instantfury Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Challenger may have been pre-bankruptcy... but Chrysler got government money, with GM, back in December/January... was Challenger out before then? Maybe so, but not a lot of them. And, fully agreed. It is absolutely a matter of principle. Jack's form of acceptance looks good on the surface, but in actuality, it is full-fledged enabling, and it allows and encourages more of that socialistic behavior which I absolutely do not accept. And so I won't accept the products of that behavior. I don't buy alcohol for alcoholics. I don't buy products from and for socialists who are already seizing my money for taxes. thought it was a fight club reference. e.g. " i am jack's utter lack of suprise" not trying to say ya got cancer or anything, my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Challenger may have been pre-bankruptcy... but Chrysler got government money, with GM, back in December/January... was Challenger out before then? Maybe so, but not a lot of them. And, fully agreed. It is absolutely a matter of principle. Jack's form of acceptance looks good on the surface, but in actuality, it is full-fledged enabling, and it allows and encourages more of that socialistic behavior which I absolutely do not accept. And so I won't accept the products of that behavior. I don't buy alcohol for alcoholics. I don't buy products from and for socialists who are already seizing my money for taxes. Your position is understood and respected, but devils advocate here. If Obama motors sells a car you really like, and is what you want, don't you think that purchase would furthur help a speedy recovery to the said carmaker and help the government get their loans back sooner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacks GT Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Can you get more power for less than the V6 Camero? I'm not sure you could even do it with aftermarket parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Your position is understood and respected, but devils advocate here. If Obama motors sells a car you really like, and is what you want, don't you think that purchase would furthur help a speedy recovery to the said carmaker and help the government get their loans back sooner? That is a reasonable statement on the surface. But digging into it, it doesn't bear much scrutiny. If there were a car left that I really liked... maybe I would have a harder time... But as it is, no. All their performance cars, save Camaro and Corvette are going to be gone. G8, Solstice/Sky... and their brands, so the future looks more grim that pre-bailout. That is saying something, because GM wasn't exactly a haven for mainstream performance, other than Corvette, in the more recent past. Plus I ALSO have a principled stance against GM's black box recorders and OwnStar un-accountable surveillance system pre-installed mandatorily, while the government rules that GPS surveillance of any car without a warrant or probable cause is legal... I consider that a personal sovereignty and privacy issue. My property reports to no one but me, unless I initiate contact with a service provider, or insurance company. I don't think consumer demand plays much role at all in Chrysler or GM recovery. If it did, Dealers would be getting EMPHASIS to promote product, not summarily closed with no real recourse. Dealers would not be getting the axe, while unions get a share of the company, if consumer demand were the driving force here. And as part of Bankruptcy, which GM and Chrysler are now beyond the point of no-return from, the "loans" are dismissed, and basically are now constituting a "purchase price" for government equity in the companies. Those of us who said they were NOT loans, that they would never be paid back, are proven right. Both companies are now partially-owned subsidiaries of the US Government, the money spent buying equity, not being lent for repayment. And OVER-payed at that, with no option to the taxpayer to opt-out. Therefore it is a hostile government takeover, not a voluntary investment. The only people volunteering are people making the government decisions, and the weasels that asked for government bail-out to avoid bankruptcy... Oh, wait... they didn't avoid it at all. It is hostile to the american people, and free enterprise. Hostile to the people doing business, hostile to the consumer of the product, and hostile to the taxpayer. Some people are ALL THREE of those. I feel no compunction to be permissive of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 oh man.. I forgot all about that. onstar tracking on govt owned vehicles.. not good at all.. "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 I dunno I was just being goofy.. maybe you put the ? in there cos you weren't suer you needed to be excused. (I thought about saying "you're excused" ) anywhey.. so.. I'm not clear on this, does the new mustang still have a solid rear axle? I thought that was kind of.. obsolete of them in 05 to be still making the previous model with a solid rear axle.. Yes, solid rear axle still lives on for the 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 how obsolete.. its interesting considering suvs have independent rear suspension now. "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatherWarrior Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Style wise....Camaro has it for me. The Challenger is way to out-of-proportion from the original, when they were trying to be close to the original. Mustang looks better in 2010, but same-old-same. But I'm not buying any of them, and mostly likely if Obama gets his way with MPG, they'll all be gone in a blink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 he did get his way. there is a lot of uncertainty about the life cycles of these products in my mind.. especially with the govt that set these fuel econ standards owning 2 of the 3 companies and the whitacre guy admittedly knowing nothing about cars.. decisions will be made by typical red tape ignorant bureaucrats based on expediency.. what we'll see come of these companies in the near future is going to be more like toyota's brown bag boring transportation devices to maximize sales by minimizing niche appeal. and if you think a car company cant get by without making at least one performance car.. again look to toyota.. they haven't made one in years and their sales have increased exponentially. Old detroit muscle is going the way of the dinosaur.. being replaced by a tiny furry mouse after the asteroid hit. "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legandrex Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I say the Mustang is the way to go but I am biased with what sits in my garage. I love the competition...it makes Ford upgrade the Mustang more than they would have had to without Camaro and Challenger. 2011 GT with 400 hp Coyote engine would be a nice upgrade for me...or wait 3-4 years and buy a used 2010 GT500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I say the Mustang is the way to go but I am biased with what sits in my garage. I love the competition...it makes Ford upgrade the Mustang more than they would have had to without Camaro and Challenger. 2011 GT with 400 hp Coyote engine would be a nice upgrade for me...or wait 3-4 years and buy a used 2010 GT500. Your mach 1 in the world of perfomance v8s is seen as a better car to start with than the gt500 or new stang gt. I would keep your mach 1 and if you want more performance there are plenty of upgrades to be done that will make the car faster in all aspects but still keep it just as drivable as it sits now. Im not trying to tell you what to do if you like the gt500 that much then get it, im just saying what i would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryandigi Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Your mach 1 in the world of perfomance v8s is seen as a better car to start with than the gt500 or new stang gt. I would keep your mach 1 and if you want more performance there are plenty of upgrades to be done that will make the car faster in all aspects but still keep it just as drivable as it sits now. Im not trying to tell you what to do if you like the gt500 that much then get it, im just saying what i would do. How so? Is it due to the weight of the iron block and supercharger on the gt500? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 How so? Is it due to the weight of the iron block and supercharger on the gt500? Its due to alot of things, the gt500 has shown to be a slug aroundthe track and in straight line accel. Most people still only run 12.6s-low 13s in the gt500. The mach 1 weight 3400lbs, gt500 4200lbs. Thats a huge advantage right there. But really im biased because i dont like the new stang or gt500 in general. A bolt on mach 1 with 4.10 gears can go mid to high 12s and be on par with a gt500 and trap almost as high but still respond well to suspension mods because it doesnt have the huge weight disadvantage. Really if you were to trade the mach 1 in for anything i would go with a 03/04 cobra. Its just as easy as the gt500 to make power but 5 times cheaper. and they only weigh 3600-3700lbs, 3500lbs with a live axle swap. I know this is just personal preference but IMO the 03 cobra looks alot better to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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