New Legacy! "Ready When You Are"

[BernardP]

The first post by charlesb says "COMING SOON".

 

How soon can that be? How soon should we know for sure how the next Legacy will really look?

 

Let's remember that the new Impreza was sprung unto an unsuspecting word only a few days before its official release, thanks to a Motor Trend cover story. And it looked not at all like the renderings seen on the web during the preceding years.

[highgearofyoursoul]

owned! just bought a legacy 2.5i sedan here ina burgh. also just joined tha board, hiyadoin!?

 

will post pics of car very soon

[Neurodancer]

owned! just bought a legacy 2.5i sedan here ina burgh. also just joined tha board, hiyadoin!?

 

will post pics of car very soon

 

LOL -- Welcome to the LGT.com! Here's a helpful link for ya, so you feel the love with your contributions to the site: Linkydink

 

Saw your post in the New Member intros as well...

 

Y'uns live dahntahn inat???

[Amoxi]

Not even close. I'm not allowed to say what it looks like at all, but I can say that isn't it.

[Amoxi]

Can't say lol.

 

All I can say is that I've seen it. Some things I like, some I don't... Beyond that would get me fired.

[Guest heightsgtltd]

I call extreme BS. IF you actually worked for them, you could get fired for even being on here and saying ANYTHING about

[IwannaSportSedan]

man, if a supposed insider is candid enough to say it is a mixed bag, I am afraid an enthusiast might be severely disappointed. If an insider can't spin it entirely positive, I wonder how bad it really is.

 

That based on some of the other subaru decisions that someone else, no doubt, at SOA thinks is a good idea, like killing colors, or body styles on the Legacy.

 

Or the designs of recent Subaru product, like Tribeca, and Impreza, which have been somewhat controversial, to say the least. Forester perhaps less so, but also trying to be less edgy.

 

Yet I doubt an insider would have been candid enough to say "Some things I like, some I don't..." about either of those, even if that were a true sentiment. But maybe I am wrong. Perhaps I am.

 

I am just a bit apprehensive about the next legacy, anyway, because I see so few cars on the market with such core competencies as my Legacy GT has. And it might lose those...

[Amoxi]

I call extreme BS. IF you actually worked for them, you could get fired for even being on here and saying ANYTHING about

 

Well believe what you want, but have I really said anything at all? I'm allowed to say I've seen it without giving out details. I could stand in front of SIA, holding a penny and today's newspaper, all while standing with one leg out to prove you wrong, but I'm not going to cause well... Its silly. If you want to come the Subaru Challenge in August I'd be glad to shake your hand on the spot. I work in the big white building behind the event.

 

man, if a supposed insider is candid enough to say it is a mixed bag, I am afraid an enthusiast might be severely disappointed. If an insider can't spin it entirely positive, I wonder how bad it really is.

 

That based on some of the other subaru decisions that someone else, no doubt, at SOA thinks is a good idea, like killing colors, or body styles on the Legacy.

 

Or the designs of recent Subaru product, like Tribeca, and Impreza, which have been somewhat controversial, to say the least. Forester perhaps less so, but also trying to be less edgy.

 

Yet I doubt an insider would have been candid enough to say "Some things I like, some I don't..." about either of those, even if that were a true sentiment. But maybe I am wrong. Perhaps I am.

 

I am just a bit apprehensive about the next legacy, anyway, because I see so few cars on the market with such core competencies as my Legacy GT has. And it might lose those...

 

I wouldn't read into what I'm saying too deeply. I'm being vague on purpose. The things I like and/or dislike are, in all likelihood, not the same pros and cons you have from a consumer standpoint. I'll leave it up to SOA to "spin" things.

[ih8vtec13]

I dont wanna read the whole thread but it looks like a Camry mated with a WRX at the Subaru plant. Please don't release it i beg you.

[dga]

I am guessing it will not be a 5-door. Conventional trunk is demanded by almost all American consumers and that is why 5-door sedans don't do well here. That is why the upcoming Mazda 6 will be a 4-door sedan here and a 5-door in Europe. We also get a larger Mazda 6 as well. Subaru might do the same with the Legacy.

 

I like what I see from the sketches though. Only way I would trade my '08 Legacy for another car is if the new Legacy came in a turbo diesel wagon with a proper manual transmission.

[MJ in PA]

I'm actually a little disappointed if that's not it. I'm afraid that in actuality, the lights and grille are going to be all funky looking, and not as sleek and well proportioned as either the current Legacy or the sketch here (which does resemble the current Impreza).

 

I hate the industry trend of making headlight assemblies and grilles disproportionately large. I think Audi ruined the A4, which was one of my favorite looking cars, with that stupid waterfall grille or whatever they call it.

[BernardP]

I hate the industry trend of making headlight assemblies and grilles disproportionately large. I think Audi ruined the A4, which was one of my favorite looking cars, with that stupid waterfall grille or whatever they call it.

 

+1

 

Audi calls it the "uniframe" grille

[SWP-LegacyGT]

Can't say lol.

 

All I can say is that I've seen it. Some things I like, some I don't... Beyond that would get me fired.

 

So if you're on the design team or work with SoA at all, then here's what you're saying:

 

- It's not the '05-'07 shell

- It's not the '08-'09 shell

- It IS a new shell for the '10 model year

- It WILL feature some new things that were NOT featured in the previous model years - Some people will like it, some people won't.

- It WILL most likely have different model trim levels akin to previous generation of legacies.

 

Beyond that we're most likely going to have to wait until the Tokyo Auto Saloon show before we actually see any design specs of the new model Legacy.

 

Still, I don't think Subaru knows exactly what to do with the Legacy line now that there is a distinct line in the sand between the Evo X and the STI.

[Amoxi]

So if you're on the design team or work with SoA at all, then here's what you're saying:

 

- It's not the '05-'07 shell

- It's not the '08-'09 shell

- It IS a new shell for the '10 model year

- It WILL feature some new things that were NOT featured in the previous model years - Some people will like it, some people won't.

- It WILL most likely have different model trim levels akin to previous generation of legacies.

 

Beyond that we're most likely going to have to wait until the Tokyo Auto Saloon show before we actually see any design specs of the new model Legacy.

 

Still, I don't think Subaru knows exactly what to do with the Legacy line now that there is a distinct line in the sand between the Evo X and the STI.

 

Whoa...Now you're putting a lot of words in my mouth. I mean a A LOT of words.

[Paisan]

Wow, do you guys live under a rock? It's been fairly well known that the 2010 Legacy will be upsized, in the Audi A6 size range. From what I've heard the following are likely possibilities:

 

Front looks like a G35/37

Rear looks like a GS400

 

Engines:

H6 w/AT (either 5EAT or 6EAT)

H4t w/6MT

H4 w/CVT

 

Weight will be the same as the 05-09

 

NO WAGON in the forseeable future.

 

-mike

[SWP-LegacyGT]

Whoa...Now you're putting a lot of words in my mouth. I mean a A LOT of words.

Yes but from the sounds of it I'm about spot on. I know you're gagged so I'll take that as a "good guess sir" comment.

[BernardP]

Beyond that we're most likely going to have to wait until the Tokyo Auto Saloon show before we actually see any design specs of the new model Legacy.

 

So when is the Tokyo Auto Saloon?

[iyalla]

Subaru certainly doesn't seem to believe in smooth progression of design The only thing that does is their drive trains and the Forester. Everything else is fair game for a complete makeover, screw the pundits. Its ballsy I'll give them that!

 

Personally I think people will love a bigger Legacy sedan. Not so sure about a bigger Outback though. When Toyota made the Highlander bigger sales went down, it could be the same for the Outback. I guess we'll just wait and see. Subaru certainly makes the waiting exciting. Audi slaps on a new grill and smooths out the tailights, tweaks the interior and calls it a day. Subaru throws everything away except the engine/drive train and goes to work

[IwannaSportSedan]

SNIPPAGE: Subaru certainly doesn't seem to believe in smooth progression of design The only thing that does is their drive trains and the Forester. Everything else is fair game for a complete makeover, screw the pundits. Its ballsy I'll give them that!

 

Personally I think people will love a bigger Legacy sedan. I guess we'll just wait and see. Subaru throws everything away except the engine/drive train and goes to work

 

the problem is, that is isn't always for the better. Bigger doesn't necessitate better.

 

I wouldn't mind a bit more rear seat room for passengers, but if the design is toast, then it won't matter, if people don't buy it.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Well believe what you want, but have I really said anything at all? I'm allowed to say I've seen it without giving out details. I could stand in front of SIA, holding a penny and today's newspaper, all while standing with one leg out to prove you wrong, but I'm not going to cause well... Its silly.

 

I wouldn't read into what I'm saying too deeply. I'm being vague on purpose. The things I like and/or dislike are, in all likelihood, not the same pros and cons you have from a consumer standpoint. I'll leave it up to SOA to "spin" things.

 

So you came here to stir the pot, and deny the sketch... and otherwise give us nothing? Gee. Thanks for throwing that particular bone. Beggars can't be choosers, I guess. (we legacy enthusiasts being the beggars for any shred of hard info.)

 

(I know it is your job, and the following is not aimed at you, but at SOA in general. I would never expect or ask you to put your livelyhood at risk.)

 

You would think that perhaps SOA, knowing that there is a small contingent of Legacy die-hards here in this forum, might actually throw us a slight bone, or something substantive about the forthcoming update. Even general specs of the chassis and drivetrain, if the design is that highly coveted to be absolute secret. It is only a model year away now.

 

If ANYONE is going to upgrade from a current to new Legacy, it would be a Legacy owner who already knows about the car. Seemingly, no one else knows about the Legacy, but return Subaru customers, or real enthusiasts.

 

And I dearly hope that Subaru isn't falling prey to the same design degredation that seems to be affecting most of the other cars in it's class.

Accord... getting worse with each new generation.

Camry... ugly, where previous was boring.

TSX, TL, RL... "taking a walk of the styling map" kind of ugly.

G35 still looks kinda good, but has never looked as sleek as the 05-09 Legacy, as a sedan.

Maxima is ugly as sin.

Fusion/Milan aren't up to Legacy GT's performance, style is iffy on Fusion. 6 is good, but getting dumbed down for it's next generation.

Jetta and Passat are the typical VW pudgy design language.

Audi A4 looks good, but expensive and small, with less power from the turbo 4. Maybe the new one is better in the size department.

G8 looks quite good, but perhaps not as refined. (broader lines, no signal mirrors, tail and turn single tail lights, rather than separate, those sort of very fine details)

 

The Legacy is in some ways simultaneously less well equipped than some, and yet the design is very good. The frameless windows, the simple and clean lines, the well-turned details, and the un-exaggerated stance.

 

IF it gets inferior styling, like the details and proportions of the Exiga, Impreza, and Tribeca have, (Forester is less of a design let-down, but there are a couple of odd details) It will be a let down of a very nice little car that unfortunately isn't widely known. That is also an SOA issue, but another topic.

 

---------

 

I just wonder, if an SOA insider is free enough to even talk about the current design with some critical candor...

 

Why do they continue to meld the audio system to the climate control, preventing any aftermarket upgrade?

 

Why is the memory seating only available on the Spec B and 3.0R Limited, not the GT Limited, or 2.5i Limited?

 

Why is NAV either mandatory or unavailable, rather than more widely OPTIONAL? Some want nav on a car (like say a 2.5i limited, or the '06 Legacy Wagon before that got canned, or a GT Limited with a 5-speed stick) that can't get it, and others want a car (like a Spec B) without it, or it's cost. If I could have taken $2K off the price of a Spec B by removing the NAV, it would have made it a more attractive option to me, both in terms of less cost, and less obsolete tech built into the dash in the future.

 

Why does SOA resist HID lighting so much, when SOJ equips imported WRX STIs with HID, or at least has in the past? Why can't it be optional on the Legacy, Outback, and Tribeca?

 

Who, and WHY, did the 08/09 Legacy sedan tail lights get changed from the design that the rest of the world gets, to where the seam in the tail lights do NOT meet the seam in the trunk lid? That is irksome, and should be a no-brainer. The reflector is separate in the pockets of the rear bumper, so it isn't an SAE reflective regulatory issue, and the bulb arrangment (stop/tail, reverse, indicator) is the same. The color and reflector seam is just out of line with the bodywork, for some nutty reason. The fixture area is exactly the same, and the fixtures can be swapped for JDM, which does line up.

 

Why does the '09 Legacy GT Spec B get all the paint colors, save one, from the GT Limited... it went from one, to two, to all but one. is it really that hard to just paint a Spec B Newport Blue, with the Spec B's black interior? I am thankful that it opened up, but it begs the question, why not newport blue? Given the dark hue of ruby red, compared to my favored Garnet red, I would probably choose Newport blue over Ruby Red, since Garnet is gone. I wish I could choose WR Blue, but Newport is nice, especially if it was offset by mostly black trim and interior.

 

Why does the 4-door impreza exist only in the US market, where we also have the Legacy 2.5i for a similar price, and the Legacy is a better car for the same equipment? Why not just promote the Legacy as THE Subaru 4-door sedan, and leave Impreza to be 5-door only, (as it is elsewhere)It is easy to build a product matrix for that. If you want 4-doors->Legacy/GT/3.0R, 5-doors->impreza/WRX/STI, Wagon->Outback (although killing the Legacy wagon was the wrong move, in the opinion of a lot of Legacy owners.), and SUV->Forester or Tribeca, per size preference.

 

And if Subaru wants to sell Legacys, why is it nearly impossible to find one in stock in some areas, especially a GT model? It is a recurring theme that people can't find the cars when they LOOK for them. That doesn't bode well for less enthusiastic customers who buy what catches their eye out of lot stock, and don't SEARCH for a particular car. It can't catch people's eye, if there are no examples to look at, or very few to get a hold of.

 

If SOA employees can't talk about the future, can they talk about the present and recent past? Perhaps not. And don't jeopardize yourself to try. But these are questions that I, and others have had for some time... and I am sure there are questions, as well.

[MJ in PA]

No wagon on the new Legacy? That's lame!

[Paisan]

So you came here to stir the pot, and deny the sketch... and otherwise give us nothing? Gee. Thanks for throwing that particular bone. Beggars can't be choosers, I guess. (we legacy enthusiasts being the beggars for any shred of hard info.)

 

(I know it is your job, and the following is not aimed at you, but at SOA in general. I would never expect or ask you to put your livelyhood at risk.)

 

You would think that perhaps SOA, knowing that there is a small contingent of Legacy die-hards here in this forum, might actually throw us a slight bone, or something substantive about the forthcoming update. Even general specs of the chassis and drivetrain, if the design is that highly coveted to be absolute secret. It is only a model year away now.

 

If ANYONE is going to upgrade from a current to new Legacy, it would be a Legacy owner who already knows about the car. Seemingly, no one else knows about the Legacy, but return Subaru customers, or real enthusiasts.

 

And I dearly hope that Subaru isn't falling prey to the same design degredation that seems to be affecting most of the other cars in it's class.

Accord... getting worse with each new generation.

Camry... ugly, where previous was boring.

TSX, TL, RL... "taking a walk of the styling map" kind of ugly.

G35 still looks kinda good, but has never looked as sleek as the 05-09 Legacy, as a sedan.

Maxima is ugly as sin.

Fusion/Milan aren't up to Legacy GT's performance, style is iffy on Fusion. 6 is good, but getting dumbed down for it's next generation.

Jetta and Passat are the typical VW pudgy design language.

Audi A4 looks good, but expensive and small, with less power from the turbo 4. Maybe the new one is better in the size department.

G8 looks quite good, but perhaps not as refined. (broader lines, no signal mirrors, tail and turn single tail lights, rather than separate, those sort of very fine details)

 

The Legacy is in some ways simultaneously less well equipped than some, and yet the design is very good. The frameless windows, the simple and clean lines, the well-turned details, and the un-exaggerated stance.

 

IF it gets inferior styling, like the details and proportions of the Exiga, Impreza, and Tribeca have, (Forester is less of a design let-down, but there are a couple of odd details) It will be a let down of a very nice little car that unfortunately isn't widely known. That is also an SOA issue, but another topic.

 

---------

 

I just wonder, if an SOA insider is free enough to even talk about the current design with some critical candor...

 

Why do they continue to meld the audio system to the climate control, preventing any aftermarket upgrade?

 

Why is the memory seating only available on the Spec B and 3.0R Limited, not the GT Limited, or 2.5i Limited?

 

Why is NAV either mandatory or unavailable, rather than more widely OPTIONAL? Some want nav on a car (like say a 2.5i limited, or the '06 Legacy Wagon before that got canned, or a GT Limited with a 5-speed stick) that can't get it, and others want a car (like a Spec B) without it, or it's cost. If I could have taken $2K off the price of a Spec B by removing the NAV, it would have made it a more attractive option to me, both in terms of less cost, and less obsolete tech built into the dash in the future.

 

Why does SOA resist HID lighting so much, when SOJ equips imported WRX STIs with HID, or at least has in the past? Why can't it be optional on the Legacy, Outback, and Tribeca?

 

Who, and WHY, did the 08/09 Legacy sedan tail lights get changed from the design that the rest of the world gets, to where the seam in the tail lights do NOT meet the seam in the trunk lid? That is irksome, and should be a no-brainer. The reflector is separate in the pockets of the rear bumper, so it isn't an SAE reflective regulatory issue, and the bulb arrangment (stop/tail, reverse, indicator) is the same. The color and reflector seam is just out of line with the bodywork, for some nutty reason. The fixture area is exactly the same, and the fixtures can be swapped for JDM, which does line up.

 

Why does the '09 Legacy GT Spec B get all the paint colors, save one, from the GT Limited... it went from one, to two, to all but one. is it really that hard to just paint a Spec B Newport Blue, with the Spec B's black interior? I am thankful that it opened up, but it begs the question, why not newport blue? Given the dark hue of ruby red, compared to my favored Garnet red, I would probably choose Newport blue over Ruby Red, since Garnet is gone. I wish I could choose WR Blue, but Newport is nice, especially if it was offset by mostly black trim and interior.

 

Why does the 4-door impreza exist only in the US market, where we also have the Legacy 2.5i for a similar price, and the Legacy is a better car for the same equipment? Why not just promote the Legacy as THE Subaru 4-door sedan, and leave Impreza to be 5-door only, (as it is elsewhere)It is easy to build a product matrix for that. If you want 4-doors->Legacy/GT/3.0R, 5-doors->impreza/WRX/STI, Wagon->Outback (although killing the Legacy wagon was the wrong move, in the opinion of a lot of Legacy owners.), and SUV->Forester or Tribeca, per size preference.

 

And if Subaru wants to sell Legacys, why is it nearly impossible to find one in stock in some areas, especially a GT model? It is a recurring theme that people can't find the cars when they LOOK for them. That doesn't bode well for less enthusiastic customers who buy what catches their eye out of lot stock, and don't SEARCH for a particular car. It can't catch people's eye, if there are no examples to look at, or very few to get a hold of.

 

If SOA employees can't talk about the future, can they talk about the present and recent past? Perhaps not. And don't jeopardize yourself to try. But these are questions that I, and others have had for some time... and I am sure there are questions, as well.

 

A lot of this can be answered by economies of scale. In the auto industry they don't order cars for their owners anymore. What the manufacturers do is do a best guesstimate of what the demand will be and spew out X cars with options 1, 3, 9, 15 and Y cars with options 1, 3, 11, 12 etc. etc.

 

Therefore each additional "option" that is added compounds the permutation of cars they need to guesstimate. If you are GM or Ford or Toyota, you can afford to spew out cars with lots of different options. Unfortunately for Subaru they can't afford to do that. That's why you see navi locked in on certain models, and other options locked down. In addition SOA gets charged handsomely by FHI for each and every item they put in the car, for instance HIDs would be charged to SOA from FHI for a lot of $, a lot more than one would think.

 

-mike

[Paisan]

No wagon on the new Legacy? That's lame!

 

They didn't sell. Not enough people bought them to continue to carry them. Unfortunately Money Talks....

 

-mike

[IwannaSportSedan]

A lot of this can be answered by economies of scale. In the auto industry they don't order cars for their owners anymore. What the manufacturers do is do a best guesstimate of what the demand will be and spew out X cars with options 1, 3, 9, 15 and Y cars with options 1, 3, 11, 12 etc. etc.

 

Therefore each additional "option" that is added compounds the permutation of cars they need to guesstimate. If you are GM or Ford or Toyota, you can afford to spew out cars with lots of different options. Unfortunately for Subaru they can't afford to do that. That's why you see navi locked in on certain models, and other options locked down. In addition SOA gets charged handsomely by FHI for each and every item they put in the car, for instance HIDs would be charged to SOA from FHI for a lot of $, a lot more than one would think.

 

-mike

 

Oh, come on... That bears some truth, but it is also a convenient excuse.

 

Mini offers FAR more configurability for a less expensive car than the Legacy GT and Spec B.

 

Almost EVERY car company offers more configurability.

 

But my questions are very basic, and should be no-brainers even under Subaru's current production scheme.

 

Getting rid of the 4-door impreza/WRX, or not having had it in the first place, and promoting the Legacy 2.5i and GT in it's place actually REDUCES complexity.

 

HIDS are hardly a deal breaker to have as an option, or standard equipment on high-trim, and halogen on lower trim, like WRX STI used to have, compared to Impreza/WRX. It might sound restrictive, but at least people could swap either direction after the sale, if it were at least available.

 

Not painting the Spec B blue, when the GT limited does get Newport Blue makes no sense at all, other than someone didn't open that box on the product planning matrix sheet. It doesn't ADD anything to the manufacturing process, just a color code and model code that can or can't go together. How is this not more than a database restriction that someone actually put in. There is no inherent reason that the GT can, but the GT Spec B cannot be painted Newport Blue, but all 4 or 5 other colors are good to go for both models, finally.

 

The screwed up sedan tail light would have cost less if they had just used the overseas-design fixture toolings. They wouldn't have had to pay an industrial designer to modify the fixture BADLY, and manufacture a different part that doesn't look right.

 

The audio system integration is another piece of ADDED, not subtracted complexity. The legacy 2.5i's stereo system is NOT integrated to it's manual climate controls. It would have been easier to keep them modular, and separate, for the GT and 3.0R models. The JDM and other market Legacies have modular circuitry, and the ACC is separate from the Audio system behind the trim panel. It would have cost LESS to keep it that way.

 

I hardly think that the memory seats that the 3.0R and Spec B now have, would be drastically different to fit to the GT Limited, and the 2.5i limited.

 

NAVIGATION should be a dealer-installable device. what about NAV should be hard to include, or not include? Most other industries have JIT manufacturing, but Subaru somehow can't afford to make NAV optional, and putting off customers by making it either mandatory, or not available, depending on preference, without screwing with the drivetrain and trim-line preference?

 

And dealer stock is basic business, and econ 101. People can't buy products they can't find. IF Subaru can't stock product, they can't afford to do business, and they need to figure out why that is, and fix it directly.

 

I am not asking for Porsche Tecquipment, or bentley's salon configuration, where you can match paint to your eye color, and upholster with ostrich leather... This is BASIC STUFF.

[LegGTLT]

Very well said. It seems that claiming the "economies of scale" as a reason they can't afford to produce certain lines with certain options doesn't hold up as they add more complexity in the wrong places.