rosscarlson Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I'm chiming in sorta late but I'm thinking the 3.0R for you too. I went for the Spec.B for the 6MT and the tunability of the turbo motor. But honestly I wish I could have gotten the flat 6 as I'm worried about heat issues a the track. I can mod for that so I will. With the driving you describe and the fact that you don't want to mod yours I'd also say go for the 3.0R. Oh and BTW my 09 Spec.B hasn't shown the studder issue at all. I've only got 700 miles on her so maybe it will show up, I'm going to tune her soon anyway. Look forward to seeing pictures of the new ride... -Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawl Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I'm chiming in sorta late but I'm thinking the 3.0R for you too. I went for the Spec.B for the 6MT and the tunability of the turbo motor. But honestly I wish I could have gotten the flat 6 as I'm worried about heat issues a the track. I can mod for that so I will. -Ross FMIC. dunzo! car for sale. PM me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachilla Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 So then that "turbo" torque advantage doesn't hold then, right? The LT1 Camaro actually, quite likely, made LESS horsepower than your GSX. I am comparing N/A to turbo cars (or 6cylinder DOHC N/A to an OHV V8) in terms of driving "feel". My GSX probably made more torque than a LT1, just at different part of power band, and it revved to 7500rpm too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueDevil Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 so i'm guessing not too many folks have ridden in a real old school big block car? not the mid 70's big block smog crap, i'm talking late 60's, high compression, 8 mpg big block. i've owned turbo cars, i've owned a ls-2 car, a new hemi car, several 5.0 mustangs. NOTHING compares to 400 lb/ft at 2000 rpm. i love the rush feeling from a turbo, but nothing beats the kick in the stomach an old big block can provide. modern built big blocks will give you gut smashing torque and can still rev to 8000rpm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 But you just said it wouldn't even come close to catching up. Before you said your turbo car was SO MUCH faster than a 350Z of similar power (because of the TURBO!!!!11!!) So, really, you are just making things up. A 2006 350Z that makes slightly less power than your GSX feels slower because the GSX is turbo. A busted LT1 Camaro, which makes less torque than your GSX, feels faster, even though the GSX is TURBO!!!!11!!. Again, you are just making things up. Clearly the deciding factor of what makes more torque between a turbo or an n/a car has nothing to do with a turbo. Driving "feel" doesn't win races. I'm sure there are a BUNCH of people out there who think their 93 Civic EX "feels" fast. To the OP. Drive them both. The price is comparable between them and the only way to truly appreciate one over the other is to drive them both like you would drive them every day. When contemplating a decision like this, I like to try to find a used version of the car I want on a dealership lot. That way I can rag on it a little without worrying about it being a brand new motor. Then, once you get a feel, make your decision. That's how I chose the XT. I drove a 2005 and a 2006, each with 40 and 60k respectively, and I drove them like I drive every day. A bit of WOT, mostly light cruising, and everything was gravy. Then, I drove my 09XT like it was a new car, to see how I liked things beyond the motor. Buy the car you enjoy driving the most. If you want an automatic transmission, the choice really comes down to which one you feel more comfortable driving (and that has NOTHING to do with a turbo). [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 so i'm guessing not too many folks have ridden in a real old school big block car? not the mid 70's big block smog crap, i'm talking late 60's, high compression, 8 mpg big block. i've owned turbo cars, i've owned a ls-2 car, a new hemi car, several 5.0 mustangs. NOTHING compares to 400 lb/ft at 2000 rpm. i love the rush feeling from a turbo, but nothing beats the kick in the stomach an old big block can provide. modern built big blocks will give you gut smashing torque and can still rev to 8000rpm. Do you still have one of these old big block cars? [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueDevil Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 no, my 55 has a built small block, but many people i know have big block cars. kinda how it happens when you're into old cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachilla Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 But you just said it wouldn't even come close to catching up. Before you said your turbo car was SO MUCH faster than a 350Z of similar power (because of the TURBO!!!!11!!) So, really, you are just making things up. A 2006 350Z that makes slightly less power than your GSX feels slower because the GSX is turbo. A busted LT1 Camaro, which makes less torque than your GSX, feels faster, even though the GSX is TURBO!!!!11!!. Again, you are just making things up. Clearly the deciding factor of what makes more torque between a turbo or an n/a car has nothing to do with a turbo. Driving "feel" doesn't win races. I'm sure there are a BUNCH of people out there who think their 93 Civic EX "feels" fast. What part of my statement don't you understand? A torquey car "feels" stronger although the track numbers might not agree. That was my point, what is yours? http://pachilla.homestead.com/files/turbo_2.jpg And the LT1 Z28 was brand new car I test drove at a dealership, it absolutely stumped my GSX off because my GSX is not making anything below 3000rpm. But I don't think a stock LT1 Z28 can touch low 12s in a 1/4mile as my GSX does on pump gas and all season rubber. However, the GSX can only do 12s on dump clutch AWD launch and shift at over 7000rpm. In normal off-boost driving it feels slow until the turbo wakes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 My point is that the things you are saying are irrelevant to the topic at hand. He's trying to choose between an H6 and a 2.5GT. Talking about how your GSX whupped a 350z that made less power has nothing to do with the topic. Nor does it have anything to do with the advantages or disadvantages of buying a turbo car. All it says is that a car that makes less power than yours is slower. And the LT1 comparison proves that you just flat made up the "stronger sense of turbo torque delivery" being the difference. /end [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachilla Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 My point is that the things you are saying are irrelevant to the topic at hand. He's trying to choose between an H6 and a 2.5GT. Talking about how your GSX whupped a 350z that made less power has nothing to do with the topic. Nor does it have anything to do with the advantages or disadvantages of buying a turbo car. All it says is that a car that makes less power than yours is slower. And the LT1 comparison proves that you just flat made up the "stronger sense of turbo torque delivery" being the difference. /end Well, I happen to own a 07 3.0R, a 90 GSX Turbo AWD and a 92 RST Turbo AWD. So I speak from my own experience which is not "made up" If you happened to own a 3.0R too please share with us your personal feedback. Much appreciated. http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/993/33397550oo2.jpg http://pachilla.homestead.com/files/Picture_0071.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 So you are comparing your GSX to your 3.0? You got me there boss. I don't own a 3.0R. I chose an OBXT instead. I also never made any comment to the OP other than to drive both and choose the one he liked better. What fits my needs and what fits your needs are going to be much different than what fits his. Enough derailing. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throttlejockey Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Well, I happen to own a 07 3.0R, a 90 GSX Turbo AWD and a 92 RST Turbo AWD. So I speak from my own experience which is not "made up" unless you also own a 3.0R? If so please share with us your personal feedback. Much appreciated. http://pachilla.homestead.com/files/Picture_0071.JPG I don't see any 3.0R? I have owned both and don't see how you have experience since you don't seem to have mentioned owning a 2.5GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueDevil Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 ugh, this is why i stopped coming here in the first place........ http://www.stimpco.com/carpix/arguingOnTheInternet.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachilla Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 So you are comparing your GSX to your 3.0? You got me there boss. I don't own a 3.0R. I chose an OBXT instead. I also never made any comment to the OP other than to drive both and choose the one he liked better. What fits my needs and what fits your needs are going to be much different than what fits his. Enough derailing. In my country I can only choose Euro-Spec Outback 3.0R and it costs 65K USD to buy (ouch!!!) especially knowing that you guys can have it for half that much So the next closest thing I can find is the Forester 2.5XT but the 09 model has revised engine with reduced lag and behaves differently compared to an OB 2.5T。 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 so i'm guessing not too many folks have ridden in a real old school big block car? not the mid 70's big block smog crap, i'm talking late 60's, high compression, 8 mpg big block. i've owned turbo cars, i've owned a ls-2 car, a new hemi car, several 5.0 mustangs. NOTHING compares to 400 lb/ft at 2000 rpm. i love the rush feeling from a turbo, but nothing beats the kick in the stomach an old big block can provide. modern built big blocks will give you gut smashing torque and can still rev to 8000rpm. I have driven/helped build many big blocks. Latest is a 496 13 to 1 comp ratio engine. Put out about 800 crank hp and then there is a 400 shot going on top of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theflystyle Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Well, I happen to own a 07 3.0R, a 90 GSX Turbo AWD and a 92 RST Turbo AWD. So I speak from my own experience which is not "made up" If you happened to own a 3.0R too please share with us your personal feedback. Much appreciated. didnt the 3.0r not come out til 2008? was made in 2007 but wasent available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 He doesnt live in america apparently Listen pachilla the only problem i had with what you said is you compared a stock 270trq 350z to a modded gsx makeing porbably 80 more trq so yes the gsx would feel faster. Oh and BTW there are many many LT1 cars running street legal tires that run low 12s on pump gas, hell i have seen 11s on street tires and 9s on street legal drag radials Eitherway the 3.0r is a great car, as is the 2.5gt. I felt the only thing the 3.0r had over the other 6 cylinder sports sedans is its AWD. Acura has a nicer interior IMO makes more power and with winter tires can get through quite a bit of snow. I always felt like the 3.0r was lacking compared to the other 6 cylidners in its class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachilla Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 He doesnt live in america apparently Yep, USDM Outback are made in the US, my Outback is Euro-Version from Japan. US customer typically has to wait a year or so for latest products from Subaru, so my 07 Euro/JDM-spec Outback = 08 USDM outback. But there are some other differences. USDM has different (bigger) front/rear bumpers and bent tailpipes USDM has bigger tires (225 vs 215) USDM has body/subframe lift (to convince EPA its a pick up:spin:) USDM has that 08 grille..... USDM has nice LL. Bean trim (no longer has LL. Bean logo for 08) USDM has real roof rack with crossbars USDM has two-tone exterior EURO has HID + Washer EURO has self-leveling rear strut by KYB EURO has silver-chrome wheel finish (USDM has polished version) EURO has alluminum hood & tailgate (USDM uses steel I believe) EURO has that useless roof rails (same as USDM GT wagon) JDM adds alluminum suspension pieces (same as spec B) JDM adds power-lifting tailgate JDM adds urban edition/20year edition with red/black interior JDM has that awesome Subaru Eyesite system JDM has ACC adaptive cruise control Listen pachilla the only problem i had with what you said is you compared a stock 270trq 350z to a modded gsx makeing porbably 80 more trq so yes the gsx would feel faster. Oh and BTW there are many many LT1 cars running street legal tires that run low 12s on pump gas, hell i have seen 11s on street tires and 9s on street legal drag radials I agree, I expected too much from 350Z. Funny I rented a 2008 Maxima SE with CVT in Cali last year for 6 weeks and it felt just as strong than a 350Z, maybe all VQ35s, regardless the 240hp version in an Altima, or the 300hp version in G35/350Z, performs similarly like internet rumours suggest, go figure... Eitherway the 3.0r is a great car, as is the 2.5gt. I felt the only thing the 3.0r had over the other 6 cylinder sports sedans is its AWD. Acura has a nicer interior IMO makes more power and with winter tires can get through quite a bit of snow. I always felt like the 3.0r was lacking compared to the other 6 cylidners in its class ACURA's SH-AWD system found in RL/TL is arguably more advanced than Subaru's. Although not symmetric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueDevil Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I have driven/helped build many big blocks. Latest is a 496 13 to 1 comp ratio engine. Put out about 800 crank hp and then there is a 400 shot going on top of it. NICE!! it's amazing what modern technology can do for the old school stuff. i've seen big inch big blocks with fuel injection crank out stupid hp without breaking a sweat and knock down 15mpg stop and go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Acuras AWD is also FWD bias. Which is why it sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueDevil Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 i still prefer the subaru AWD system over any other i've driven. sometimes low tech just works best. i mean, it's been in existence in pretty much the same form for how long now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 NICE!! it's amazing what modern technology can do for the old school stuff. i've seen big inch big blocks with fuel injection crank out stupid hp without breaking a sweat and knock down 15mpg stop and go. I love combineing modern and old school, most recently big blocks and forced induction. A buddy and i are planning a 502 twin turbo build for his 91 notch back foxbody. After he sells his 91 hatch back turbo built 5.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 i still prefer the subaru AWD system over any other i've driven. sometimes low tech just works best. i mean, it's been in existence in pretty much the same form for how long now? In the exact format we see today? Since 1988 really. Things were a little different, but the 5MT hasn't changed since 88. There was a revision in 99 (a change in the 5th gear hub, and a few other small parts), and then again in 03.5ish. But the design hasn't changed for 21 years. Same as the EJ engine block. It's been, structurally, the same for 21 years. Again, minor changes (like changing the location of the thrust bearing on the crank, and changing deck design a few times). [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueDevil Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 i have been toying with the idea of a twin turbo, big inch small block for my 55. i've got it all laid out in my head, put the turbos behind the grille on either side of the radiator with conical filters on each, custom fab a Y shaped inlet. oh yes. but my plan is a 6-71 blown small block, blower poking though the hood, big drag radial out back, untubbed with just a spring relocation and a 4 or 5 speed manual and a projection system that retains the carb look. street car stuff it always has and always will be a street car. it's nothing to see a rowdy car on the track, but pull up next to a roots blown 55 chevy with fat meats out back at a light and you're probably not going to mess with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachilla Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Acuras AWD is also FWD bias. Which is why it sucks Same as most Subaru with auto tranny isn't it? Subaru ATS (Active Torque Split) system with 90:10 split F/R Although 3.0R with auto tranny & VDC has 45:55 Split Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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