IwannaSportSedan Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Someone or something that "glomms on." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Yep, we looked into taking European delivery on a BMW and you save between 3-6K on the car. I am obviously missing something. I took the figures straight from the MSRP on the sites. Starting XYZ on BMWUSA compared to Starting at XYZ on a random European site. So what is it that I am missing? Dealer mark-up? European Delivery is an entirely different ballgame. Here's how it works and why it works. Many people ask why cars have a lower price when purchased through ED. The reason is that BMW and BMWNA sell cars through ED outside of the usual dealer incentive programs offered by BMWNA to its dealers. US BMW dealers receive incentive payments from BMW NA based on customer satisfaction, or “CSI” scores. Those scores, in conjunction with the number of cars sold, result in incentive payments. BMWs sold through the ED program do not increase a dealer’s unit sales and are not subject to the CSI program. Because BMW NA does not pay out this incentive money, they are able to pass along those savings to you in the form of a reduced price on an ED car. The amount of the discount is approximately equal to the potential CSI money a dealer would receive on the sale of the same car through US delivery. The savings are not a result of different taxes or duties, as many people speculate. The duty on an imported car, whether new or used, is 2.5% of the declared value. In other words, duty makes up about $1000-$1500 of the price a 3-series BMW. Any reduction in value because it is used would not significantly change the amount of duty. Even a full exemption would not fully account for the price savings of ED. So in other words an American that bought a BMW for the US is cheaper than a German that bought a BMW for Germany. Prices for cars in Europe, matter of fact for everything, are higher period. And that's what I was trying to say. SOA has to use all sorts of price-cutting strategies to accomodate the offering to the general price brackets Americans are willing to pay. No offense to anyone here but a fully decked out Spec.B is still a hard price to swallow for me for a car that is not, as far as I am concerned at least, in the premium market and it's well within the reaches of a decent BMW 3er. It is not entirely without reason USDMs are cheaply made and poorly equipped when compared to their European counterparts. Shit, the abovementioned Skoda Octavia has just about a nicer interior than my USDM Legacy. And it's for that reason, for example, Honda markets some of their Acura cars under the Honda brand. Because a USDM Honda wouldn't be up to par. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qp_20 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 um...yeah...gloms on...I will go with that, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacy3R Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 what warranty are you breaking with hids? Are you going to try to have a headlight bulb replaced under warranty? Thats like trying to have a windshield wiper blade replaced.. things fail.. they just do.. you cant expect to have EVERYTHING covered. Actually on my 08 3.0 my windshield wiper blades are covered under warranty. All you have to do is tell the service adviser that your "windshield wipers are streaking". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psucaptainkickass Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 what warranty are you breaking with hids? Are you going to try to have a headlight bulb replaced under warranty? Thats like trying to have a windshield wiper blade replaced.. things fail.. they just do.. you cant expect to have EVERYTHING covered. While you don't have to cut wires or anything. Installing a HID kit in your car means you have to hook a ballast up to the electrical system. Therefore, you have just voided the entire electrical system in the car. Good luck trying to prove/disprove your HID system has nothing to do with the stereo or some other electrical component. The electrical system is complex enough that you'll never be able to sort that out. Now this is the devil's advocate perspective. I have a HID kit myself and haven't had any problems in 45,000 miles....just saying, that's the stance the dealer will take if you have ANY electrical problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Pretty sure that Magnusson-Moss is more specific than that. Installing HIDs might void warranty on the wiring for the headlight circuit. I doubt it would affect something on a whole different circuit, and they would have to establish that it did, in order to deny warranty coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psucaptainkickass Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Essentially the act says this (grabbed it from a website): No aftermarket part or accessory that is properly installed on your vehicle will entirely void your original vehicle manufacturers warranty We all know this, it's been stated here and other car forums many many times. However, I have never heard of anyone actually using it, to successfully defend their car modification...either in court (most likely where it will have to be) or by stating this fact at the dealer. Sure it may not affect another circuit, but do you really think they are going to check that. You are going to have to take them to court to do that. It's simple for them, the stereo is out, it's not getting power. Let's check the eletrical system..fuses...etc...Oh what's this a ballast connected to the electrical system. You modified the electrical system, you voided the electrical system warranty. It will be as simple as that. Some dealers that are more mod-friendly have better common sense. But it is easier for the dealer to deny coverage...hope you pay a bit, than it is for you to go to court over the matter. Some dealers have even gone further to correlate unrelated systems...I can even fathom someone saying...you lowered the car with non-factory springs, these springs are stiffer and cause more jarring vibrations which is why bolt A, B, and C have loosened and come off. No coverage on those bolts, and the damage that those loose bolts have caused... Will Magnusson cover you there...good luck, because their explanation is certainly plausable to a judge...no jurys in small claims... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyBob Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 [...]Therefore, you have just voided the entire electrical system in the car. Good luck trying to prove/disprove your HID system has nothing to do with the stereo or some other electrical component. The electrical system is complex enough that you'll never be able to sort that out.[...] Per the verbiage in Subaru's (2008) warranty: They cannot "void" your warranty. Only deny specific claims.The onus is on Subaru to prove that the additions and changes made because of the HIDs being installed caused the problems. If they find that your HIDs did cause your stereo to fail (for example), they can deny the warranty claim and bill you for the time to determine that the HIDs caused the problem. Granted, that'd be pretty tough to prove and I'm sure you'd have to fight the dealer a lot on it, but the on paper version sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psucaptainkickass Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 If they deny your claim, it is because the warranty is voided on a specfic part of the car. Of course Subaru can't void your warranty, because it is the owner of the car that voided their warranty. Anyways, whatever, I have never said anything about voiding the entire warranty of the car. I am just pointing out that if you modify any part of the electrical system, you're fighting an uphill fight if they deny your claim. Whatever the veribiage is on paper, it's meaningless. Everything sounds reasonable on paper, because Subaru pays its lawyers to make things sound reasonable. When it comes to actual practice, you're in for a fight. Again...has anyone here ever used the M-M act to successfully get anything done? And not "...my buddy did..." I am looking for actual first hand accounts...with Subaru or any other car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 While you don't have to cut wires or anything. Installing a HID kit in your car means you have to hook a ballast up to the electrical system. Therefore, you have just voided the entire electrical system in the car. Good luck trying to prove/disprove your HID system has nothing to do with the stereo or some other electrical component. The electrical system is complex enough that you'll never be able to sort that out. Now this is the devil's advocate perspective. I have a HID kit myself and haven't had any problems in 45,000 miles....just saying, that's the stance the dealer will take if you have ANY electrical problems. it's called a fuse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Per the verbiage in Subaru's (2008) warranty: They cannot "void" your warranty. Only deny specific claims.The onus is on Subaru to prove that the additions and changes made because of the HIDs being installed caused the problems. If they find that your HIDs did cause your stereo to fail (for example), they can deny the warranty claim and bill you for the time to determine that the HIDs caused the problem. Granted, that'd be pretty tough to prove and I'm sure you'd have to fight the dealer a lot on it, but the on paper version sounds perfectly reasonable to me. fixing a failed stereo should be cheap. you guys should be more afraid of engine damage due to the a/p and the such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Some dealers have even gone further to correlate unrelated systems...I can even fathom someone saying...you lowered the car with non-factory springs, these springs are stiffer and cause more jarring vibrations which is why bolt A, B, and C have loosened and come off. No coverage on those bolts, and the damage that those loose bolts have caused... Will Magnusson cover you there...good luck, because their explanation is certainly plausable to a judge...no jurys in small claims... ever heard of the FAA? i bet you have. that vibration stuff on electronics is real. same thing to mechanics. just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jws3 Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 it's called a fuse... It doesn't always work in the real world of warranty averse dealers and those seeking any possible excuse to deny claims. Remember, once denied the burden is on YOU to show coverage. How will you do this? When the dealer says "no" to a $500 item are you going to spend $2000 in legal costs to fight it? Will you go to court over it? Should you? What is "right" and what dealers & manufacturers do are often quite different. One can be right and rather quickly turn dollars in dimes in any attempt to prove it. I am not saying don't do any mods--just be aware and smart about them. Get to know your service people and don't be a jerk to them. No quicker way to lose the benefit of the doubt..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbrudder Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 jws3, I think you made the right choice going with the 335, BMW seems to suit you perfect. I think they have a forum too, somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psucaptainkickass Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 ever heard of the FAA? i bet you have. that vibration stuff on electronics is real. same thing to mechanics. just saying... Oh it's definitely real. Which is why the dealer's explanation would be plausible to a judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jws3 Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 jws3, I think you made the right choice going with the 335, BMW seems to suit you perfect. I think they have a forum too, somewhere else. Thanks for adding to the discussion....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gasaraki Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I agree HIDs are nice, more power is nice, and better mileage is nice however you are comparing a 05 - 09 Legacy to brand new lineups from other companies. Subarus are not BMWs, if you want to spend $10,000 to $20,000 more for your lights and power go right ahead. Something might be out in 2010 that's better but probably not by much. Subarus are modders cars. If you don't want to touch your car get the BMW. If you want to tweak and tinker and get more power that way, Subarus are the car. I don't even know why we are trying to convince someone that won't buy a car because it doesn't have HIDs... Plus my LGT didn't cost $37,000, more like $29,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 go aftermarket xenon...i have for a while now and dont regret it. remember nay saying clowns. the xenon is actually less harsh on the electric system than a h bulb is. except for that initial current turn on rush anyways...but i bet so far no one has han an issue with this. i cut the drl wire and have been fine ever since. no hassle from cops and people still want to put their busted cars in front so i figure they arent blinding anyone. cut off has been fine. i now light up the sidewalks on both sides of the street. seriously...a short block costs a LOT more than a "fried" oem radio. not to mention common folk think xenon is upper end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 OK....so.....I spent my precious...precious time this Sunday morning reading through all 5 pages. Now I must say that comparing a Subaru to a BMW is just stupid....I'm sorry jsw, but it really is. I mean when buying a new car you can do that, but if you are going to compare with power and suspension and etc that is just plain stupid. As much as I really hate BMW because personally I think today you are just buying the name more so than anything else, because from personal experience, my friend bought the 328xi for $46,000, mean while I bought my 06' LGT for $31,000 after taxes. and to say anything about that is this: I have much more room(interior, not to mention trunk space), Dealer HID's costed him an extra couple hundred......meanwhile I got mine for 110( i know some people..legal people).....and very nice I have to say, I have been told that they compliment the color and the look of my car plenty of times. -----Not to mention how much my friend now wants to change his "stock" HID's to after market because the "whiteness is just plain dull" --- as he states... After a head on comparison of interior effects, and comfotableness, I have gotten much higher ratings from guests(saying that the sleeper effect really take a person over on the car) ---- Not to mention BMW's dog on runflats that doo nothing but make the ride stiffer and even more unenjoyable. Fact is, especially with 06 and later models(BMW) you cannot change out any lights without messing with the computer (example) ---- My friend put some Piaa (vey nice matter of fact) bulbs in (signals) and automatically when he turned on the car about 5 minutes into the drive the car wouldn't shut up about low power output to the signals.....its crazy, same thing happened when he put led's to the license plate lights, you honestly cannot put anything in a BMW without tampering with the computer to tell it, please let me do this and that. And lastly, just for your info, if you really needed all that power, you could have gotten the 06or ^ legacy gt, and as others have stated just have spent literally in total maybe 700$ to get a DP, UP and a 50/50 BOV, which would have really let go on power..... I don't mean to bash but I really hate it when Bimmer drivers try to compare their cars against ours, cuz truth be told, with only 2,000$$ or maybe less my LGT could put some very nice M's out there (as someone has already stated) to shame.....big time. Like I said, I'm not one to bash, but it really looks like you are a bimmer driver, not a Scubby driver, like others have said, this is a car that you learn to love.......yes I had my one month of doubt after buying the car, thinking "o god what did I do, I shoulda gotten that Benz", but matter in fact, I spent 10k's less and am still up to par with that benz in power and ect.. and I have to say, I have learned to love my car as every other scubby driver in this forum has too. So like I said, you truly are a BMW type a guy(no offense at all) it's just you can really tell the difference about a person and what they should drive, every BMW driver I know have that swagger(not good either)(and I dont know if that comes before or after you buy the bimmer......it's a mystery to me) and they think they are among the elite "tribe" of car owners(re: BMW), but as I do beieve F1anatic stated "a burnt clutch will only cost us 600(less actually) and it will cost you 6000$(just for talk not really), so it really is all about buying the name more so than the safety, perfomance and ect. I dont mean to rant(although I've failed on that point) but maybe i'm saying all this because, because I have an undying hatred for BMW and it's brand selling. I mean I liked the car at one point, but when I've realized that my friend and many others have bought an almost $50,000 car and I bought a $30,000, and I get far better ratings from the public, it really just makes me feel good (o gosh, i think i'm getting carried away with hate here) But anyway'z back to the conversation on hand.......yes BMW is great, they have unsurrpassed handling, and etc, but in the long run, you will spend far more time and money on maintenance and perfomance jobs, than that of a Subaru owner will ever have to. and On that note....i am going to go water my eyes......I haven't blinked once since writing this...... (as a side note to all this, I'm not saying that I hate you jsw, or any BMW drivers, I just hate the car you drive, no hard feelings) I've Crashed My ROFLChopper into a LOLCanOhttp://legacygt.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=16939&dateline=1230531251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jws3 Posted November 2, 2008 Author Share Posted November 2, 2008 Here we go: OK....so.....I spent my precious...precious time this Sunday morning reading through all 5 pages. Now I must say that comparing a Subaru to a BMW is just stupid....I'm sorry jsw, but it really is. I mean when buying a new car you can do that, but if you are going to compare with power and suspension and etc that is just plain stupid. Why is a comparison "stupid"? I think a Subaru can do well against a BMW and just needs a little more push from SOA to give it an edge. HID lights, for example, should be available in higher models. Even my wife's MINIVAN has them! As much as I really hate BMW because personally I think today you are just buying the name more so than anything else, because from personal experience, my friend bought the 328xi for $46,000, mean while I bought my 06' LGT for $31,000 after taxes. and to say anything about that is this: I have much more room(interior, not to mention trunk space), Dealer HID's costed him an extra couple hundred......meanwhile I got mine for 110( i know some people..legal people).....and very nice I have to say, I have been told that they compliment the color and the look of my car plenty of times. -----Not to mention how much my friend now wants to change his "stock" HID's to after market because the "whiteness is just plain dull" --- as he states... Well.....I can't disagree that some buy for the name. I'm increasingly tired of BMW's nonsense, which is why I recommend Subaru to others & wanted one myself. As for your friend's preferences, if I had to guess he's under 30, maybe even 25, right? Only younger gys seem to feel that way. Stock HIDs are usually around 4300K, which I understand yields the most light, even if they lack the very subjective "cool" factor of weird colors. I decline to substitute my opinion for that of experienced lighting engineers. After a head on comparison of interior effects, and comfotableness, I have gotten much higher ratings from guests(saying that the sleeper effect really take a person over on the car) ---- Not to mention BMW's dog on runflats that doo nothing but make the ride stiffer and even more unenjoyable. Fair enough. Can't stand the runflats myself. Fact is, especially with 06 and later models(BMW) you cannot change out any lights without messing with the computer (example) ---- My friend put some Piaa (vey nice matter of fact) bulbs in (signals) and automatically when he turned on the car about 5 minutes into the drive the car wouldn't shut up about low power output to the signals.....its crazy, same thing happened when he put led's to the license plate lights, you honestly cannot put anything in a BMW without tampering with the computer to tell it, please let me do this and that. True. BMW is just too fussy for its own good. I am increasingly disenchanted with this nonsense. I've owned 4 or so and am well aware of this. Just wiring my V1 and a laser jammer was a royal PITA. My current BMW might be the last.I have 2 more years on the lease and will likely either walk or get it CPO'd, which gets me an add'l 2 years of warranty. Never leased before. I always bought. The complexity, though, and detailed review of the numbers changed my mind this time. Buy vs. lease had a roughly equal outlay over 3-4 years. I'll let them take the risk. If I don't CPO then an LGT remains at the top of the current list of considerations. And lastly, just for your info, if you really needed all that power, you could have gotten the 06or ^ legacy gt, and as others have stated just have spent literally in total maybe 700$ to get a DP, UP and a 50/50 BOV, which would have really let go on power..... I don't mean to bash but I really hate it when Bimmer drivers try to compare their cars against ours, cuz truth be told, with only 2,000$$ or maybe less my LGT could put some very nice M's out there (as someone has already stated) to shame.....big time. I shy way from aftermarket. Too many risks and warranty problems, IMO, not to mention erratic quality. I'd only consider proven and OEM quality add ons. Look at all the people with HID light issues, for example. There are always posts about how one crapped out or how they have to remove bumpers & "bake" their lights to get them apart. WTF?? OEM lights don't do that. And, yes, I could do the work. I've been restoring some old 70's enduro bikes, so I doubt this would prove insurmountable. I don't want to HAVE to do that on a new 30K car. As for engine mods, there are some major warranty concerns to think about. Plus, I don't want anything louder than stock. Power: Yes! Noise: No! If you knew what I do about dealers, warranties and the law you too would be hesitant. Like I said, I'm not one to bash, but it really looks like you are a bimmer driver, not a Scubby driver, like others have said, this is a car that you learn to love.......yes I had my one month of doubt after buying the car, thinking "o god what did I do, I shoulda gotten that Benz", but matter in fact, I spent 10k's less and am still up to par with that benz in power and ect.. and I have to say, I have learned to love my car as every other scubby driver in this forum has too. You've never met me, so how do you know this? I've "sold" for Subaru several cars based on my recomendations. Wanted one myself, but just needed a little more from SOA. Maybe the 2010 model will do, unless they fuglify it and de-content it as well. Initial drawings show a lack of body side moldings, which to me show a switch to form over function. Don't like that at all. So like I said, you truly are a BMW type a guy(no offense at all) it's just you can really tell the difference about a person and what they should drive, every BMW driver I know have that swagger(not good either)(and I dont know if that comes before or after you buy the bimmer......it's a mystery to me) and they think they are among the elite "tribe" of car owners(re: BMW), but as I do beieve F1anatic stated "a burnt clutch will only cost us 600(less actually) and it will cost you 6000$(just for talk not really), so it really is all about buying the name more so than the safety, perfomance and ect. A clutch doesn't cost $6K. Maybe $1200. Some buy for the name. Not me. I dont mean to rant(although I've failed on that point) but maybe i'm saying all this because, because I have an undying hatred for BMW and it's brand selling. I mean I liked the car at one point, but when I've realized that my friend and many others have bought an almost $50,000 car and I bought a $30,000, and I get far better ratings from the public, it really just makes me feel good (o gosh, i think i'm getting carried away with hate here) But anyway'z back to the conversation on hand.......yes BMW is great, they have unsurrpassed handling, and etc, but in the long run, you will spend far more time and money on maintenance and perfomance jobs, than that of a Subaru owner will ever have to. True, which is why I've started to sour on BMW. They are getting too pricey and for too little in return. The MSRP of an '09 equipped as my '08 is now something like 54K, which is ludicrous for a 3 series. This might be my last one unless things change. I look forward to seeing the 2010 LGT model. Initial speculations have been all over the place. and On that note....i am going to go water my eyes......I haven't blinked once since writing this...... (as a side note to all this, I'm not saying that I hate you jsw, or any BMW drivers, I just hate the car you drive, no hard feelings) Fair enough. I have no hate, nor hard feelings. Yu called it like you saw it. I did not come here to stir up trouble. I came because I LIKE the LGT & want to understand why it is missing just that little bit more that would have swayed me and undoubtedly many others. Thanks for the comments & insight. Appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 jws3, you really need to get over your fear and reluctance of aftermarket. HIDs is a bad example to go by. There are loads of aftermarket parts that are even offered by the dealer and are solid and proven. Perrin, AVO, Prodrive, etc. These are the equivalent of Brabus, AC Schnitzer and Hamann in the BMW world, more or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Here we go: Fair enough. I have no hate, nor hard feelings. Yu called it like you saw it. I did not come here to stir up trouble. I came because I LIKE the LGT & want to understand why it is missing just that little bit more that would have swayed me and undoubtedly many others. Thanks for the comments & insight. Appreciated. Okay, I like all of your arguments , and I have to say I am sorry about that whole BMW swagger thing, i really got carried away (I usually don't), but do give my rebuttal a chance on a few points..... Yes my friend is in fact under 25, I know how it is because I am under 25, but I hold more mature morals and prioritize my spending profile more than he does (he's got money), yes I do agree that the Legacies/ Subaru's should have HID's stock, but I guess mgmt hasn't realized it yet. About the whole clutch thing, I specifically wrote next to it: ""I do beieve F1anatic stated "a burnt clutch will only cost us 600(less actually) and it will cost you 6000$(just for talk not really),"" ---> I know clutch's dont cost that much, but you get the point. and now on to your last closing piece about why subaru doesn't have that extra edge to fully complete your view: Fair enough. I have no hate, nor hard feelings. Yu called it like you saw it. I did not come here to stir up trouble. I came because I LIKE the LGT & want to understand why it is missing just that little bit more that would have swayed me and undoubtedly many others. Thanks for the comments & insight. Appreciated. -----Well, in a sense, if Subaru did have that 'little bit more' into it it would cost just that much more, and it would be just like the BMW in a sense.....would you agree.....If Mercedes Benz and Audi had all the same engineering skills, and gave their cars that little bit more.....it would be a BMW ....... right..... because as we all know, technically........Mercedes Benz and Audi(as much as I hate saying this about MB) they are really just a copy of the BMW, otherwise BMW would be a monopoly, and wouldn't need this high pricing......buuut because of competition, wouldn't you agree that it is a marketing strategy to price the cars so high......why you say....? Fact is that BMW owner(true owners that have had BMW in the family forever) will buy it no matter what, which will prove BMW's point of high prices...you know....so it would prove their point of "eliteness" and as a thing about the after market fun, it really depends who you trust really, I mean their are some reeeeaallly good aftermarket companies out their that are just like oem with that extra edge....and as the law, and all that, trust me, I probably hesitate more than anyone else in here to do anything that conflicts with the law, so I know what you mean As I stated before if Subaru, Audi and MB put that extra little bit.....they would essentially be a BMW ...... that is of course what I am getting from our little conversation, you know what I mean....... And as far as the "I did not come here to stir up trouble." goes, it's nothing to worry about, it would be like an Audi owner going into a BMW forum and stating the same question in his opinion of the Audi being better.........you know as well as I do that some of those guys would be itching their arms to get a whack at the Audi owner, it's just competition built into our mainframe after we buy the car, we love it and learn it....... kinda like HOG's, a Harley owner will get into a fight with someone because they don't own one, or bcuz they own a Suzuki...it's incredible, BUT As I stated early, I respect your opinion as everyone's' else s in here, and like I also said jsw, I don't hate you, you're a good guy P.S. --- I just loooove to argue.....for all you know I may own a Bimmer, or an MB LoL --- not really --- i cant afford either, my father's got the MB I've Crashed My ROFLChopper into a LOLCanOhttp://legacygt.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=16939&dateline=1230531251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 jws3, you really need to get over your fear and reluctance of aftermarket. HIDs is a bad example to go by. There are loads of aftermarket parts that are even offered by the dealer and are solid and proven. Perrin, AVO, Prodrive, etc. These are the equivalent of Brabus, AC Schnitzer and Hamann in the BMW world, more or less. I do believe Brabus is only for Mercedes benz.....right...? I think BMW only has AC Schnitzer, and Hamann....I've never heard of Brabus working on BMW....? Honestly if they do please tell me, I don't wanna say something stupid, LoL(as if I haven't already LOL) I've Crashed My ROFLChopper into a LOLCanOhttp://legacygt.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=16939&dateline=1230531251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I would not buy a car with HIDs. Just curious....why not....? if it came stock with no price added to it....why wouldn't you...? You didn't have some weird experience with them.....did you...? I've Crashed My ROFLChopper into a LOLCanOhttp://legacygt.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=16939&dateline=1230531251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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