JonLGT Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 I have been researching these for the last week or so and I still have a few questions. My main concern is getting rid of the sloppy steering, and reducing the amount of wandering which I have learned these do a great deal of improvement. Between brands, I dont think it will be a difference, some people are happy with AVO some with the Superpro so that is no issue for me. My main concern is whether or not to get the offset bushings. What difference does the offset make? I read the offset bushings will give you positive caster, but when looking at my front wheels I see that my wheels are pretty far forward into the front of the wheel well (at least thats what I assume positive caster is) and there isnt any more room for them to move forward without my tires shredding on my fender. Will the non offset still get rid of the slop and wandering? What are the cons of the offset vs. non-offset? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJMC Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 I'm interested about this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KartRacerBoy Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 I I read the offset bushings will give you positive caster, but when looking at my front wheels I see that my wheels are pretty far forward into the front of the wheel well (at least thats what I assume positive caster is) and there isnt any more room for them to move forward without my tires shredding on my fender. Will the non offset still get rid of the slop and wandering? What are the cons of the offset vs. non-offset? Thanks in advance! That isn't positive castor. Castor has to do with the angle of certain points in the steering geometry. Search. There are some good threads showing exactly what it is and what it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonLGT Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 I guess my question is: Offset vs. Non offset. If offset improves steering response why do they even make a non offset one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeondacouch Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 That isn't positive castor. Castor has to do with the angle of certain points in the steering geometry. Search. There are some good threads showing exactly what it is and what it does. Here's a quick helpful overview of alignment: http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_KT Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_KT Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 I have been researching these for the last week or so and I still have a few questions. My main concern is getting rid of the sloppy steering, and reducing the amount of wandering which I have learned these do a great deal of improvement. Between brands, I dont think it will be a difference, some people are happy with AVO some with the Superpro so that is no issue for me. My main concern is whether or not to get the offset bushings. What difference does the offset make? I read the offset bushings will give you positive caster, but when looking at my front wheels I see that my wheels are pretty far forward into the front of the wheel well (at least thats what I assume positive caster is) and there isnt any more room for them to move forward without my tires shredding on my fender. Will the non offset still get rid of the slop and wandering? What are the cons of the offset vs. non-offset? Thanks in advance! I was in the same conundrum as you two weeks ago and opted for more positive castor (offset bushings). Slightly increased turn-in and added dynamic camber were the selling points for me. The LCA bushings are sitting at Yimi Sport Tuning and have yet to be installed; just haven't made the trip there, yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonLGT Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 looks like I am going offset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oister Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I was in the same conundrum as you two weeks ago and opted for more positive castor (offset bushings). Slightly increased turn-in and added dynamic camber were the selling points for me. The LCA bushings are sitting at Yimi Sport Tuning and have yet to be installed; just haven't made the trip there, yet. Where did you get your bushings from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katalyst Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 non offset should still offer better response since: 1) they will be new bushings 2) they are poly instead of the soft rubber ones that are OEM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_KT Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Where did you get your bushings from? No idea who distributed them, but I purchased them through Yimi Sport Tuning in Santa Clarita, CA. They're also the Super Pros, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJMC Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 This is the same as the PSRS from Perrin right? http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/show/276/Positive-Steering-Response-System?category=8&model=10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsme Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I have the super Pro standard because I worried about clearance. The offsets move the wheel foward. You can see I don't have much room with my 19's. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u156/itsmebryan/112332.jpg I'm very happy with the poly bushing. They work well with my other suspension mods. Also I heard the perrins are harsh. Racer X FMIC for '05-'09 LGTs, '08+ WRX and '10+ LGT,'14+ FXT, and '15+ WRX TMIC Racerxengineering.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhBe1 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Can't the offset ones be adjusted at installation for more caster or more static camber - i.e., more caster v. camber would increase clearance? 06LOB2.5i MT, JDMRSB, GYTTs, HPS, LGT Mufflers & Leather Wheel, SubiMomo Knob, Inalfa Moonroof, Clutch Switch Bypass, DeDRLd, DeChimed, & Straight Headrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonLGT Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 I have the super Pro standard because I worried about clearance. The offsets move the wheel foward. You can see I don't have much room with my 19's. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u156/itsmebryan/112332.jpg I'm very happy with the poly bushing. They work well with my other suspension mods. Also I heard the perrins are harsh. So they do move the wheel forward? I am so confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Of course they move the wheel forward. Personally I am against offset bushings. They put the arm in a such position so it puts pressure on the front bushing making it "crooked". I have not heard about any problems with that yet, but I imagine this can cause that bushing to wear prematurely. That being said I am a fan of on-center bushings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 You guys. They (offset ones) push the rear of the LCA out a bit, this pushes the wheel a bit more forward in the wheel well. This will change all alignment settings in the front: -toe (will be adjusted back after an alignment) -camber (should now be a bit more negative) -caster (will have more caster now) Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kha Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 So they do move the wheel forward? I am so confused. I'm about to put in a positive caster bushing, and this is what I know. It pushes the rear attachment of the lower control arm slightly outwards from the chassis. At the wheel, this results in moving the LCA forward, just the lower one, the upper one does not move. So, what you end up with is the wheel pushed slightly forward, but more importantly, it increases the caster, meaning the steering axis is angled back more (think the front wheel of a chopper). With more caster, the car sits closest to the ground when the wheel is centered, and turning the wheel lifts the car up slightly (due to the square profile of automobile tires. this wouldn't happen with motorcycles). So, the wheel centers itself better as it wants to move to the position with the lowest vehicle height, and you also get more steering resistance/weight right off the center, both of which help our car's slop off the center. And it also adds negative dynamic camber to the outside wheel. I'd say go with the positive caster bushings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 See my write up for my outback. The offset bushings do in fact push the wheel forward and at least on the outback I could not run 18" wheels like this I dont think. Here is the thread: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101013&highlight=AVO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KartRacerBoy Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 Mea culpa. I wouldn't have thought it would make much if any difference with clearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.sane Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 A little off topic, but if I were to order the Fulcrum Super Pro bushings, which part # do I need for the non-offset ones? The online catalog from their site has 4 different part numbers with similar descriptions: SPF3091K: Front Control Arm Lower - Inner Front Bushing SPF2802K: Front Control Arm Lower - Inner Rear Eccentric Bushing SPF2803K: Front Control Arm Lower - Inner Rear Eccentric Bushing SPF2801K: Front Control Arm Lower - Inner Rear Bushing Thanks for any input guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsme Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 They sell three kits: SPF2801K - 2 standard SPF2802K - 1 offset and 1 standard SPF2803K - 2 offset bushings The stats are from a thread back in '05 when a Aussie member told us about the bushing. And alot of us got them. 2yrs later no problem. http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=778965 the SPF3091 are for '08+ WRX I'm not sure if it will fit Racer X FMIC for '05-'09 LGTs, '08+ WRX and '10+ LGT,'14+ FXT, and '15+ WRX TMIC Racerxengineering.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.sane Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Thanks for the clarification, itsme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BT4 Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I had the AVO offset bushings professionally installed three weeks ago, and had a performance alignment. I did this after reading that it would reduce the wandering or tramlining if you will. I also heard that it only slightly increased NVH (which is absolutely false!) Over rough patches on the freeway, it felt so bad that I could hardly beleive that so much road vibration was being transmitted from just a bushing. I went on a pretty long road trip and logged 1,000 miles (mostly freeway, and some mountain highway through donner pass). I figured that by the end of the trip I would either love them or hate them. While some of the tramlining was reduced, the wandering feeling was not. This got progressively worse when I got home and drove around town or awhile. Yesterday, the wandering got so bad that it felt like something was broken and when I inspected under the car, I discovered that the bottom rubber piece of the AVO bushing had desintegrated and vanished. The lower control arm is now floating up and down along the metal sleeve. I would have to agree with UncleMat on the idea of offset. I think that there is a great deal of force being applied to this part on our cars, and this is why the stock bushings are failing on so many cars in the first 10k to 20k miles. The offset bushing is going to increase the stress on this point, and the higher durometer rubber is not up to the task of either absorbing vibration or holding up over time. There was no gain in cornering feel or performance either. The only thing I noticed is that at slower speeds the steering wheel was slightly harder to turn. I thought this would be a good thing, but as it turns out, this is the result of components fighting eachother and will result in pre-mature wear over time. The car has about 26k total miles on it, and all of this is just my opinion based on personal driving experience. There may be a better bushing out there, but I would advise everyone without reservation to steer clear of the AVO bushings. It is back to the stock bushings for me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Superpro on-center bushings ftw. 20k+ trouble free miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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