edkwon Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 ^ as I have (reference to the drive comparo) and I do own an E30 325 which is fine in its own right (and probably one of the most nimble 3-series ever made). But, compare a 3..xi (which is only somewhat fair to the 3-series as its not symmetrical AWD) and the comparative gap in handling widens (IMHO) in favor of the LGT. And, the 3xi series utilizes BMW's xDrive system with a separate drive shaft forward to the front differential, and the whole system is dependent upon braking the spinning wheel on both open differentials to provide AWD traction (no LSD), so traction/handling to the LGT. you live in san diego, why would you even want to buy an AWD vehicle except for maybe the occasional ski road trip in the mountains. I live in LA now and this legacy is prob going to me my last AWD vehicle. Plus i'm tired of changing tires in sets of 4 at a time and i hardly drive into the winter mountains here. Otherwise i find having the AWD pointless at the cost of handling and fuel economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tide Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 thread merged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 you live in san diego, why would you even want to buy an AWD vehicle except for maybe the occasional ski road trip in the mountains. I live in LA now and this legacy is prob going to me my last AWD vehicle. Plus i'm tired of changing tires in sets of 4 at a time and i hardly drive into the winter mountains here. Otherwise i find having the AWD pointless at the cost of handling and fuel economy. Because I'm a die-hard Subaru fanatic and have been since 1973/74 time frame. AWD is all about active safety on the road, dry and wet and especially in the torrential downpours that we get here in SoCal. I hit the mountains every snow and with my active lifestyle, kayaking, camping, backpacking, I can get in to places that I can't get in to with a 2WD (front or rear). I'd really need two vehicles otherwise (with all the extra, associated costs) and who needs that when one fits the need very nicely. And wrt changing out sets of tires 4 at a time, almost every manufacturer today recommends changing out the "set", not just 2, so perhaps that's a moot point. BOT - would really like to see an upgraded Legacy STI with all of the bells and whistles. They'd sell every one they could build. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamajack Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 i would buy a 43k LGTSTI wagon over a BMW 335xi wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamajack Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 or audi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 or audi. yeh man - truedat! SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I would too. Anybody want a Tribeca? I'll need to sell it to get one of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamajack Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 It doesnt need 450hp, but a H6 turbo mildly boosted would be nice. Im going to say 325hp. Right around 335i level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 They could probably get 325hp out of the 3.6 *without* turbocharging. I'd say that would be pretty good, but, considering the competition, not outstanding. I'd much rather have 450, or even 430. My Legacy GT at Stage II was a hair (a very slim hair) faster than the previous M3, so if Subaru wants to keep up, they need to be pushing 400 to meet the new M3. I'd be happy with 400, because I know it would have boatloads more torque than the M3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPower Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 There is no reason as to why Subaru CAN'T produce this, but it is a matter of IF. IF they feel like the brand is recognized/respected enough in the US to warrant that step up. IF they want to keep their performance oriented customers growing out of WRX/STI's and into BMW's. IF they want a halo car that would effectively outshine the Impreza STI and confuse the idea of WRC racing as the halo. This would be negated if a true sports car came out and was used for WRC like a Ford RS200 or Lancia Stratos. In 03, I really hoped that this Legacy would be their way to step up and hit more of the masses which gains that brand recognition/respect. Didn't happen, so maybe in the next round. WRX popularity begat the STI for the U.S. Legacy GT popularity will do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamajack Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 400 hp is reaching. Most people aren't leaving an STi for a new M3. They are going to 335i, 135i, lexus is350. I dont think the LGT needs to have 400hp to compete. It has a proven AWD system, all it needs is 325-350hp and some bells and whistles for the dash strokers. Keep the weight down throw in 6th OD gear and you have yourself a very nice car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Who cares about the hp? As long as it has good potential! Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j255c Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 ^ yeah its not to hard at all to get 400chp out of the 4cyl. 06 TB EVO IX SE stock turbo monster subaru hater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 But is it easy to get that 400chp with low spool rpm, easy driveability, and 100,000 mile+ reliability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j255c Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 depends on how you drive and if your prepared for things to break ... no. 06 TB EVO IX SE stock turbo monster subaru hater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 But is it easy to get that 400chp with low spool rpm, easy driveability, and 100,000 mile+ reliability? Not out of the H4, due to the fact that you're deriving 100 HP from each cylinder. But imminently doable with a reasonably boosted (but built) H6, where the HP loading per cylinder is 33% less. Check this link to Jeff Sponagle's efforts in PacNW here at about 22 psi: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1215617 and PDX Tuning/Jeff Perrin's efforts here at about 16 psi: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=959768 SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I had read the Perrin thread a while ago. The H6 has so much more potential than the H4, especially now that the H6 is 3.6 liters. I wonder if Perrin or Sponaugle plan to build up a 3.6? If I remember correctly, Perrin's final numbers were around 600 hp (and similar torque) for the 3.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 This thread is It will _never_ happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 This thread is It will _never_ happen. Agreed...but it's never too late to hope. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soopah Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Heard about the Aussie's Liberty (Legacy) tuned by STI? Only 260 hp!!! Yeah, so 450 hp seems a lot far-fetched to actually make it to market in NA. http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/10/australia-gets-market-specific-subaru-liberty-gt-tuned-by-sti/ http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/06/au_lib_sti_450_05.jpg This should be our new Spec B. BTW, Canada no longer has a Legacy GT for 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniStiGuy Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 thats 260 on an H4. We are talking H6 here so the h4 is irrelevant. OEM HID's Rx330 Retro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 ... so the h4 is irrelevant. Yeh - sad ain't it... SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soopah Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 thats 260 on an H4. We are talking H6 here so the h4 is irrelevant. I wasn't talking about what the engines can be made to achieve, but rather what Subaru is likely to market. We know the h4 can achieve much higher than 260 hp and 258 tq. So the 'special' Liberty tuned by STI seems fairly tame. This leads me to believe that Subaru would be unlikely to market a 450 hp Legacy, h4 or h6 being irrelevant. I fully expect my Stage 2 08 LGT will exceed the power and torque of the 'tuned by STI' Liberty by a significant margin. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Heard about the Aussie's Liberty (Legacy) tuned by STI? Only 260 hp!!! Yeah, so 450 hp seems a lot far-fetched to actually make it to market in NA. That's 260 on the automatic. The manual gets 280. (or is that Japan only?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTGT Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Not out of the H4, due to the fact that you're deriving 100 HP from each cylinder. But imminently doable with a reasonably boosted (but built) H6, where the HP loading per cylinder is 33% less. Check this link to Jeff Sponagle's efforts in PacNW here at about 22 psi: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1215617 and PDX Tuning/Jeff Perrin's efforts here at about 16 psi: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=959768 SBT Both of those builds are sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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