babyboy Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Before buying my 2005 Subaru Legacy GT from the showroom. I was seriously considering the twin turbo S4. I reconsidered since i owned a highly modified 1.8t golf and all it's problems and down right crappy service. I am always looking for something new and since i am in Canada. I only buy all wheel drive(i want the best of all worlds). So that leaves the new Acura Tl, BMW 335xi, Subaru and Audis. I am partial to subaru because i like reliability performance and tunability. But i felt quite slapped in the face the the new wrx gets 260 hp and of course the legacy is overlooked again. It's like having my 7 year old boy, suddenly stronger and faster than me. Every other carmaker seems to be progressing with there sedans. What is happening with the legacy. Are we looking in at 2010 for something new. I think the legacy platform is one of the best sedan platform out there. Subaru, i no quirky is part of your thing. But you are definately missing out on something here. Yes, I agree the Audi & BMW's are more luxurious butg you will also pay for it without the reliability. I have always said," i don't live in my car i drive it". Give a little more attention to the Legacy will you. A 300 horsepower legacy properly tuned and slightly redesigned would easily compete with the new supercharged S4 and what a bargain. The Legacy is literally a "diamond in the rough", all it needs is a little polishing. Business is business and i know subaru sales have gone up. But someone needs to pull there head out of there, you know what. Step back and take another look. I know there is supposed to be some super sti legacy priced up the wazoo and if you want to pay for it great. But what about the majority who just want a car that looks great, handles great and you do not have to pay an arm and leg for. Right now the 335xi is looking mighty sweet. To me it might be a cop out but i like to drive. I love the cars power, tunability and handling. Not particularly the price. Come on Subaru, step up. Is asking for 300 hp in a gt too much. Is it not cost effective enough? Can you not make it direct injection etc. and squeeze out a little more efficiency? If you have a 3.0 turbo it should be at least 280hp not 240 or 250. I think you guys are the only guys getting less hp out of a larger engine. Yes it is more effecient. So are all of audis new 2.0 with more horsepower and better gas mileage. I think i will shut up now. Is anybody in agreement? Or am i just talking out my . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawl Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 heres the thing. 300hp in the GT will be unfriendly to STI sales. you dont want to compete with yourself. get a downpipe, uppipe and an accessport and there you go 300hp. car for sale. PM me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 This is true, GM knew this and that is why the 98-02 ls1 camaros and Trans Ams were rated at 305hp and the ram air models at 325 and the corvette base was 350hp with the same ls1 engine. In reality though all the cars made 350 crank hp. Heres what subie needs to do, the STI is there premier performance car and at this day in age i dont think 300hp is enough for the top dog. The STI needs a hp bump to somewhere closer to the 400hp spectrum, and the legacy should get a bump to 320+ hp IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyboy Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 I am over 30 and have no interest in the sti no matter what horsepower it has. I go to my business and carry my kids around when i am not using my gas guzzling suv. I am looking for a sedan that i can use as a multipurpose with some driving enjoyment. Two totally different groups and so should they market them as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Why cant you use the STI as a multipurpose vehicle. Thats the point of all subarus is they can all be used for just about anything other than towing a large amount and or hauling a large amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneslo5.0 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I hear ya...if the LGT is Subaru's flagship sedan they need to step up and bump the power to atleast 300 HP...are the new 09 LGT's still rated at 250HP??? ...if so they need to get to work:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backlash Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 well... the legacy body has been around since 2005. the 2010 legacy is scheduled to be changed. standard is like 300hp in the GT for 2010 a STI Legacy is rumored to be 430hp... H6 turbo i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woby Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 The least Subaru should have done was up the hp when they released the Spec B (watching out for flames). Lets hope Subaru does something for 2010 although it will be two years too late for me. If you are even considering a 335, look at the price differential and think of all the wild ponies the Subaru would have if the money is put into mods. I know when I was shopping a year ago I could almost buy a two Legacy's for what BMW wanted for a 335 up here in the great white north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Well if this is true then i guess there listening lol. The legacy should be 340hp if the sti is gonna be 430. If they are gonna use a h6 then its gonna have to be completely different then the current h6, down to the block. And the STI can def no longer be caleld a rally car. It already cant be since rally cars need to be 2.0 liter not 2.5s but if it goes with 6 cylidner then that label can def not be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backlash Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Well if this is true then i guess there listening lol. The legacy should be 340hp if the sti is gonna be 430. If they are gonna use a h6 then its gonna have to be completely different then the current h6, down to the block. And the STI can def no longer be caleld a rally car. It already cant be since rally cars need to be 2.0 liter not 2.5s but if it goes with 6 cylidner then that label can def not be used. The 2.0-liter naturally aspirated unit is expected to generate 200 horsepower while the 2.5-liter turbo model will produce over 300 hp. In order to reduce emissions and improve fuel efficiency, two notoriously weak areas for Subaru, engineers are working on a continuously variable transmission in addition to the standard five-speed automatic. With the 3.0-liter model discarded, we have it on good authority that Subaru is seriously considering adding a hot Legacy STI to the mix further down the road — a sedan destined to get a turbocharged version of the company's current 3.7-liter engine that will reportedly pump out upwards of 430 hp.http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=126468?imw=Y&mktcat=enabler&AID=10364102&PID=3193523&kw=N&synpartner=edmunds&mktid=cj260233 Everywhere you see the reference to the 3.7L the H6 is 3.6 correct? (one of the H6's anyway) nobody is 100% sure what the STI legacy motor will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vr4Legacy Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 The STI is in no way an all purpose DD. I had an '05 Impreza and traded UP to the LGT because I could not stand the ride of the Impreza. It's a small sports compact with a firm suspension, I can't even imagine what the STI drives like. I am sure it handles GREAT and you get AWESOME responsiveness, but if you want a nice daily driver that you can somewhat comfortable fit 4 in.... the STI is not the way to go. Plus I believe they are now only available in 6pd ( a feature I LOVE, but I understand the need for autos) I agree 100& that the STI and LGT are different vehicles and classes. I think there are few people looking for an STI that want an LGT and vise versa. Now the Impreza 2.5 GT v the Legacy GT maybe... but if so the LGT costs more and Subaru will make a premium. Agreed the LGT shouldn't put out more than the STI stock, but bumping it to 300hp wouldn't do that (unless I'm confused about my numbers) and I think their engineering and technology is so advanced in many aspects... DI is a must. I think the OP has a valid point that the LGT needs to get more inline with current competitors in the Sports Sedan lines. /my rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacks GT Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=126468?imw=Y&mktcat=enabler&AID=10364102&PID=3193523&kw=N&synpartner=edmunds&mktid=cj260233 Everywhere you see the reference to the 3.7L the H6 is 3.6 correct? (one of the H6's anyway) nobody is 100% sure what the STI legacy motor will be. Yeah ive seen this discussed before. Its something to do with the compression of the 3.6 motor and the shape of the pistons. The current 3.6 is a low compression motor, this is not effective with a turbocharger. By changing the shape of the pistons it slightly increases the cc of the engine but more importantly creates more pressure in the cylinders. This is what i recall dont take it as a certainty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacks GT Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 heres the thing. 300hp in the GT will be unfriendly to STI sales. you dont want to compete with yourself. Well you say that but look at the germans and the domestics, they all use he same engines for different cars, the legacy would be heavier, have a longer wheelbase and more expensive than the STi so why would it effect the sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssej Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 With the money I save on insurance alone, I could make my LGT faster than an STI. So I'm fine with that 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urs1ne Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 heres the thing. 300hp in the GT will be unfriendly to STI sales. you dont want to compete with yourself. Ya, they dont want to pull a Mercedes, lets make an SLR and an SL black edition, we have 2 feet, might as well pick one to shoot ourselves in. ^ n00bs below this line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Yeah ive seen this discussed before. Its something to do with the compression of the 3.6 motor and the shape of the pistons. The current 3.6 is a low compression motor, this is not effective with a turbocharger. By changing the shape of the pistons it slightly increases the cc of the engine but more importantly creates more pressure in the cylinders. This is what i recall dont take it as a certainty You got that a little backwards, you want low compression for forced induction cars and high compression for straight motor or nitrous cars. The 3.6liter in the tribeca is a high comp ratio engine 10.5 to 1 even with direct injection the comp ratio would still need to come down to 9to1-9.5 to 1 for it to be a streetable reliable car. The porsche 3.6 is a 9 to 1 engine BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacks GT Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 You got that a little backwards, you want low compression for forced induction cars and high compression for straight motor or nitrous cars. The 3.6liter in the tribeca is a high comp ratio engine 10.5 to 1 even with direct injection the comp ratio would still need to come down to 9to1-9.5 to 1 for it to be a streetable reliable car. The porsche 3.6 is a 9 to 1 engine BTW. Oh....ok thanks for the clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDxBOOST Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 h6tt is in the works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backlash Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 With the money I save on insurance alone, I could make my LGT faster than an STI. So I'm fine with that 8) 99% of the reason i bought the LGT. other 1%... Heated leather seats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 heres the thing. 300hp in the GT will be unfriendly to STI sales. you dont want to compete with yourself. get a downpipe, uppipe and an accessport and there you go 300hp.OK, then what about when the GT had more HP than the WRX last year? Do you think that many people bought a GT in lieu of the 08 WRX? There's already a 330S STi in Europe, and rumor is that the "new" STi will have 380 hp, so the LGT isn't competing with it even if it miraculously sprouted 300hp. It isn't far-fetched to see 2009 WRX specs (265 hp, stiffer but still tour-worthy suspension) into the LGT somewhere along the line. The LGT is a GT, and if it rode like an STi, it wouldn't be. Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katalyst Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 get a downpipe, uppipe and an accessport and there you go 300hp. that in itself is why the legacy cannot keep up to the european marques. the target market for that class is generally not interested or inclined to modify their vehicles. it needs more out of the box performance if it wants to be taken seriously. on top of that, you could just as easily say that one should get a down/up pipe, ECU tune for the 335xi ....then what....it would blow the legacy out of the water with that said, i love the legacy and subaru for what they are. but i also know what they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmako Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 The funny thing is, the Legacy GT here is a 2.0L with about 260 ps (E5AT) / 280 ps (6MT) (256/276 HP roughly). Even the STI is not that much more, and it costs an @$$load of money for some outer bits and nice suspension. I feel the Legacy could be better with the following setup: Legacy base models: 2.0 / 2.5, whatever, they are base models Legacy GT: 275 HP, bigger turbo and exhaust Legacy GT spec B: 325 HP and the better suspension Legacy 3.0R and spec B: More plush, but sporting 290 - 310 HP Legacy STI: 375 HP, and all STI goodies. That lineup would not be boy-racer, but have more enthusiast HP to keep the public satisfied. And if the top STI model was about $40K (not $55K like it is here), they would sell like crazy.... Just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 The funny thing is, the Legacy GT here is a 2.0L with about 260 ps (E5AT) / 280 ps (6MT) (256/276 HP roughly). Even the STI is not that much more, and it costs an @$ of money for some outer bits and nice suspension. //That's not all, the STi has a helical front LSD, Torsen rear LSD, and mechanical center diff. Does the STi have badges all over it in Japan? Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawl Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 OK, then what about when the GT had more HP than the WRX last year? Do you think that many people bought a GT in lieu of the 08 WRX? There's already a 330S STi in Europe, and rumor is that the "new" STi will have 380 hp, so the LGT isn't competing with it even if it miraculously sprouted 300hp. It isn't far-fetched to see 2009 WRX specs (265 hp, stiffer but still tour-worthy suspension) into the LGT somewhere along the line. The LGT is a GT, and if it rode like an STi, it wouldn't be. The lgt is more expensive than the wrx. But the wrx now has to compete with the ralliart. It's all competition. Won't always make sense but you can't dump all the goodies from your bag in the beginning. car for sale. PM me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddseth Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I see the power for the 2010 or 2011 STi going to around 340 hp to keep pace with the WRX's 265 HP. If you notice, all of the 08' STis around the country are going for a 5-8K discount off of MSRP because they realize that the performance differential between the WRX and STi is not worth the 9K premium of the former over the latter. This would allow for some growing room for the 2010 LGT. This is just my opinion created from information from reputable sources, but I am 95% sure that we will get new N/A and turbo 4-cylinder motors from subaru in the near future and that these powertrains will most likely feature direct injection and will debut in the 2010 Legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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