TeeLoo Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='mudd']The main reason was because there is no power in the 2.5 165hp engine. Especially when trying to merge and pass. This usually is happening around 2000 - 2500 rpm. It gets dangerous because I pull out and have no power to accelerate so I have be careful for people coming up behind me.[/quote] Is it not just a matter of downshifting in order to get your RPM higher (3,000+)? Most cars don't even generate 165 hp (jetta, civic, focus, mazda protégé, etc.) and would manage fine under the situation you're describing. You could probably manage the downshifting even with a 2.5i 4EAT. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your power issue... 2005 Legacy GT Wagon Ltd 5EAT Garnet Red 1999 GTI VR6 Black - sold but not forgotten... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 I think he wants to know how mmuch of the 250/250 is going to be available in the lower rpm ranges, the first dyno plot will be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Maybe this could give us a little idea of the torque curve? [img]http://www.cobbtuning.com/forester/images/forxt-dyno.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='Sub-attraction']I browsed each of the models on subaru.com and the only models that show the tire pressure monitoring were the 3.0 Outback models (llbean, VDC and Sedan). [/quote] I was under the impression that the GT was also going to get tire pressure monitoring. I thought that was mentioned in the original press release. :( Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryS Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='mudd'] ...Now I'm reading that the xt has a deadspot below 3000. Does this mean I'm going to have the same problem? I read that the turbo kicks in at 3000 rpm. On my OBS, I'm at 3000 rpm when I'm doing 70mph. That isn't going to help me at lower speeds. Do I have this right? I hope I'm wrong... [/quote] mudd: I just drove an Outback XT auto last night (I wanted to drive a GT, but this was the first turbo they had, so I said what the heck...) As for power, there seems to be plenty of it, even pulling away from a stop, the boost came on very quickly as I dipped into the throttle. I don't think passing/merging power will be a concern at all. I did feel a little of the on/off nature of the turbo that was mentioned in one of the mag articles, which surprised me a bit considering everything else we've heard so far talks about smooth power delivery. Otherwise, the car (should I say truck?) drove very smoothly with plenty of power on tap at all times. Handling, although I've heard that it's good, pleasantly surprised me - well controlled with little body roll. Also, I can't say enough about the transmission; very smooth, hard to feel the shifts. I didn't play with the sportshift options much, but I did notice that it went to the gear selected and stayed there until I picked another one - pretty cool! Overall it was very enjoyable to drive and deceptively fast (as others have said) and the EL gaues are very nice as well. Based on my test drive of the heaviest turbo in auto trim, I can't wait to drive the GT 5 speed!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoldonSubie Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Mudd: I have to agree with the others here. The issue isn’t necessarily at what speed the engine produces the torque it’s how do you manipulate the drive train (transmission) to get to that speed. Sounds like you have a 4EAT on your OB Sport. I’ve got the same transmission on my 01 OB Wagon (Legacy) with the NA 2.5 engine. If I’m merging at 20MPH and jump on the gas or even downshift the auto to first the lowest the car will go is 2nd gear at the aforementioned 1,900-2,100 RPM. A real dog. The new GT with either transmission will downshift at will. Even the auto. Even without using the sportshift. Just jump on the gas and it’ll go down a gear or two. By doing so the engine speed will automatically JUMP to 3,000 rpm and your merging problem is solved! Trust me. I’ve driven the 1.8t in both auto and manual (5MT and 6MT) both in the passat and the a4. I have also driven the new GT with the 5EAT. The VW/Audi engine is SIMPLY NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE as the new Subaru setup. As a matter of fact the only power train setup that VW/Audi has that MAY compete with the new GT is the s4 with an MT. That’s it. Not the 1.8t. Not the 2.8 or 3.0 v6. Not the 2.7t. Not even the absurd w8. Nuthin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='SoldonSubie']The VW/Audi engine is SIMPLY NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE as the new Subaru setup. As a matter of fact the only power train setup that VW/Audi has that MAY compete with the new GT is the s4 with an MT. That’s it. Not the 1.8t. Not the 2.8 or 3.0 v6. Not the 2.7t. Not even the absurd w8. Nuthin![/quote] I agree VAG is being left behind in the USDM, the Passat V6 in unchanged for over 5 years now I think. You didn;t mention the 3.2 VR6, 250hp and torque right off idle but it's application is limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoldonSubie Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='Gumby'][quote name='SoldonSubie']The VW/Audi engine is SIMPLY NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE as the new Subaru setup. As a matter of fact the only power train setup that VW/Audi has that MAY compete with the new GT is the s4 with an MT. That’s it. Not the 1.8t. Not the 2.8 or 3.0 v6. Not the 2.7t. Not even the absurd w8. Nuthin![/quote] I agree VAG is being left behind in the USDM, the Passat V6 in unchanged for over 5 years now I think. You didn;t mention the 3.2 VR6, 250hp and torque right off idle but it's application is limited.[/quote] Point taken on the 3.2 VR6. But, why spend $30K for a rabbit with rounded edges (r32)? Like you said. The application is limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='SoldonSubie'][quote name='Gumby'][quote name='SoldonSubie']The VW/Audi engine is SIMPLY NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE as the new Subaru setup. As a matter of fact the only power train setup that VW/Audi has that MAY compete with the new GT is the s4 with an MT. That’s it. Not the 1.8t. Not the 2.8 or 3.0 v6. Not the 2.7t. Not even the absurd w8. Nuthin![/quote] I agree VAG is being left behind in the USDM, the Passat V6 in unchanged for over 5 years now I think. You didn;t mention the 3.2 VR6, 250hp and torque right off idle but it's application is limited.[/quote] Point taken on the 3.2 VR6. But, why spend $30K for a rabbit with rounded edges (r32)? Like you said. The application is limited.[/quote] People are buying it because it's very refined unlike the Sti or Evo and is argueably just as fast and rewarding through the twisties and only a notch or so behind in a straight line (owners ahve achieved 13.9 sec 1/4's stock). Having said that it's apealing to a very limited group of enthusiasts, not many peole would consider spending $30k on a hatchaback, no matter how capable it is, especially a hatchback that doesn't even come with a spare tire :oops: and whose stock tires are backordered :oops: :oops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoldonSubie Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='Gumby'][quote name='SoldonSubie'][quote name='Gumby'][quote name='SoldonSubie']The VW/Audi engine is SIMPLY NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE as the new Subaru setup. As a matter of fact the only power train setup that VW/Audi has that MAY compete with the new GT is the s4 with an MT. That’s it. Not the 1.8t. Not the 2.8 or 3.0 v6. Not the 2.7t. Not even the absurd w8. Nuthin![/quote] I agree VAG is being left behind in the USDM, the Passat V6 in unchanged for over 5 years now I think. You didn;t mention the 3.2 VR6, 250hp and torque right off idle but it's application is limited.[/quote] Point taken on the 3.2 VR6. But, why spend $30K for a rabbit with rounded edges (r32)? Like you said. The application is limited.[/quote] People are buying it because it's very refined unlike the Sti or Evo and is argueably just as fast and rewarding through the twisties and only a notch or so behind in a straight line (owners ahve achieved 13.9 sec 1/4's stock). Having said that it's apealing to a very limited group of enthusiasts, not many peole would consider spending $30k on a hatchaback, no matter how capable it is, especially a hatchback that doesn't even come with a spare tire :oops: and whose stock tires are backordered :oops: :oops:[/quote] Well at only 5,000 units a year there won't be that much impact. Don't get me wrong, I read the reviews and was impressed. I just have a hard time reconciling "refined", $30k and a rabbit (and that's all it is) into the same equation. Heck, I'm astonished that people spend $25k for a jetta (rabbit with a trunk) with leather seats. For what you get for the money VW simply can't compete with the Japanese makers. However, I'm sure that those people who are buying it are pretty happy though :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='SoldonSubie'] I just have a hard time reconciling "refined", $30k and a rabbit (and that's all it is) into the same equation[/quote] I was shocked to discover that my wife's Carbio is quieter on the freeway at say 70mph with the top up than my WRX. I take your point on the Jetta, it's just become fashionable, in my area anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoldonSubie Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='Gumby'][quote name='SoldonSubie'] I just have a hard time reconciling "refined", $30k and a rabbit (and that's all it is) into the same equation[/quote] I was shocked to discover that my wife's Carbio is quieter on the freeway at say 70mph with the top up than my WRX. I take your point on the Jetta, it's just become fashionable, in my area anyway.[/quote] Gumby: I know what you mean about fashionable. That's pretty impressive as far as how quiet the Cabrio is. I think that VW is trying, with mixed results, to be looked upon as more than the company that brought us the rabbit and beetle. The problem I have with the pricier Passats and such ($25K +) is that you start getting into the starter bmw price range pretty quickly. And luxuo features like leather and sunroofs don't do it for me. So. I'd rather have a fairly stripped 325i than a "loaded" passat. Of course i'd raher have a GT/XT than either one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 VW just doesn't cut it for me. High maintaince costs and reliablity woes scare me from ever purchasing any VW, no matter how nice the interiors are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 SOS, I agree, the Passat is long-in-the-tooth and needs to be upgraded, it has the potential to be better than the Accord/Camry like it was once considered. Th GT/XT and in a differnet league of course :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey']VW just doesn't cut it for me. High maintaince costs and reliablity woes scare me from ever purchasing any VW, no matter how nice the interiors are.[/quote] Might as well include Mercedes Benz and BMM both of which have been slipping in the reliability ratings. I heard onme report recently that a 5 year old Lexus was likely to be more reliable than a new MB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='Gumby'][quote name='Drift Monkey']VW just doesn't cut it for me. High maintaince costs and reliablity woes scare me from ever purchasing any VW, no matter how nice the interiors are.[/quote] Might as well include Mercedes Benz and BMM both of which have been slipping in the reliability ratings. I heard onme report recently that a 5 year old Lexus was likely to be more reliable than a new MB.[/quote] Very believeable Gumby, Toyotas last forever! Nice double post BTW. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey'][quote name='Gumby'][quote name='Drift Monkey']VW just doesn't cut it for me. High maintaince costs and reliablity woes scare me from ever purchasing any VW, no matter how nice the interiors are.[/quote] Might as well include Mercedes Benz and BMM both of which have been slipping in the reliability ratings. I heard onme report recently that a 5 year old Lexus was likely to be more reliable than a new MB.[/quote] Very believeable Gumby, Toyotas last forever! Nice double post BTW. :P[/quote] From the master of the one line post. Any PWing comments from you DM will be LMAO material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 I aim to please Gumby. I aim to please. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 [quote name='SoldonSubie'] Don't get me wrong, I read the reviews and was impressed. I just have a hard time reconciling "refined", $30k and a rabbit (and that's all it is) into the same equation. Heck, I'm astonished that people spend $25k for a jetta (rabbit with a trunk) with leather seats. For what you get for the money VW simply can't compete with the Japanese makers. [/quote] Yes, the $30,000 R32 can trace its lineage back to the VW Rabbit, but that does not mean it is a Rabbit. A $90,000 Porsche Turbo can trace its lineage back to the slow and crude Porsche 356, but that does not mean it is a 356. Even the Legacy GT has humble beginnings. All in the eye of the beholder I would say. Just as a Subaru enthusiast may question the value of a $30K VW hatchback, a Honda or Nissan enthusiast may question the value of a $30K 4 cylinder Subaru Legacy wagon (and what is a wagon but a stretched hatchback?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Actually, the Legacy beginnings weren't so humble. [img]http://www.swrt.com/cpimages/385267.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.swrt.com/cpimages/385313.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.swrt.com/cpimages/385250.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.swrt.com/cpimages/385330.jpg[/img] The SWRT has been using the Legacy since 1991 and started it's first 3 years of competition with the turbo Legacy. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 [quote name='outahere']Yes, the $30,000 R32 can trace its lineage back to the VW Rabbit, but that does not mean it is a Rabbit. A $90,000 Porsche Turbo can trace its lineage back to the slow and crude Porsche 356, but that does not mean it is a 356. Even the Legacy GT has humble beginnings. All in the eye of the beholder I would say. Just as a Subaru enthusiast may question the value of a $30K VW hatchback, a Honda or Nissan enthusiast may question the value of a $30K 4 cylinder Subaru Legacy wagon (and what is a wagon but a stretched hatchback?).[/quote] Actually, the 2.5GT Wagon should cost LESS than a R32 (26k) and has more hp/torque (250/250 vs. 240/236) and a lower curb weight to boot (3355 lbs vs. 3400 lbs). It just makes sense to the practical minded. SUBE is right about the "humble" Legacy beginnings. Subaru relied on the Legacy for the WRC from it's debut in 1990 until the Impreza was developed and debuted in 1993. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey'][quote name='outahere']Yes, the $30,000 R32 can trace its lineage back to the VW Rabbit, but that does not mean it is a Rabbit. A $90,000 Porsche Turbo can trace its lineage back to the slow and crude Porsche 356, but that does not mean it is a 356. Even the Legacy GT has humble beginnings. All in the eye of the beholder I would say. Just as a Subaru enthusiast may question the value of a $30K VW hatchback, a Honda or Nissan enthusiast may question the value of a $30K 4 cylinder Subaru Legacy wagon (and what is a wagon but a stretched hatchback?).[/quote] Actually, the 2.5GT Wagon should cost LESS than a R32 (26k) and has more hp/torque (250/250 vs. 240/236) and a lower curb weight to boot (3355 lbs vs. 3400 lbs). It just makes sense to the practical minded. SUBE is right about the "humble" Legacy beginnings. Subaru relied on the Legacy for the WRC from it's debut in 1990 until the Impreza was developed and debuted in 1993.[/quote] You totally outdid yourself with that post DM, I'm impressed. BTW, it's commonmly held that the R32 has 250hp, the same as the Audi TT with the same motor but was listed as only 240 for marketing purposes, the TT costs $13,000 more.... Yes the GT does make sense to the practical minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 I gathered that information from VW's own website. Whether it is overrated or not is irrelevant. The Legacy just might be underrated as well...:twisted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey']The Legacy just might be underrated as well...:twisted:[/quote] Just like the FXT, Fingers crossed, knock on wood, drink in left hand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan2 Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Can we stop worrying about the old numbers game for a wee bit? :wink: The car drives great, is deceptively quick - still not enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.