Which GM Brand Will Go?

[SLegacy99]

 

What about environmental impact of said batteries and the disposal of them? I mean they wont be able to just let a car sit in a junkyard with the possibility that these things will leek into the soil will they?

 

Dunno bout Ford, Honda, or GM, but I know that Toyota has recycling plans for them. They temporarily shut this down as the don't have any batteries coming in.

[SLegacy99]

DETROIT — General Motors' core brand portfolio will shrink from eight to four by 2012, according to the ambitious restructuring plan the automaker laid out for lawmakers on Tuesday. The surviving brands would be Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC.

 

"Pontiac will be a specialty brand with reduced product offerings within the Buick-Pontiac-GMC channel," said General Motors in a statement. "GM will immediately undertake a global strategic review of the Saab brand. As part of the plan, the company also will accelerate discussions with Saturn retailers, consistent with their unique relationship, to explore alternatives for the Saturn brand."

 

GM has been shopping its Hummer brand since June.

 

The automaker said it needs $4 billion in federal loans by the end of December to stay in business. The automaker is requesting term loans of up to $12 billion from the government to "provide adequate liquidity levels through December 31, 2009." It is also requesting a $6 billion line of credit "to provide liquidity should a severe market downturn persist," it said. The automaker said it would begin repaying the loans by 2011.

 

While insisting it will remain "a full-line manufacturer," GM said it will substantially change its product mix over the next four years and "launch predominantly high-mileage, energy-efficient cars and crossovers."

 

It said it will invest about $2.9 billion in alternative fuels and advanced propulsion technologies during 2009-12, including plug-in electrics, gasoline-electric hybrids and fuel cells.

 

GM chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner has also agreed to accept a salary of $1 next year as part of the restructuring. Wagoner received a $1.6 million salary and $12.8 million in other compensation last year.

 

Inside Line says: If GM survives, it will be a shadow of its former self with a drastically reduced product portfolio. — Anita Lienert, Correspondent

 

Buick and GMC are worthless. Move Saturn downscale, where is started rather than having it in line with Chevy. Duh! Keep Pontiac, but make it performance only. No more of this minivan, boring SUV crap.

[TrueWhiteBoy]

No kidding, why keep GMC?

 

Also, does Saturn still do sticker pricing?

[IwannaSportSedan]

GMC is a commercial vendor. COMMERCIAL.

 

If you go to a diesel shop, they will help you with your GMC, they will laugh at Chevy.

 

And most of that is more than 3/4 ton trucks. More toward medium duty chassis-cabs. regular folks don't usually see that market, but it certainly does exist, and GM is not abandoning that commercial business. It is sales to them and capital investment for their commercial customers.

 

They had better do Pontiac VERY right, if it is going to be a niche. No re-brands, or at least not more than Camaro -> Firebird. G8, and a mid-size RWD sedan, like the Holden Toranna concept from a few years back. Solstice sports car upgrade, etc. Performance, and RWD only. Not rebadged Chevys or Saturns with a red arrow.

 

Buick isn't going anywhere, as long as it sells well to the seniors, and even better to the chinese. They really should bring over the Park Avenue as a Buick version of the Holden Senator/Caprice, upscale long wheelbase versions of the Commodore/G8, as well as the Opel Insignia-based Regal. Both of which China are getting, and the US doesn't.

 

the question is... will a transition from Saturn to Chevy go well... I thought Saturn was to gain marketshare that Chevy didn't really apply to, as sort of an import alternative, rather than a flag-waving american brand of econo-boxes, sedans, and trucks... and a couple of performance cars. Again, With Camaro and Corvette, Pontiac is going to be a trick to have as a niche performance segment, and not compete with those two.

 

I think Pontiac CAN do it, if the Firebird becomes a sleeker, lighter, RWD or even AWD coupe, smaller than the retro Camaro, and more modern/sophisticated aire. Focus more on the DFI V6 and automated transmission, and premium, sleek features, perhaps based on previously mentioned mid-size Toranna-like sedan, rather than bigger, brawnier, heavier, retro Camaro. Kind of a modernized, more sophisticated car with a sleek skin, and fastback hatch, like the latest Firebirds, not the earliest. It doesn't HAVE to be a Camaro re-brand, if it is done just right for a moderate sporty coupe. FWD would relegate it to a GM re-hash of the FWD Mercury Cougar, though. FWD is a no-go.

[franklin]

I never got GMC. Its a Chevy with different badges. Maybe get rid of Chevy trucks then and keep GMC , but why both ?

[IwannaSportSedan]

Do you see ambulances, or other chassis-cab-based service vehicles, or non-articulated cargo vehicles larger than a heavy-duty pickup, that have Chevy bowties? Some chevy pickups are sold as fleet vehicles, but above HD retail-grade pickups, it is ALL GMC.

 

Nope. If they are from GM, they say GMC. Can you say Commercial, General Motors Commercial, GMC... CO- MERRR- SHALLL!

 

Don't go by what you see on buick/pontiac dealer lots... They just want a Chevy Suburban and Silverado that they can sell, and not be left out of that former gravy train. So they stuck the GMC logo on those, too. Most of GMC branch business is BUSINESS, not retail light truck sales to private citizens.

[ehsnils]

A commercial outfit cares more about what they can get for the money than any specific brand. That includes both purchasing price and running costs.

[IwannaSportSedan]

But GM is not going to leave the commercial arena, and GMC is already in that socket. It would cost money to dissolve GMC, and have Chevy Trucks take that over. Customers may not care THAT much whether they buy something with a GMC or Chevy badge... as long as they get what they need. But GM doesn't have the resources for inconsequential moves.

 

Money that can be used to much better effect than merely shuffling the chairs on the Titanic. They need money to keep the Titanic afloat, so it is actually not unwise to forget about shuffling the chairs. The real question is what they are going to throw overboard to lighten the ballast. When throwing ballast overboard, you throw loose things that you don't need. You don't cut chunks out of the hull to throw overboard.

[Jerboa113]

I started to disagree with you on that but I kept reading and came around.

 

They're not necessarily on the titanic so much as they have too much weight on the boat.

 

Their business model is too heavy and their products dont give enough return... so they're sinking by having the water overflow onto the decks.

 

The best thing for anyone to do when they are in a financial pinch is minimize expenses and only spend that which is necessary to survive and necessary to invest in growing financially.

 

I support the plan that some in the current administration have suggested to re-purpose the "green" initiative that has already been approved to allow them to restructure. Anything more than that.. I just dont think we should have to fit the bill.

[ehsnils]

But GM is not going to leave the commercial arena, and GMC is already in that socket. It would cost money to dissolve GMC, and have Chevy Trucks take that over. Customers may not care THAT much whether they buy something with a GMC or Chevy badge... as long as they get what they need. But GM doesn't have the resources for inconsequential moves.

 

Maybe not really go that way, but a merger may be possible, and when it's time for the next generation the difference may only be the badge on the car.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Merger? Between Chevy and GMC?

 

They are the same company already. The only thing different are the sales channels, and slight marketing considerations. They are already designed and built under the same GM umbrella, by GM engineers. If they switch their GMC commercial line over to Chevy, they have to pay franchises and sales and service channels to change over all of their branding, and all new materials, and everything to now say Chevy, rather than GMC. A meaningless change that COSTS money for no real reason.

 

Again, it doesn't mean much to end user in the commercial market, but it will cost GM to change all of that branding. They have MUCH bigger fish to fry than that right now.

 

Leaving GM-Commercial alone and letting them keep doing what they are doing doesn't add additional cost overhead, and GM can focus on MEANINGFUL changes, not just meaningless, but still money-costing brand changes.

 

Cutting Saturn, and selling Hummer and Saab, IF they can, are going to cost plenty. Cutting Oldsmobile was costly. They aren't going to scrap branding when it will COST them money to scrap branding.

 

Saab and Volvo may be coming home to you swedes, or somewhere else, because they both are on the block now. The big three are telling them "you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here."

 

they aren't going to mess around with GMC's commercial market, when they have much more important things to be doing.

[TrueWhiteBoy]

Alright, as a commercial line GMC is useful, I can definitely see your point on that, but I do really hope they decide to do away with their pedestrian line.

[franklin]

Do you see ambulances, or other chassis-cab-based service vehicles, or non-articulated cargo vehicles larger than a heavy-duty pickup, that have Chevy bowties? Some chevy pickups are sold as fleet vehicles, but above HD retail-grade pickups, it is ALL GMC.

 

Nope. If they are from GM, they say GMC. Can you say Commercial, General Motors Commercial, GMC... CO- MERRR- SHALLL!

 

Don't go by what you see on buick/pontiac dealer lots... They just want a Chevy Suburban and Silverado that they can sell, and not be left out of that former gravy train. So they stuck the GMC logo on those, too. Most of GMC branch business is BUSINESS, not retail light truck sales to private citizens.

Can you say CALM DOWN

[Jerboa113]

Alright, as a commercial line GMC is useful, I can definitely see your point on that, but I do really hope they decide to do away with their pedestrian line.

 

I'd prefer not.. the new silverado is FUGLY.. the new sierra looks much better.

[ehsnils]

Merger? Between Chevy and GMC?

 

They are the same company already. The only thing different are the sales channels, and slight marketing considerations. They are already designed and built under the same GM umbrella, by GM engineers. If they switch their GMC commercial line over to Chevy, they have to pay franchises and sales and service channels to change over all of their branding, and all new materials, and everything to now say Chevy, rather than GMC. A meaningless change that COSTS money for no real reason.

 

It may be meaningful if they do it at the time when a new model is going to be released. In which case the cost won't be much different. Which way they go - call Chevy trucks GMC or the other way around doesn't matter. But in the long run it costs to have parallel brands and channels.

 

Saab and Volvo may be coming home to you swedes, or somewhere else, because they both are on the block now. The big three are telling them "you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here."

 

Saab is starting to be one more Opel variation, and the value starts to be present only in the brand and not in the product. There is already an Opel variant - Vauxhall which essentially is an Opel for the UK market. And it won't be long before Saab goes the same way.

[franklin]

Ford has survived calling all of its trucks Fords. I dont think the world would end if GM rebadged all of its trucks either GMC or Chevy. It does seem to be blowing money they dont have anymore to have both badges.

[fj1200]

Ford has survived calling all of its trucks Fords. I dont think the world would end if GM rebadged all of its trucks either GMC or Chevy. It does seem to be blowing money they dont have anymore to have both badges.

 

But GM has developed GMC, as IwSS has pointed out, as a commercial line, if there is true product differentiation between the two then the cost savings would be insignificant. Especially looking at the cost of unwinding GMC as its own line in dealer elimination, customer alienation, etc.

 

GM wastes to much effort in copying products over their lines, the GM Torrent, the Pontiac Whatever, and the Buick Somethingorother are wasteful, at least domestically. They could easily leverage Pontiac into another focus line like Infiniti, Lexus, Acura (don't yet)... if they truly differentiate the mix (all RWD for example) and don't encroach on Cadillac.

 

That's why the talk of merging Chrysler into GM is counterproductive, they would be bringing in another company that either become rebadged GM products or they don't experience the cost savings that GM needs to gain.

[Jerboa113]

Ford has survived calling all of its trucks Fords. I dont think the world would end if GM rebadged all of its trucks either GMC or Chevy. It does seem to be blowing money they dont have anymore to have both badges.

 

dont forget the current lincoln truck. I know its a drop in the hat but.. I'm just sayin..

 

and the mazda B series pickup.

 

its nowhere near as widesrpead as GM's but they do it a little too.

[05GT Guru]

for the msot part ford is the only comapny with trucks, but the ford SUVs now thats a diff story. Ford, mercury and lincoln SUVs were all built on the same platforms, just slightly different looks and options.

[25gtrbo]

dont forget hummer.

[05GT Guru]

Yeah but hummer is different, we were talking about companys who have the same trucks but just put a different badge on them. Like the chevy silverado vs the GMC sierra- its the same truck mechanically. The hummer is all buy itsself in that dept.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Actually the H2 is a Yukon or the short version of the Suburban, with a new body on it, and some different options. It isn't just a grille change, but the engineering underneath is the same.

 

the H3/H3T is the Trailblazer/Colorado spiffed up. I actually like the H3T, but not for $40k to get a useful V8 and some decent options. Not when used Avalanches, or Explorer SportTracs, or even a Subaru Baja, if the duty requirement is light enough for the Subaru to handle... are all available used, for HUGE discounts.

 

a more rational H2, the H3, and the HX production model as H4 (wrangler-type vehicle) would actually be a decent lineup, if the prices were to come back down to earth. Even better if it were to get some diesel options.

[Jerboa113]

iirc the h2 has a 3/4 ton rear axle tho. and a 1/2 ton front.

[PiKap335]

Saab will go. Buick will stick around:

 

China could save a tarnished GM brand

[crazyjay1089]

GM needs your help, according to its most recent letter slated to be published in trade publications: http://gmfactsandfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/congress-an-final-120408.pdf

 

Call me crazy, but i think they seem a little desperate.