Which GM Brand Will Go?

[fzanetti]

Intersting read about Saturn.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/id/192458

 

Very cool article SLEgacy99....

 

I am really sad to see Saturn go... I do think it's one of their best brands, most of their cars are rebranded Opels which sell a lot in Europe, all having great quality, fit & finish... But our market is just not ready to buy them...

 

it would make much more sense to decommission Saturn and create a new brand called Opel here and start a whole new marketing campaign, market research, etc etc etc....

 

http://www.saturnfans.com/Cars/Future/opelsaturncollaboration.shtml

 

 

Flavio Zanetti

Boston, MA

[SLegacy99]

Its interesting because GM eliminated Geo before giving it a chance. Now small cars are thriving and the Chevy Aveo is a joke.

[Tommyh]

Typical of GM.

[Jerboa113]

small cars are thriving?

 

well maybe the corolla and whatnot are doing well but..I'd say the metro was sub small car. its in the "golf car" class of vehicle.

 

Have you all seen the segway/GM 35mph wheelchair? yea.. right.. I'm REALLY gonna rush out and buy one of those..

[fishbone]

I definitely like the PR spin they put on their recent commercials:

... with a warranty backed by GM. And the federal government

Bwehehehe.

[ehsnils]

Very cool article SLEgacy99....

 

I am really sad to see Saturn go... I do think it's one of their best brands, most of their cars are rebranded Opels which sell a lot in Europe, all having great quality, fit & finish... But our market is just not ready to buy them...

 

it would make much more sense to decommission Saturn and create a new brand called Opel here and start a whole new marketing campaign, market research, etc etc etc....

 

http://www.saturnfans.com/Cars/Future/opelsaturncollaboration.shtml

 

 

Flavio Zanetti

Boston, MA

 

I think that's essentially the fault of GM - they have the same model but with too many brand names so people won't have a clue and don't think that the Top Gear conclusion of the "Badger" also applies to the local "Digger". (Replace "Badger" and "Digger" with your favorite names)

 

Opel is also named Vauxall and I think that there may be some matches when it comes to Holden (but I'm not sure). At least Holden has heritage from 60's and 70's Opel.

 

So what did happen was that there have been a complete waste of marketing opportunities.

[Jerboa113]

They've spent the last 20 years or so competing with themselves rather than making 1 good small sedan, 1 good medium sedan.. they made 4 ok small sedans..

 

It didn't used to be this way.. back int he 50s-70s these cars shared very little by comparison today. They had their own powerplants sheet metal and looks.. borrowing only common items like the rearends and things like that.

 

In the late 60s it seems is when they really started this..although the firebird had its own pontiac engine it was still a camaro with a different front and rear fascia.

[SLegacy99]

small cars are thriving?

 

well maybe the corolla and whatnot are doing well but..I'd say the metro was sub small car. its in the "golf car" class of vehicle.

 

Have you all seen the segway/GM 35mph wheelchair? yea.. right.. I'm REALLY gonna rush out and buy one of those..

 

Well just, look at the Aveo compared to the Fit, Yaris, or coming Fiesta. It's crappy. Perhaps the Cruze will do it for them. And then we'll see a Pontiac version and a Saturn version. And the redundancy will once again collapse in on itself.

[Jerboa113]

I very rarely see a fit or a yaris (thank god) but you make a good point.

 

and I agree with you.. they'll wind up competing with themselves again

 

Who came up with that idea anyway?

[Tommyh]

...and a Saturn version...

 

No, Saturn will be gone by then; Buick and Cadillac on the other hand will still be around...

[SLegacy99]

I very rarely see a fit or a yaris (thank god) but you make a good point.

 

 

Really? I see them all the time. ...but then I live in a crowded college town.

 

Grad students drive the Fit/Yaris

Undergrads: 3 series (what am i doing wrong here?)

Professors: hybrids

[SLegacy99]

Can a new 280 HP engine save Chrysler?

 

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/chry_pentastar_v6_01.jpg

 

 

 

Quote:

Chrysler has lifted the lid on what it says is the most advanced V6 engine to ever be produced by the company, and one that should help the automaker rein back manufacturing costs.

 

The Pentastar V6 will replace a grand total of seven V6 engines in Chrysler’s engineering stable, a move which will lead to greater manufacturing efficiency and lower costs.

Having the one standard motor shared amongst several models will simplify production lines and reduce tooling costs, both of which will save the struggling automaker a great deal of the folding stuff.

 

The 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee (below) will be the first Chrysler product to be fitted with the new 3.6 litre V6, which will produce 209kW and 353Nm in Jeep trim.

 

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/jeep_grandcherokee_2011_01.jpg

 

Double overhead cams with variable cam timing on the intake and exhaust help widen the powerband, and over 90 percent of torque is available from between 1600 and 6400rpm.

 

Intake and exhaust ports are larger to promote better engine breathing, and the 60 degree angle between cylinder banks gives the Pentastar compact dimensions.

 

The Pentastar’s all-alloy block is both strong and light and the whole unit is designed to run on both ordinary petrol, or the E85 ethanol-petrol blend that’s in wide use in North America.

 

Chrysler has high hopes for this engine, and it is a key part of the company’s move to rationalise its model line-up and cut unnecessary costs.

The Pentastar won’t get Chrysler out of the substantial hole it currently finds itself stuck in, but a larger number of shared components, platforms, parts and engines should help America’s most troubled automaker trim the fa

 

I think GM has it right with the DI 3.0L theyre about to release. These larger 3.5 to 3.0L engines I don't think will be around long. A DI 3.0L in a lighter Camry would be far more efficient than today's 3500 lb. 268 HP 3.5L.

[Jerboa113]

omg that new jeep is so ugly.

 

maybe I'm greedy but considering nissan has 300 something HP out of their mid sized v6 I'd answer the question with a "no."

[SLegacy99]

Yeah, Toyota gets 300 outta there 3.5L, I guess Ford gets close with their 3.7L. ...Subaru however doesn't get very far with their 3.6L. It would be something if it got good gas mileage, but it doesn't.

[Jerboa113]

it really makes me wonder what nissan is doing right.. or what everyone else is doing wrong.

 

You know GM's 5.3L v8 in the new trucks only runs about 315hp.. but they're more geared for tq. They have like 380tq which isn't too bad.

 

and thats on 87 octane. maybe this is the problem?

[SLegacy99]

The GM 5.3L is a joke compared to the Toyota 5.7L. And I like how they boast best in class fuel economy on the Silverado. It beats the Tundra by 1 MPG and sacrifices 70 HP and 20 lb ft.

[Jerboa113]

they offer a 6.2L on their 1/2 ton now. something like 400hp and 415tq.

 

impressive numbers but thats a big motor and probably gets 8mpg.

 

I'd still buy it tho.

[SLegacy99]

GM Said to Study Dropping Pontiac, GMC in Savings Bid (Update2)

 

By Jeff Green and Serena Saitto

 

April 16 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., facing a June 1 U.S.-backed bankruptcy, may drop its Pontiac and GMC brands as part of broader cost-cutting moves, people familiar with the discussions said.

 

GM’s Chevrolet, Cadillac and Buick brands are likely safe, said the people, who asked not to be named because decisions aren’t final. GMC and Pontiac are being studied as part of talks with an Obama administration task force assessing whether GM can be restructured without bankruptcy, the people said.

 

Shedding Pontiac or GMC would mean a deeper bite into GM’s portfolio of eight U.S. brands than in its Feb. 17 blueprint for keeping $13.4 billion in federal loans. GM said then it would keep Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC and retain Pontiac as a niche line while selling or closing Hummer, Saab and Saturn.

 

GMC has a better chance of surviving than Pontiac, one of the people said. GMC sells only light trucks such as the Sierra pickup, while Pontiac’s offerings include the descendants of the brand’s high-performance models from the 1960s and 1970s.

 

Among the decisions yet to be reached is what would happen to Pontiac or GMC should Detroit-based GM opt not to keep them, the people said.

 

President Barack Obama set the June time limit for GM to revamp its survival plan to find more savings from unions, creditors and operations. Chrysler LLC, which borrowed $4 billion, was given a May 1 deadline to reorganize and merge with Italy’s Fiat SpA.

 

‘Aggressively Restructure’

 

“We are continuing to assess our global operations, brand portfolio and nameplates, and will take further actions to more aggressively restructure our business,” Renee Rashid-Merem, a GM spokeswoman, said yesterday. “It’s premature to comment on what those actions could entail.”

 

A Treasury spokeswoman, Jenni Engebretsen, had no comment.

 

The reassessment of GM’s earlier decision to keep Pontiac and the future of all of the brands are among topics in meetings this week between executives of the biggest U.S. automaker and a Treasury team led by adviser Harry J. Wilson, the people said.

 

The number of brands is also part of a discussion on how to speed up the winnowing of GM’s 6,200 dealer locations to 4,100 sites, said one person.

 

GM gained 2 cents to $1.91 at 11:47 a.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The shares have tumbled 90 percent in the past year on concern that the company may collapse after $82 billion in losses since 2004.

 

GM’s 8.375 percent bonds due in July 2033 fell 0.25 cent to 8.3 cents on the dollar, yielding 98 percent, according to Trace, the bond-pricing service of the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority.

 

Bankruptcy Preparation

 

GM has stepped up planning for both a new business model and a potential bankruptcy since March 29, when Obama asked Rick Wagoner to leave as chief executive officer and said he would back a “quick-rinse” bankruptcy to cut debt and other costs.

 

New CEO Fritz Henderson has said that while GM would prefer restructuring without a bankruptcy, Obama’s new demand makes a filing more probable. A GM bankruptcy probably would spur creation of a new company that keeps only the best brands and other assets, people familiar with those plans have said.

 

To avoid bankruptcy, Henderson needs agreements from unions and debt holders for savings beyond GM’s February proposal for slashing $47 billion in unsecured claims by 59 percent. He said last month that GM also may need to eliminate more jobs than the 47,000 set for this year and shut more factories than planned.

 

The review of Pontiac and GMC clouds the future for brands dating to the earliest years of GM, which turned 100 in September.

 

Coupes, Pickups

 

The Pontiac division was created by GM in 1926, and U.S. sales peaked at 896,980 in 1978, according to trade publication Automotive News. GM sold a record 9.55 million autos worldwide that year, which came at the end of an era when Pontiac won notice for sports coupes such as the Firebird. Pontiac’s domestic deliveries fell 25 percent to 267,348 in 2008.

 

GMC’s truck-building history dates to 1902, when brothers Max and Morris Grabowsky sold their first commercial model to a Detroit dry cleaner, according to GM’s Web site. Their Rapid Motor Vehicle Co. was absorbed by GM in 1912, along with two other Detroit-based commercial-vehicle makers, GM said.

 

By 1915, GMC produced the first light-duty vehicle with the basic configuration of a modern pickup, according to the automaker. GMC’s U.S. sales fell 26 percent last year to 376,996, making it GM’s second-largest brand after Chevrolet.

 

Chevrolet and Cadillac are GM’s strongest brands and Buick is popular in China, said the people familiar with the automaker’s discussions.

 

GM said yesterday it has “multiple bidders” for its Saturn dealer network, including a group led by Oklahoma City private-equity firm Black Oak Partners LLC. Potential buyers for Hummer also have signaled interest, Henderson said in March.

 

About a half-dozen serious parties have expressed interest in Trollhaettan, Sweden-based Saab, a person familiar with the negotiations said. Saab filed for protection from creditors on Feb. 20 after GM said it will cut ties by the end of the year.

[Jerboa113]

you know the GMC truck is selling hand over fist to the chevrolet truck because the chevy front end is HIDEOUS right?

 

you know.. I really think if you gave GM an option to get stabbed in the face by a viking sword or eat marshmallows.. they would choose the 1st option.

 

they cant make a correct decision to save their f'n lives.

 

god only knows how they ever got here in the first place.

 

*gives the finger to GM*

[SLegacy99]

I have no desire to buy a GM car. Perhaps a CTS-V if I had the money. Back in the 90s and early 2000s I would never wanted a Ford either or anything to do with them. I actually like their lineup now, though I don't think I'd give up my LGT for one. Not yet anyway, still runnin strong.

[crazyjay1089]

any company looking to buy Saturn is stupid. A merger with other cars in development is the only real option. Otherwise, the Saturn would still be underfunded and rely heavily on GM for powertrains and parts.

[05GT Guru]

it really makes me wonder what nissan is doing right.. or what everyone else is doing wrong.

 

You know GM's 5.3L v8 in the new trucks only runs about 315hp.. but they're more geared for tq. They have like 380tq which isn't too bad.

 

and thats on 87 octane. maybe this is the problem?

 

You do know GM makes a 3.6liter v6 that puts out 306hp right?

[Jerboa113]

no, I didnt. What are they putting it in? Thats actually pretty good.. is that NA?

[SLegacy99]

You do know GM makes a 3.6liter v6 that puts out 306hp right?

Yeah, and yet it doesn't match Lexus.

 

It has the same HP as the GS350, a few less lb. ft. of torque and achieves 18/26 in the CTS vs. the 19/27 that the GS, and I believe the GS hits 60 MPH faster. I give Caddy credit though for actually offering a 6MT in a sports sedan. However, you can't get a MT an AWD together so I'll stick to Subaru, Audi, and BMW.

 

GM's new DI 3.0L puts out 255 HP and 215 Trqs. The current Subaru 3.0L puts out more torque and a few less horses without DI. Come on. What's wrong with these engineers?

[Jerboa113]

doh... forgot about the CTS DI.. where is my brain.

 

slegacy did you factor weight into that mileage tho? I dunno the curb weight on those 2 cars, but if I had to guess the caddy is probably a bit heavier than most cars its size.