobby-value is considered overkill by a much larger segment of the population.

[caramall2]

+1 On going piece by piece...it really helps to see what each part does.

 

If you're going to do track time, I'd do:

• Tires (I really like high performance summer tires for daily driving...I just swap out in the winter. I also have R-compounds for the track, but for most casual trackers, HP summers are fine on the track. I recommend Dunlop Z1 Star Spec...really good performer wet and dry, hold up on the track, and very good price.)
  
• Sways (I have Cusco...23 front, 21 rear I think; 2005 wagon)
  
• Front Endlinks (Rallitek ball and socket are my favorite up front (my set up is at some bigger angles so I need ball and socket)
  
• Coilovers: I bought Zeals and was very happy with them...quality stuff. I have fairly stiff springs and they are still moderately good for daily driver. I love the adjustability of coilovers, but get GOOD quality ones.
  

Then, after that (not sure on Spec B, but for my 2005 wagon):

• AVO LCA bushings
  
• Whiteline Roll Center Kit
  

The above really made the suspension mcuh more compliant over jolting bumps like train tracks (I think the whiteline kit helped a lot with that to align the suspension) and give a more solid feel.

 

After that if you want to do all the frame braces, go for it (I think the front strut tower bar is a waste). I have the Cusco underbody front brace.

 

For brakes, at the very least:

• Upgrade pads: I suggest a good higher performance street pad for the street, and then at least a lower end track pad for the track (XP8, XP10, etc.). Some will use high perf street at the track, but I prefer to jump straight to something with a higher temp range. PM me about some brand new track pads I could hook you up with for a discount.
  
• Upgrade brake fluid (Prospeed 610, Motul, etc.)
  
• Caliper compressor...nice tool for the track when you'r trying to put in a brand new pair of pads on fairly new rotors and it's a tight fit. Like $8 at a parts store.
  

Brakeswap has been good to me and they can hook you up for brake gear.

 

Remember for the track, the part that needs the most upgrade is YOU (and me)....the driver. I'm guilty at times of getting caught up in lots of mods and not working enough on my driving skill.

[SubieBound]

I have read each post with diligence and have taken as much into account as possible. Here is revision number 2: (anything in bold is changed or new)

 

1. Perrin 22mm front sway-bar

 

2. Perrin 22mm rear sway-bar

 

3. Perrin front endlinks

 

4. Perrin rear endlinks

 

5. Cusco Front Lower Arm Bar (type II)

 

6. Cusco Rear Lower Arm Bar Set (type II)

 

7. GT Spec front strut bar

 

8. GT Spec rear strut bar

 

9. AVO Caster Adjustment Bushing System

- Correct me if I am wrong, but are these the "AVO LCA bushings" that everybody is referring to? Didn't know what the 'L' stood for haha

- This is to replace the Perrin Positive Steering Response System (PSRS)

 

10. Whiteline Subaru Legacy GT Roll-Center & Bump-Steer Kit

- Once again, I am assuming this is the kit people are talking about?

 

11. Racecomp Engineering Tarmac 1 Coilovers

- Are these the "best" coilovers/dampers I can find?

- Their website carries a lot, but are these the only available for Legacy GT?

- I will indeed buy the "best dampers" that are available, but are these the ones? (I guess "best" is a relative term though)

 

As one may have noticed, Tein is no longer on the list. I really need longevity and rust after 3 winters is absolutely NOT an option. I'm paying for quality, not short-term fun.

 

The list is slowly coming together

 

Also, where can I purchase RCE Tarmacs from besides from RCE themselves? I noticed that neither FredBeans Parts nor RalliTek carry their line.

 

Abundance thanks once again for all of your help!!!

[spec.b]

from what I understand the tarmacs are a set of kw variant 2's that are "pre-configured" meaning the height, and dampening are preset for you to save you some adjustment time.

[Underdog]

Actually, KW makes a configuration of their V2 which RCE spec'd out with revised damping and with "race" springs which are supposedly lighter than the standard springs. Rates are available in 350, 400, 450, and 500 Lbs/in.

 

They do come preset to your requested height and stiffness but it is very easy to adjust.

 

I don't work for RCE, just a satisfied customer.

[nm]

lets put it this way, I don't want to get this into a bitching conversation. Anyone who has the strut and spring combo will say go with that. Anyone who has coilovers say go with that. yes the spec B mount will raise the front on the car a little. I herd that you might have to use the saggy butt shims in the back 3/8.

I have coilovers (RCE) and didn't unreservedly recommend coilovers.

 

just to throw this in, but I was thinking of the tokico hts struts and pinks. i herd that the tokico are good also. they are adjustable also.

Why would he replace his bilstiens with Tokicos?

 

I

11. Racecomp Engineering Tarmac 1 Coilovers

- Are these the "best" coilovers/dampers I can find?

- Their website carries a lot, but are these the only available for Legacy GT?

- I will indeed buy the "best dampers" that are available, but are these the ones? (I guess "best" is a relative term though)

 

As one may have noticed, Tein is no longer on the list. I really need longevity and rust after 3 winters is absolutely NOT an option. I'm paying for quality, not short-term fun.

 

The list is slowly coming together

 

Also, where can I purchase RCE Tarmacs from besides from RCE themselves? I noticed that neither FredBeans Parts nor RalliTek carry their line.

 

Abundance thanks once again for all of your help!!!

Define best.

You can get one-off Ohlins or Penskes. You can get DMS coilovers.

these are $5-10k options and are realkly for racing.

You can import the bilstien PSS9s which are as good as the RCEs, possibly slightly better.

For $2k or less (maybe a bit more), the RCEs are the best. Unlimited budget, I'm going ohlin, penske, or DMS. Then again, unlimited budget I'm buying a ZR-1 vette.

These are the only RCE coils for them

Buy them from RCE, you may need to wait a while as they ship from the fatherland. If they don't have them in stock it will be a few weeks. Worth it.

 

I'd get them corner balanced after you install them.

[SubieBound]

Unlimited budget, I'm going ohlin, penske, or DMS. Then again, unlimited budget I'm buying a ZR-1 vette.

 

Point made! RCE it is then. Is there anything missing from the list? I've heard people talk about camber plates or something. Could someone educate me on these? Can I just stick with stock with the setup I'm leaning towards?

 

Thanks!

[Th3Franz]

Camber plates give you an extra range of camber adjustibility. Basically you can leave the stock camber bolts set to a certain point and then dial in more or less camber by sliding the strut inboard or outboard. Camber plates are great if you are going to be tracking the car. The only downside is that they are made of metal so they add some NVH to the car. For now I just run -2 deg full time with Spec B Tophats. You can always add camber plates later on, so stock style tophats should be fine for now I'd say

[caramall2]

Most coilovers have camber plates already...another plus for coilovers. At the track, just increase camber a degree or so, after, drop it back down in to the premarked position for daily driving...that's what I do. In fact I just hung out in the alignment shop when they aligned my car and played with the coilovers to mark where I want them for track and street--this eliminated just "guessing".

[katalyst]

are you really tracking your car or not?

 

camber plates are going to increase NVH otherwise i believe the RCE tarmacs use the rubber uppermounts from the spec b

[nm]

Camber plates give you an extra range of camber adjustibility. Basically you can leave the stock camber bolts set to a certain point and then dial in more or less camber by sliding the strut inboard or outboard. Camber plates are great if you are going to be tracking the car. The only downside is that they are made of metal so they add some NVH to the car. For now I just run -2 deg full time with Spec B Tophats. You can always add camber plates later on, so stock style tophats should be fine for now I'd say

How the hell did you get -2 without camber plates? (Or do you have bolts?)

I have -1.6 on RCEs and spec B tophats (no bolts, no other mods that would change camber)

Honestly, it is fine, but a bit more would be better. I'd recommend camber plates for track/auto-x, and I think i';d have done it next time. But I'm not going to deal with it now, at least until i need a shock rebuild.

[SubieBound]

are you really tracking your car or not?

 

 

Probably not all that much. I go maybe twice a year during the summer, but besides that, I don't think it's too vital that I have camber plates put in and suffer increased NVH.

 

Okay, this is a noob question, but what is the relationship/difference between these three items?

 

1. Whiteline Subaru Legacy GT Steering Rack Bushing Kit

2. AVO Caster Adjustment Bushing System

3. AVO Steering Shaft Mount Bushings

 

Are 1 and 3 the same thing? Is one anymore important than the either when comparing to the setup I'm going for?

 

Sorry for the myriad of questions haha I'm just trying to make sure I do things correctly the first time

[whitetiger]

1 and 3 are the same i think. 2 is a LCA bushing, and 1 and 3 are steering rack bushings. none ofe them increase NVH beyond tolerable levels.

[SubieBound]

1 and 3 are the same i think. 2 is a LCA bushing, and 1 and 3 are steering rack bushings.

 

Is it necessary to install 1 or 3 if I already plan on purchasing the "Whiteline Subaru Legacy GT Roll-Center & Bump-Steer Kit"? It seems like they hold nearly the same function.

[whitetiger]

no, the bump steer kit consists of new tie rod ends and ball joints that reposition the control arm and tierod back in to proper specs on a lowered car. that eliminates bumpsteer associated with a lowered car. 1 and 3 are just rack bushings designed to take the slop out of the steering which helps increase initial steering response and overall feel.

[SubieBound]

Thank you Whitetiger!

[wpmarky]

items 2 & 3 are the equivalent of the PSRS you originally wanted, but not as harsh.