Subaru Legacy STI rumored to have 450 hp

[LittleBlueGT]

Can you imagine how a 450 hp legacy would put Subaru on the map?

 

Think of all the automtoive jourmalists falling over themselves to drive it. Think of all the comparison tests in the magazines.

 

I think Subaru might seriously be considering shaking things up a bit, if they could pull it off right, it could be HUGE! A bet that is what the boardroom discussions on this car center on right now.

[rexster]

i would take a turbo 4 cyl over a 6 any day. i would rather have a JDM 2 liter than the usdm 2.5. a 3.5l will just weigh more and throw off the weight distribution.

[Richard B.]

Can you imagine how a 450 hp legacy would put Subaru on the map?

 

Think of all the automtoive jourmalists falling over themselves to drive it. Think of all the comparison tests in the magazines.

 

I think Subaru might seriously be considering shaking things up a bit, if they could pull it off right, it could be HUGE! A bet that is what the boardroom discussions on this car center on right now.

 

no doubt in that.

 

my "issue" is the people here thinking subaru will actually price it at 35k. or they say subaru NEEDS to price it at 35k. no car has 450hp priced at 35k. not even 40k. not even 45k.

 

personally...if they did do it and it is built well...IF i could afford it...that would be great. but i'm not gonna sit here searching the net endlessly for it. technically...why haven't the power lovers add a bigger turbo themselves yet? my opinion...if one can't afford a bigger turbo now, one probably can't afford a 450hp leg sti.

 

IF it did have 450hp i expect a mid 40's tag. it would have to undercut the dinan 335i. if not subaru lost.

[Guest heightsgtltd]

I am extremely skeptical as well, but I would be interested in theory though to agree with Richard, this car would have to cost $40K++. That being said, if depreciation stings at this price range (e.g., for the LGT), imagine how it's going to feel south of $50K

 

One thing that is smart, but was probably not concocted by SOA is that talk of 450hp is spreading around different car forums like VWvortex which creates buzz and interest. This buzz will go bye-bye if nothing actually materializes for the US

[SubLo]

i would take a turbo 4 cyl over a 6 any day. i would rather have a JDM 2 liter than the usdm 2.5. a 3.5l will just weigh more and throw off the weight distribution.

 

No, no and no some more. We're talking turbo 6 not NA 6. You ever driven a GN, Turbo TA, 300zxT, Supra T, or 911T? Can you say Holy Shit?

 

[Richard B.]

 

Even if they just DI the EJ25, or it's rumored replacement engine, and get north of 300hp and torque, and upgrade their H6s for similar power without turbocharging or premium fuel

 

 

all they have to do for 305 hp is throw on the sti bits. DONE!

 

300hp is the new 200 really. a camry, accord, ford/mazda, nissan etc...all have over 250hp and are sooo close to the 300 mark it makes the sti laughable. we have to mod the car ourselves to get with the competition.

 

i would not be surprised if subaru fattens the legacy up to the accord/camry with only 270hp.

 

2010 is still a good ways out.

[Richard B.]

I am extremely skeptical as well, but I would be interested in theory though to agree with Richard, this car would have to cost $40K++. That being said, if depreciation stings at this price range (e.g., for the LGT), imagine how it's going to feel south of $50K

 

One thing that is smart, but was probably not concocted by SOA is that talk of 450hp is spreading around different car forums like VWvortex which creates buzz and interest. This buzz will go bye-bye if nothing actually materializes for the US

 

at 50k...sorry man...450hp or not i will be getting a decently optioned dinan chipped 335xi sedan.

 

i have zero faith in the dealerships for even a service on the legacy. my alignment went out and at 15k or so i got it redone but i suspect a joy ride etc. and they actually said that i could get only one under warranty. i was like wtf? it went out and i don't autox or anything. still isn't as good as new but i will never go back to them incompetent ass holes.

 

accuse me of doing damage all the while i accused them of joyriding my car and they never denied it. in my mind they did worse to the car than i do.

 

point? i'm sure bmw has some horror stories as well but no way is it as common as suaru.

 

you think those techs are gonna be nice to your limited ed. 450 hp ride?

[Guest heightsgtltd]

I agree that at a certain point unless it is really a half-price porsche with 4 doors in the truest sense, there are better options.

 

I have not had any issues with my LGT (knocks on wood) and IMHO Subys are built to last longer than most out there, but to your point, people are willing to put up with assorted creaks and other issues at one price point, but are less tolerant of these at higher points unless the brand is perceived as worthy.

 

Not to say that BMW doesnt have small and large issues, just that they are perceived as so good (due to style, engines, etc.) that people are more forgiving. Subaru has no track record in that price range, and would be held to extremely strict standards or would not be credible.

 

Than again, this discussion is probably moot as the reality of it happening, and coming to the US is slim to none.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Agreed, Richard.

 

I would love to see a TT 450hp H6 on the road, even if I couldn't afford one. But the market forces, and Subaru's position don't necessarily make that feasible, as I said above, and I think I agree with you about.

 

But they sell the Spec B at 35k. What to do, what to do...

 

The Spec B should either have one, or BOTH of two options. An STI-tune 305-310hp turbocharged flat four. The STI base price is the same $35k, and it has DCCD and Brembos, HIDs, etc... that the Spec B does not. It should. If Subaru wanted to do it, they could do it. They could parallel the WRX STI and Legacy GT Spec B, equipment and wise, even if the Legacy has leather and a sunroof, and the STI doesn't.

 

The other option is a near-100hp/liter flat 6. 3 liters -> 300hp. 3.2 liters -> 320hp. 3.6 liters -> 360hp.

 

Even the infiniti G-series is doing better with their VQ v6s... Even if Subaru doesn't meet 100hp/liter, why can't (READ: *won't*) they put a 3.6 liter engine with ~330hp in the Legacy with sport trim, and make a Legacy 3.6 GT Spec B, as an alternative to, or even possibly in leu of the 2.5 GT Spec B...

 

I could really appreciate normally aspirated performance, engine smoothness, and throttle response if it had comparable or better power to the other better 6 cylinders on the market, and properly outfitted in a Legacy.

 

DI, dual AVCS, and SI-drive tuning (having the option for a more aggressive tune on demand, but not hindered by it ALL the time... isn't that the point of SI-drive, anyway?)

 

With a properly geared 6 speed manual, and a 5EAT-Sport shift option, and limited slip diff, and the other features i mentioned... how would that be such a bad car to bring to market?

 

And how would it be much different than a better H6 in the 3.0R Spec B package that the far east and australia get.

 

I think they need to move from crawl, to walk, rather than straight to run.

 

They need to UP what they have, do it right, and bring out some CONCEPTS for more, like a 450hp TT H6. We haven't seen anything remotely like that since B11S, and that was more figment of imagination than anything.

 

You don't just do things like this overnight because you want to. you build up, and give people a taste before you serve the main meal. Give people a reason to sit down at the dinner table with a new chef trying to prove himself in the kitchen, to use an analogy.

[Richard B.]

to add to the hp wars...pontiac and dodge have some massive power while being cheap.

 

the new g8 has 360hp for 30k.

srt charger with 425hp can be had for under 40k.

gto is fairly inexpensive as well. probably the best deal ever when gm had that national friends and family discounts.

 

do i like them? not really into american cars but i respect the power output to dollar ratio.

[SBT]

2010 is still a good ways out.

 

Ah, but the JDM 5th Gen will be out in 2009 followed by the USDM 5th Gen in 2010. We should at least have an idea what the new body style will look like and whether there's even room for an H6-T (or HT-TT) and supporting systems next year.

 

As rare as the Impreza 202 is (at $50K), perhaps there could be a USDM Legacy-based variant in the $45-$50K range. I'd definitely hit it if they made enough, say very limited production 300 or less. Anything less than those numbers and dealers would be raping buyers who would have to pony up the $5-$15K price premium that the dealer would tack on for the price of admission. Then it would be out of the realm of the possible.

SBT

[SubieDriver]

So you're saying you want Subaru to bring the S402 over? Yeah, you and everyone else on here, but this one would be more awesome!

 

Oh, and they're up to S204 with the Impreza. The S202 is so last decade.

[panamajack]

why is this thread still open?

[SBT]

The growing-up boy (and girl)-racers in WRXes have to have something to step into and the LGT (in its current incarnation) doesn't really "get it done", missing the mark on several large specs, i.e., power, handling, and looks (the latter being very subjective IMHO).

 

However, that said, I don't think the stepping-up WRXers, could afford a $45-$50K car out of the door, so don't look for may of them to pony up that kind of coinage. Current LGT owners OTOH, may very well step up (I've got my check book in hand) for an H6-T LGT STI in that price range.

SBT

[axxe]

I have a 2002 WRX I bought new in 1/02. I have been on here a few times looking at my options as my family grows and I need more room. I will buy a Legacy STi wagon no matter what it costs. I considered the Saab Turbo X, but didn't like it as much as my Subaru. I don't care about the gas prices and the mpg. I bought a Subaru to drive a certain way. If it costs me more, I'll deal with it. With that said, bring this car here Subaru - I have another kid on the way and the WRX is way too small!!!!

[VXCL]

nice, i would trade my lgt in for sure. SWP please

[lkjohnson1950]

With the latest STI topping out at 40K with full goody list, 45K for an STI legacy might not seem like that much of a jump anymore.

[SBT]

I have a 2002 WRX I bought new in 1/02. I have been on here a few times looking at my options as my family grows and I need more room. I will buy a Legacy STi wagon no matter what it costs. I considered the Saab Turbo X, but didn't like it as much as my Subaru. I don't care about the gas prices and the mpg. I bought a Subaru to drive a certain way. If it costs me more, I'll deal with it. With that said, bring this car here Subaru - I have another kid on the way and the WRX is way too small!!!!

 

Sounds like you'll need the new 3.7 H6-T Tribeca.

 

Congrats on the newest addition (edition) to/of the family and thanks for keeping it all in the Sube family.

SBT

[edkwon]

How much do you want to bet:

 

1. this won't be avail in the US in that form

 

2. the price point will be so high one (and yet still have the cheap-ish subaru interiors) will end up buying a comparable european sedan for a similar price.

[SBT]

How much do you want to bet:

 

1. this won't be avail in the US in that form

 

2. the price point will be so high one (and yet still have the cheap-ish subaru interiors) will end up buying a comparable european sedan for a similar price.

 

Don't know whether I agree, but my take on the recent Bimmer 3-series, is that the 4th Gen Legacy was easily within striking distance, and possibly even above the level of the latest 3-series interior, so would expect the 5th gen (and the anniversary edition) to be a 1-2 punch to the euro-sport varietals.

 

For an H6-T (or even possibly an H6-TT), that technology won't come cheap, but coupled with all the advancements in Subaru's bullet-proof AWD system, I'm certainly standing at or near, the front of the line for this variant if it does make it here. The 5th gen chassis, due out next year in Japan, will likely signal whether any of this is in the realm of the possible. In the meantime, SOA for your planning purposes - BRING IT in 2010!

[SubieDriver]

I'd love to have that in my Tribeca! Though I'd have to have some suspension and driveline upgrades to handle that.

 

I think I'd rather have it in a Legacy than a Tribeca.

[G.T.Subie]

I agree wife's been meaning to kick me in the nuts anyway:eek:. I guess I give my car more attention than I do her. So when does the rumor say it will be coming to the US? I just would like to know when i need to get my divorce lawyer LOL.

Sounds like my wife

[massdrewski]

"Trading on its rallying heritage, Subaru has also given the Exiga a large bonnet scoop – lifted straight from the Impreza STi – plus a rear spoiler and split twin tailpipes."

 

These silly Auto reporters. They just try to fill up space by referring it to an STi. I guess they have heard of an STi but have yet to see it. The hood looks more like my 98 LGT.

[edkwon]

Don't know whether I agree, but my take on the recent Bimmer 3-series, is that the 4th Gen Legacy was easily within striking distance, and possibly even above the level of the latest 3-series interior, so would expect the 5th gen (and the anniversary edition) to be a 1-2 punch to the euro-sport varietals.

 

sorry, ive driven obviously several current gen legacys, and some current gen 3 series in multiple trims (friends cars, test drives) and while current legacies have a greater semblance of interior quality, its still cheap compared to its european rivals, the comparable 'striking distance' you perceive isnt as close as it seems.

 

plus the driving and chassic dynamics of the current legacies still can't touch the 3 series, either in sedan and coupe form. the legacys drive well, but its not the same.

 

when you weight the whole packages, giving this new legacy a sole advantage of a monstrous hp advantage at the expense of interior quality and driving dynamics, compared to a euro sport sedan of a similar price point doesn't interest me anymore. would have interested me 5-10 years ago where i valued speed and power over other features, but for a daily driver, not anymore. if i want something monstrously fast i'll get a stripped out track car. for a daily driver sports sedan in the $40-50K range, i demand a high level of ergonomic quality and driving a car thats a pleasant place to be in.

[SBT]

^ as I have (reference to the drive comparo) and I do own an E30 325 which is fine in its own right (and probably one of the most nimble 3-series ever made).

 

But, compare a 3..xi (which is only somewhat fair to the 3-series as its not symmetrical AWD) and the comparative gap in handling widens (IMHO) in favor of the LGT. And, the 3xi series utilizes BMW's xDrive system with a separate drive shaft forward to the front differential, and the whole system is dependent upon braking the spinning wheel on both open differentials to provide AWD traction (no LSD), so traction/handling to the LGT.

 

I'll be testing a new 328xi wagon tomorrow (not remotely interested in a sedan) and already know that it will be bog slow and $15-$20K more than my LGT. Since the I6-TT is not available in any wagon variant, I do not expect to be impressed in any category except possibly interior quiet. But for a lot less than the entry-price difference between the the LGT and the xi-W, I can do minor tweaks to sound deadening on the LGT and be even more happy with the LGT.

 

3-series interior plastics, which have been complained about a lot in the reviewer writeups, was what I was referring to in my interior comments above. Seat-wise, and leather surface-wise, I think it's a wash between the two, so that leaves the wood finish which is just meh for me. Aesthetically possibly a bit better for the 3-series, but on the whole, not enough for me to rate it higher. YMMV.

SBT