wandering car??

[outahere]

........The steering ratio is far faster than any other Subaru that I've owned so little adjustments on an off-center wheel are really amplified......

 

SBT

 

This is certainly true! As I drive down the interstate at 65-85mph, the car will slowly drift to the right, requiring a very slight steering correction from me, and then the car slowly drifts to the left, requiring yet another very slight steering correction. And so it goes, as my car travels down the freeway lane, slowly drifting to the right, then to the left, then to the right, then to the left, etc. If you were watching my trajectory from an airplane, you might think I was a drunk driver.

[musicboy]

I, too, have the "wandering car syndrome" with my 05 GT Ltd (Auto). Sometimes it feels as if the car is steering itself when I get above 65 mph. I had the car aligned, which seemed to help, but shortly after that I had the 7500 mile service wherein the tires were rotated, and the problem was immediately apparent again. Has anyone come up with a solution for this yet?

[Monkeyshack]

I am also having this problem, checked the tire pressue and I think the wind is a factor, but this is pretty bad, I want my 97 Acura CL back, it this is going to keep up.

[PGT]

I just had my car at the dealer today. Seems they fixed my problem, finally. I let the master tech drive last week....he agreed the car drifts. Alignment machine showed the caster way out of spec.......double the max spec at 5.6. The car feels 'normal' now. Only took 10K miles, six months, and three trips to the dealer to get it fixed. I'd put money on the fact that nothing was done the first two times in.

[S4]

I noticed the wind drift decreased after I got new tires. That's just my two cents.

[driggity]

I just had my car at the dealer today. Seems they fixed my problem, finally. I let the master tech drive last week....he agreed the car drifts. Alignment machine showed the caster way out of spec.......double the max spec at 5.6. The car feels 'normal' now. Only took 10K miles, six months, and three trips to the dealer to get it fixed. I'd put money on the fact that nothing was done the first two times in.

 

What did they do to fix the problem? As for the caster are you sure they were using the specs for the 05+ cars? The older model years ran much less caster and I'm pretty sure that the 05 Service manual states that around 5.5 degrees of caster is the factory spec.

 

The whole pulling right thing seems to be pretty common on Subarus and I really think its because of the fact that the cars almost always have unequal caster from side to side.

[PGT]

They say they didn't have the spec back the last few times the car was in. They did it from '05 specs. Caster was the only issue. I don't have the printout - I will post it once I do. Max was like 2.8 and I had 5.6 on one side.

[musicboy]

I changed the air pressure to give the front tires 4 more pounds than the rears and it helped quite a bit, but I still do not like the way this car drives at speeds above 75. It just seems disconnected from the road.

[driggity]

They say they didn't have the spec back the last few times the car was in. They did it from '05 specs. Caster was the only issue. I don't have the printout - I will post it once I do. Max was like 2.8 and I had 5.6 on one side.

 

I'm pretty sure that they don't have the right specs for an 05. Even the Service manual states that the 05s should be in the mid 5s in terms of caster.

[PGT]

I'm pretty sure that they don't have the right specs for an 05. Even the Service manual states that the 05s should be in the mid 5s in terms of caster.

 

They swear they do. Just like they swear they checked out the alignment in December when I brought it in the first time. I am still waiting on the printout for the alignment - they were going to mail me a copy....it's been one week ago today. I will give them to Friday. The spec they used will be on that sheet.

[Ken S]

I just had my car at the dealer today. Seems they fixed my problem, finally. I let the master tech drive last week....he agreed the car drifts. Alignment machine showed the caster way out of spec.......double the max spec at 5.6. The car feels 'normal' now. Only took 10K miles, six months, and three trips to the dealer to get it fixed. I'd put money on the fact that nothing was done the first two times in.

 

How did the service department correct caster (normally non-adjustable)? Did they work on the subframe or some other method?

 

Ken

[PGT]

How did the service department correct caster (normally non-adjustable)? Did they work on the subframe or some other method?

 

Ken

 

Good Q. They used a BFH, for all I know. It tracks dead straight now. After a 1500 mile road trip one weekend a month ago, I couldn't deal with it anymore. I'd really like to see that print out and the work ticket....

[musicboy]

I have an appointment at my dealer on Monday, May 23 to address this issue. If any of you who have had this problem corrected at the dealer, I'd appreciate any input you could supply. Thanks.

[Drift Monkey]

Easy fix for you PGT. +7 Caster on both sides and you should be fine.

[emlevins]

I changed the air pressure to give the front tires 4 more pounds than the rears and it helped quite a bit, but I still do not like the way this car drives at speeds above 75. It just seems disconnected from the road.

 

Try new tires and a rear swaybar?

[outahere]

I have had the alignment checked & tweaked at the dealer, and have installed new tires and wheels, and my LGT still does not have the straightline stability I am accustomed to from my previously owned RWD and FWD vehicles. This is my first AWD vehicle, and it feels as if the vehicle is steered 75% by the driver, and 25% by the road surface and/or crosswinds. I am wondering if the 50/50 torque split in the drivetrain is responsible for some of this wandering tendency.

[LawGT]

hmmm....I'm stupid. I have a "wandering" car at anything more than 60 mph. A quick Google search turned this up. Note the reference to having the caster equal but negative: "If the caster is equal but too negative, the steering will be light and the vehicle will wander and be difficult to keep in a straight line." Now the question becomes how to fix it since it appears that caster is not adjustable in LGT's.

 

 

 

 

Caster

http://www.familycar.com/classroom/Images/Align_Caster.gif

 

When you turn the steering wheel, the front wheels respond by turning on a pivot attached to the suspension system. Caster is the angle of this steering pivot, measured in degrees, when viewed from the side of the vehicle. If the top of the pivot is leaning toward the rear of the car, then the caster is positive, if it is leaning toward the front, it is negative. If the caster is out of adjustment, it can cause problems in straight line tracking. If the caster is different from side to side, the vehicle will pull to the side with the less positive caster. If the caster is equal but too negative, the steering will be light and the vehicle will wander and be difficult to keep in a straight line. If the caster is equal but too positive, the steering will be heavy and the steering wheel may kick when you hit a bump. Caster has little affect on tire wear.

 

http://www.familycar.com/classroom/Images/Align_Caster2.gifThe best way to visualize caster is to picture a shopping cart caster. The pivot of this type of caster, while not at an angle, intersects the ground ahead of the wheel contact patch. When the wheel is behind the pivot at the point where it contacts the ground, it is in positive caster. Picture yourself trying to push the cart and keep the wheel ahead of the pivot. The wheel will continually try to turn from straight ahead. That is what happens when a car has the caster set too far negative. Like camber, on many front-wheel-drive vehicles, caster is not adjustable. If the caster is out on these cars, it indicates that something is worn or bent, possibly from an accident, and must be repaired or replaced.

 

 

 

 

Steering Center

 

http://www.familycar.com/classroom/Images/Align_Steering_Center.gifSteering center is simply the fact that the steering wheel is centered when the vehicle is traveling down a straight and level road. A crooked steering wheel is usually the most common complaint that a customer has after a wheel alignment is performed. Assuming that the steering wheel stays in the same position when you let go of the wheel (in other words, the car is not pulling), then steering center is controlled by the front and rear toe settings. When setting steering center, the rear toe should be set first bringing the Thrust Angle as close to the vehicle centerline as possible. Then the steering wheel is locked in a straight ahead position while the front toe is set. Before locking the steering wheel, the engine should be started and the wheel should be turned right and left a couple of times to take any stress off the power steering valve. After setting the toe, the engine should be started again to be sure that the steering valve wasn't loaded again due to the tie rod adjustments. Of course, you should always road test the vehicle after every alignment as a quality control check.

 

 

 

Another problem with steering center has to do with the type of roads that are driven on. Most roads are crowned to allow for water drainage, and unless you drive in England, Japan or another country where they drive on the wrong (sorry) left side of the road, you usually drive on the right side of the crown. This may cause the vehicle to drift to the right so that the steering wheel will appear to be off-center to the left on a straight road. The best way to compensate for this is as follows:

• If there is a difference in caster, it should be that the left wheel is more negative than the right wheel, but not more than 1/2 degree. Check the specs for any specific recommendations on side-to-side differences.

  
  

  
  

• If there is a difference in camber, then the left wheel should be more positive than the right wheel. Check the specs to see what the allowable difference is.

  
  

  
  

[BT4]

I hate to resurrect such an old thread, but I have had this problem since I bought the car. It now has 32k miles. Been through three sets of tires, multiple alignments, new suspension, new lower control arm bushings. Still wanders at 75 mph. Twitchy, drifts to the right etc. Has anyone solved this definitevely yet ? Seems like many of us have just been living with it. I sure would like to know if anyone has found the miracle cure. Here are my last alignment specs. Caster looks a bit out of spec, but not sure why since it is not adjustable?

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=276&pictureid=1467

[Pawlwawl06]

Same here, I noticed this recently after I bumped up the tire pressure a bit. It was at 26 psi, never had this problem before. Now Im at 30+ psi and I get this wandering feeling, Im gonna check it again tomorrow, maybe the pressure is not the same among all tires.

[naimouasta]

Sheesh, nobody mentioned tire pressures? That is generally by far the biggest culprit! If they pressure bias is close to even (say 35F/35R), the car will in general with stock suspension ride all over the road. Great for a handling course (although can get a bit extra tail-happy), but for cruising a bane. Now, keep a 3-4psi front bias on the car and you're good to go for cruising. I've tried this and it's worked on both my old 97 GT BD Sedan and my new 05 GT BP Wagon. The old GT with 16" wheels I would run about 38-39F/35R. The new GT with 17" and Toyo Proxes 4's I run 41-42F/38R. Having that 3-4psi bias makes all the difference! I personally think tires and the right pressure settings are by far one of the biggest components to the proper handling of any car.

 

+1. i got new wheels + tires + alignment, then i did a 1400mi road trip. OMG did the car wander around, constant steering correction, was so tiring. i thought maybe the alignment was bad and checked for odd tire wear during rest stops and found nothing. then when i got home did some maintenance, tire rotation, etc and deciding to put some air in the tires. no more wandering, i could have made my roadtrip much more enjoyable by just checking my pressures.

[BT4]

Well, I have tried all kinds of pressures and nothing good to report yet. The car always feels like a shopping cart with a bad wheel. It gets buffeted back and forth on these long freeway trips. All you can do is hold on to the wheel with two fingers with your elbow on the hard armrest and pretend it isnt happening. The corrections are minimal because the general direction is still down the line, but it sure is weird to get worked back and forth for hours, and to tell you truth it really pisses me off. I was at the ford dealership today looking at the new ford fusion. God help me....

[SBT]

^^ If you get a moment, check your outside circumference of each tire, i.e., physically measure it around the center line and compare your tires to each other. If you've got less than 1/4" difference F-to-R, decrease the pressure slightly on the larger tire and re-try it. This only works if you've got your alignment settings correct, and start with 0* toe F/R and as much negative camber as you can at the front and rear with 0* (or as close to 0* as you can get) cross-camber. Once I dialed-in the suspension alignment (and specifically went to 0* toe F/R, my handling went from weaving/tiring to on-center and direct. If you alignment is spec'd and there is more than 1/4" of rotational difference F-to-R, replace the tires with a new set. You'll be amazed at the difference.

 

The other thing that I noticed was a change in the handling when I went from stock wheels with 225/45 tires to a 225/40 on 18"x8" with 49mm offset. That pushed the wheels out, changing both the track and the scrub radius (and increased the turning radius). That had to be corrected with a new alignment.

 

I am curious how many of you with the wandering cars have dropped the suspension 3/4" or more? If you have, and you haven't put on a roll-center kit, then think about it. Without a roll-center kit to raise the roll-center, you're actually inducing static camber which translates to bump steer and some weird handling attributes. Also, if you really want to tighten up the front end and haven't done the LCA bushings, recommend you do those too. See my comments in an earlier thread about the sequencing that I did with mine.

[BT4]

Thanks for the pointers. Anything is possible at this point, although I have had three sets of tires on there and the wandering feeling was about the same with all tires. I have tried all sorts of pressure combinations on all three sets. Michelin Pilots, Michelin HXmx4, and now Exclaim UHP. Tried various alignments including zero toe and this did not cure it. The best straight line feeling I can get so far is with some toe in up front and also in back.

I was hoping someone had nailed this down to a more specific part since it is such a common complaint. Right now my only prospect is to start replacing components, one at a time and hope that at some point I will stumble upon it.

 

I did measure the UHP's and they were all extremely close at least within 1/32" of eachother when I had them off during the suspension swap.

[naimouasta]

I am curious how many of you with the wandering cars have dropped the suspension 3/4" or more? If you have, and you haven't put on a roll-center kit, then think about it. Without a roll-center kit to raise the roll-center, you're actually inducing static camber which translates to bump steer and some weird handling attributes. Also, if you really want to tighten up the front end and haven't done the LCA bushings, recommend you do those too. See my comments in an earlier thread about the sequencing that I did with mine.

 

^ hmm. sounds good. only thing i have done is 18X8 + 235/40 + rallitek springs. i was planing on some koni's + sways + LCA bushings this summer. just that i've been hearing about aftermarket LCA's failing so i'm still contemplating on them. i will look into the roll-center kit, handling is a little funky over bumps.

[BT4]

The whiteline roll center kit looks like a solid part. I have been looking at it too. I may go ahead and try the whiteline lower control arm bushing to see if it helps. One of my AVO LCA bushings broke after one long road trip and I had to go back to new stock ones...