Any news on std HID lights & more power?

[jws3]

Forgive me if i sound plebian, but are we indeed comparing Subaru to the likes of BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Infiniti? I am new to Subaru, but I have long followed the activities of the aforementioned brands, and according to my knowledge, don't the latter 3 brands shoot for a different customer base entirely? In the issue of "Drive" magazine I just received, Subaru admits to being a niche brand, targeting specific people, and it mentioned "park enthusiasts" i believe. Plus, aside from the 128i/135i, what model from either BMW/MB/Infiniti retails below $33,000? At that price, you can get a fully loaded SpecB, correct?

 

Again,

 

My point is that the LGT is so good in many ways that I can compare it to a 335xi. It's that close, at least to me (status nonsense excluded). All it needs are a few additions like available HID lights and I'd be quite tempted. No doubt many others might be as well.

 

I've written SOA- maybe if others did too they'd get the message.

[f1anatic]

JWS3,

 

If you only read the forums a little more.

You are wrong on two counts right off the bet: HIDs the dealer breaker. Upgraded lights are just 50 bucks away- yellower a tad but by no means the difference you think.

 

I've been on this website from very early on and I have seen ALL there is to be seen and told about these cars and what people have written to and asked from SOA.

 

Then...with your fear of upgrading the performance. First this is not BMW but Subaru. if you burn a clutch is 600 dollars not 6000. Second, there are actually dealerships which are mod or light mods friendly . Third but most important, the number of Stage 2 Legacy GTs on our boards - running about 18 peak PSI which you guessed it - is about 4 more than peak stock - is far greater than the Stock and Stage 1 Legacys added together. And then there are those whose Legacy would put the M to shame. Blown motors ? Very Rare and Uncommon.

 

Not that I do not agree with the HIDs...but it is such a fad. Coming from a 335xi you will be didsapointed with the fit and finish of the Subaru and then you will decry on the boards the poor quality and the rattles of this car.You are in the market for a car that Subaru does not make. Go look at the Infinity or Acura. They make the car you want. Or wait for the 2010 model year to come out. Who knows. But to reiterate, with this current outgoing Legacy, you are complaining for nothing. Subarus are cars you get to love for their imperfections...and for the ability to make them into something you want that you could not get from the factory.

[Viber]

I've already started saving my next car's down payment, with the intention of waiting on the 2010 LGT. I like my current LGT a lot, but if Subaru doesnt step up in a big way, there is no way they will get my money again.

 

It has to come at least as well featured as the new Mazda6 or the TSX, which means freaking HID's. There is absolutely no reason for them no to be offered. The new LGT must be much more powerful than the WRX, as it is Subaru's flagship Sedan. It should feature the STI's 305hp engine.

 

As of right now I am leaning toward BMW 335xi and Infinit G37x. The new A4 3.0 is interesting as well, but it is a little light on power for its class.

[Jerboa113]

food for thought on those 2.. nothing drives like a bmw.. and.. I tested a G37 (not the X..) and it had some annoying variable steering that made it very unpredictable to handle tight maneuvers.. sometimes it was easy to turn.. others very very hard.. the dealer told me there was no way to turn it off.

 

I'm anxious to see what the 2010 looks like, but until my LGT drops the ball and breaks something I plan to keep it. I've got too many irons in the fire right now (as I ALWAYS seem to do) to be buying a nice car and getting stuck in a neighborhood I'm not enthusiastic about because of a 5 year commitment to transportation.

[jws3]

I cannot agree with some of the following

 

JWS3,

 

If you only read the forums a little more.

You are wrong on two counts right off the bet: HIDs the dealer breaker. Upgraded lights are just 50 bucks away- yellower a tad but by no means the difference you think.

 

I read them, but am not an expert. I've seen cars with the $50 "upgraded" bulbs. Not in the same universe as far as I am concerned.

 

I've been on this website from very early on and I have seen ALL there is to be seen and told about these cars and what people have written to and asked from SOA.

 

Then...with your fear of upgrading the performance. First this is not BMW but Subaru. if you burn a clutch is 600 dollars not 6000. Second, there are actually dealerships which are mod or light mods friendly . Third but most important, the number of Stage 2 Legacy GTs on our boards - running about 18 peak PSI which you guessed it - is about 4 more than peak stock - is far greater than the Stock and Stage 1 Legacys added together. And then there are those whose Legacy would put the M to shame. Blown motors ? Very Rare and Uncommon.

 

$600 for a clutch is certainly more reasonable than $2k BMW charges. I find the stage 2 process interesting but have one major hesitation besides warranty fears- Noise. Can't stand a louder, rumbly exhaust in a daily driver. Yes, this means I am past 30

 

Not that I do not agree with the HIDs...but it is such a fad. Coming from a 335xi you will be didsapointed with the fit and finish of the Subaru and then you will decry on the boards the poor quality and the rattles of this car.You are in the market for a car that Subaru does not make. Go look at the Infinity or Acura. They make the car you want. Or wait for the 2010 model year to come out. Who knows. But to reiterate, with this current outgoing Legacy, you are complaining for nothing. Subarus are cars you get to love for their imperfections...and for the ability to make them into something you want that you could not get from the factory.

 

I must disagree on the "fad" aspect, unless they are replaced by LEDs. As for poor quality of a Subaru, I must again disagree. I had my MIL buy one and several others. BMWs are far from perfect--I've owned 4 or 5 and know full well. Wouldn't even go near an Acura or Infinity. Too boring & "blah". I LIKE the Subarus as they are unique. I'm not in the market now (mine 335xi is an '08), just thinking ahead and genuinely curious where Subaru is going. You know, I like to root for the underdog. This while thread go started because a colleague was looking for a car & I again recommended the LGT. He, like me, passed due to the lack of HID lights. I just happen to really like the LGT and want it to push a little more and kick BMW's overpriced butt.

 

[Jerboa113]

i'm approaching 30 and I cant stand loud vehicles.. especially other peoples!

[oddseth]

MSRP for the Spec.B is $34,595, and with a few options I've got one priced out at $37,200 on their website. Once you start adding on dealer options like Bluetooth, iPod integration, Lojack, paint protection (since the Subaru paint sucks), etc. you can push it up close to 335xi territory.

 

Edit: All told, mine was just over $38k including state tax and warranty. The 335i starts at $40,100, which is well within cross-shopping for me.

 

Keep in mind, though, that if you shop around, there are plenty of dealers willing to sell a $35K Spec.B for $31K, and last time I checked, you cannot get much more than a $1K discount on a 335 unless you are paying all cash or are taking euro delivery. Thus, you have $31,5 K for a loaded spec compared to $39K for a 335 with no options (vinyl manual seats, no sport package, etc.)

[Jerboa113]

manual seats in a bmw is like a 4cyl in a corvette.. thast one thing that gets me about bmw.. they have all kinds of great features. but they are at GREAT expense. I couldn't get a 335i sedan out the door BEFORE TTT for less than $50k.. I couldn't get a 335i coupe out the door before TTT for less than 49K.. it was ridiculous.

 

That being said.. I just cant see paying more than $29k for an LGT.. spec B or otherwise.

[LuckyBob]

Keep in mind, though, that if you shop around, there are plenty of dealers willing to sell a $35K Spec.B for $31K, and last time I checked, you cannot get much more than a $1K discount on a 335 unless you are paying all cash or are taking euro delivery. Thus, you have $31,5 K for a loaded spec compared to $39K for a 335 with no options (vinyl manual seats, no sport package, etc.)

 

Minor quibble with that last statement - you can get a no-to-few options Spec.B for around $31k, but by no means loaded. There aren't too many Subaru options, but they can still tack on a couple grand. I paid about $32K for the car itself with ~$4K in options.

[oddseth]

Did you get a spec or a regular GT?

 

By fully loaded, I mean that it includes moon roof, power leather seats (BMW has leatherette), 6 cd premium audio with 385 watts, heated front seats, 18" wheels (17" standard on 335xi), sports suspension, navigation, fold down rear seats, etc. A 335Xi with comparable options would be close to $48K, which is definitely above Spec.B territory.

 

The only non-performance options for the Spec. are spoiler, winter mats, auto dimming compass, center armrest extension, etc. I was quoted on an 09' spec.b with sti pinks, sti short throw, and auto dimming compass for 31K (ordered from factory, not from existing dealer stock).

[dga]

You only need a down pipe to go stage two, so only thing that gets louder is your turbo. Which is not that bad at all.

[Jerboa113]

^ then you might actually be able to tell our cars are even turbo'd at all. You really cant ever hear the stock turbo setup on these cars it seems.

 

I look forward to stage 2 eventually..

[jws3]

Keep in mind, though, that if you shop around, there are plenty of dealers willing to sell a $35K Spec.B for $31K, and last time I checked, you cannot get much more than a $1K discount on a 335 unless you are paying all cash or are taking euro delivery. Thus, you have $31,5 K for a loaded spec compared to $39K for a 335 with no options (vinyl manual seats, no sport package, etc.)

 

I got a good 3-4K off MSRP last fall on a loaded 335xi. Pretty much all options but HD radio & sunshades. Still big $ for a 3 series, hence my recommendation of the LGT to other enthusiasts not dumb enough to spend what I did. When it's time to change I hope for my own sake that Subaru has it's act together and at least offers HIDs on the upper models. Really, how much more could they cost?

[djsnoops]

3 series is a rip off!

[f1anatic]

Guys who said Stage 2 cars are loud ? They are NOT - only if you throw in an axle/cat-back with fart cans. I kept my stock exhaust and i am S2, i have quite decent numbers and the only difference is a more disctinct boxer rumble at idle.

[qp_20]

It is interesting to see and read about the things that motivate a person to buy one car over another. When I bought my GT I was looking at to other cars: A G35 coupe and a Cadillac CTS. So I was looking at three cars which were each in a different class. After driving the three I walked away with a Subaru. I thought that HID was very important to me, but in the end I walked away with the only car that didn't come with HID. I do wish that it was an option here, but it wasn't.

 

The territory of BMW is a place that I don't think Subaru will ever tread, and for good reason. Subaru is a niche brand that isn't trying to appeal to the masses. It is clear that jws3 would fall into that niche if there was one more option available. I cannot fault a person for passing on a car that doesn't offer the options that they were looking for. The hp thing does confuse me a bit though. Horsepower is just a number as the more important factor is what a car does with that power that should matter the most. Subaru does quite a bit with the 241 the Legacy produces, and is easily able to keep up with cars with far more ponies. In the end the decision for me was made by that factor alone.

 

The Cadillac was exactly what one would expect an American Luxary sedan to be. The G35 was a very nice car, but had to come with 32,000 miles to be in my price range, and it just didn't provide the same feeling that the LGT provided. I would have never given my purchase a second thought if Subaru would have provided HID as an option, so instead I deal with the halogen bulbs and maybe next time I am in the market there won't be any questions.

[fishbone]

jws3, on the account of HID vs halogen, just keep in mind the poor yellow appearance of a halogen bulb is not a shortcoming of the design as much as it is a shortcuming of lightbulb. I cannot recommend these enough: OSRam Rallye 65w bulbs. They are filled with xenon-gas so they actually do not dim at all for 90% of their lifetime. The light output ... 2100 lumens compared to ~3200 for HIDs. The gap is diminishing. I actually rode with a friend of mine in his HID-equipped BMW 3er and got into an argument over what headlights he had. I was asking him if he was sure he had HIDs because they didn't seem a whole lot brighter than mine. In real-life situations, I have read an independend report that outline the reaction time difference between halogen and HID is well under 20%, IIRC it's around 10% actually. That's statistically almost negligible. What does make a difference on your BMW is auto-leveling headlights that also turn with your steering wheel. Subaru also happens to employ one of the best projectors on the market.

If the thought of a retrofit is intimidating to you, which I completely understand because it is for me too, there are members here that will do it for you for well under 1 grand and basically all you will have to do is swap out headlights. No cutting, no nothing.

 

And you don't know the meaning of glare until you run into an OEM HID-equipped BMW X3 or X5 coming at you from the opposite direction ...

 

To be completely fair, the 335 actually is underrated. They claim 300hp but it dynos close to that at the wheels, which means the engine is really putting out close to 340hp at the crank.

 

You ought to read some more threads in regards to Stage mods. I can tell you for certain Stage 2 can sound completely stock but with a very nice addition of power I know because I drive one with the stock exhaust. The track-record of reliability is, for the most part, spotless. Yes, there have been failures here and there but they are far and in between for the most part as long as the mods have been done properly and the car has been in the hands of a responsible owner. Trust me when I say that the levels of power don't have anything to do with the strength of the drivetrain, but rather, basically, vehicle line-up. Knock on wood as to not tempt fate but even the autotragic can handle close to 300awhp levels stock.

 

Personally, I wouldn't step out of a BMW short of a bad owner experience such as multiple and expensive issues, crappy dealer experiences [as if Subaru is any different], etc.

[Viber]

K, I can almost understand the lack of HIDs if they werent available anywhere, but this appears to be stictly a North American problem for some reason.

 

Hell, even the base Legacy comes with HID's in the UK. Even the near base Impreza 1.5 RX model has HIDS. Its insane

 

Now I dont want HID's because they look cool, I want them because they are nice and bright. Much brighter than halogen bulbs. When a car with HIDs is pulled up next to mine the difference is nauseating. Stock Subaru bulbs are just too dim for my tastes.

[Jerboa113]

^ thus my conclusion that subaru doesn't really like america that much.. either that or fuji heavy doesn't like SOA.

 

Maybe not tho? I mean I remember there being "E-code" projectors for European models that have a cutoff thats more solid so as not to allow light above the line. Perhaps it is the US DOT's standards that have made it too expensive for subaru to warrant the option of HIDs in the legacy model?

 

that last part is a bit more rational.

[jws3]

K, I can almost understand the lack of HIDs if they werent available anywhere, but this appears to be stictly a North American problem for some reason.

 

Hell, even the base Legacy comes with HID's in the UK. Even the near base Impreza 1.5 RX model has HIDS. Its insane

 

Now I dont want HID's because they look cool, I want them because they are nice and bright. Much brighter than halogen bulbs. When a car with HIDs is pulled up next to mine the difference is nauseating. Stock Subaru bulbs are just too dim for my tastes.

 

 

This is exactly my point- Why do so many other countries get them, even in base models, while we get primitive and to my eyes far harder to see with halogens?

 

Why can't SOA look up instead of down? Short sighted, IMO.

[fishbone]

Could be tied into local regulation and remember that people here are a lot more sensitive to prices than they are over in Europe. Rain-sensing auto wipers, auto-leveling bixenon headlights that turn with the steering wheel, all these are more or less standard on the Skoda Octavia now which would be the equivalent of ... oh, I dunno ... Ford Focus in the US? Just a really basic run-of-the-mill car. But as far as price goes ... How do you also explain than an imported BMW is cheaper here than it is in Europe, when it should be cheaper there since it's built locally so not taxed to oblivion. Case in point, a 335 here starts at 40K, in Europe it starts at arount 36K Euros, which is right around 48K at the current exchange rates.

[johnAWD]

The aftermarket can solve your issues, and it won't break the bank. Stage 2 power can be 300+ awhp, and an HID bulb/ballast/harness runs around $125.

[RJS5689]

Could be tied into local regulation and remember that people here are a lot more sensitive to prices than they are over in Europe. Rain-sensing auto wipers, auto-leveling bixenon headlights that turn with the steering wheel, all these are more or less standard on the Skoda Octavia now which would be the equivalent of ... oh, I dunno ... Ford Focus in the US? Just a really basic run-of-the-mill car. But as far as price goes ... How do you also explain than an imported BMW is cheaper here than it is in Europe, when it should be cheaper there since it's built locally so not taxed to oblivion. Case in point, a 335 here starts at 40K, in Europe it starts at arount 36K Euros, which is right around 48K at the current exchange rates.

 

Yep, we looked into taking European delivery on a BMW and you save between 3-6K on the car.

 

Either way, this thread makes me :lol:. Sounds like a typical BMW owner.... and having been one I can say that.

[qp_20]

There might be a glommer of hope on the power situation since the 2009 WRX is rated at 265 and the Impreza got a 2.5GT model with 224. With that in mind the Legacy is currently stranded in the middle. I would think that the LGT would get at least 265 in one of the models. The plan could be to leave the GT at its current output, have the Spec B at the 265 level, and possibly leave room for an STI model. Well the STI model is just wishful thinking...but the power output of the WRX definately leaves a glimmer of hope for higher power levels for the Legacy.

[Guest Gitster]

There might be a glommer of hope

 

 

What's a glommer