S4 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I'm just curious as to people's thoughts on this. I know that Subaru aspires to be a major competitor to Europe's luxury brands. While I hope that they don't do this as it would most likely create a rift in the Subaru community, do you think the time will come where they will need to create a new badge to differentiate the "luxury" models from the non? It seems that many car manufacturers have to do this.. (Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, All GMs/Cadillac, VW/Audi). Now, is it the (mis?) perception of the automotive industry that people really cannot distinguish different models of the same make, or is it that people really want the exclusivity of the luxury brand? They don't seem to have to do it in Japan and they survive just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Interesting... the Japanese luxo models are for export only to the USDM, EDM, etc. In the JDM, the cars are all Toyota, Honda, Nissan. So, it would follow that there is a demand for a more "refined" version of the domestic models and that the various markets can sustain the luxo badging. Does Subaru need a premium (read: luxo) badge? Don't think so at this point. It does not seem to fit their long term strategy of building on and improviding market share using their core technologies. Besides, SAAB is by proxy, providing a luxo (sortof) badge for Subaru products. Blasphemy I know but it's one way to look at it. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Personally, I think they would need to do an upscale brand, ala Lexus, Acura, etc. For auto consumers, brand is very important. How often have you heard, "$30k for a Subaru?" on Infiniti boards, etc. You don't hear, "$45k for a rebadged Nissan" as often anymore. Same with Acura. Yes, some people (like us) know, but the majority of the car-buying public don't know that the Lexus ES300 is a gussied-up Toyota Camry, nor do they care. They got "a Lexus." Same holds true for the VW Phaeton. While by all accounts it's a fine luxury car, does the VW brand support a $90k car? I don't think so. They already have Audi to fit that niche. The sales numbers (which I don't have at my fingertips) speak for themselves. So if Subaru really wants to crash the luxury or near-luxury market, they're going to have to tackle a new brand here in the US, just like Acura, Infiniti and Lexus did. It's going to take a significant amount of effort and time if they want to make it work. But for the US, I don't see any other way. The Subaru name and brand -- one that once said "Brat" and "Justy" -- just won't support it. IMHO. (Edit... yes, that's if Subaru wants to do this. Good point about Saab being their luxury conduit, albeit a somewhat indirect one.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanoswrx Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I don't think they need to, Subaru does not have enough cars or the means to make the necessary changes to current models which would require a new name. Personally I try to point out to people everytime that a Lexus is just a toyota and a Acura is just a honda, and a infiniti is just a nissian. Personally if I got a G35, I would take off the badge and put Nissan on the back. Thats just me though, I am not one to care about status symbols and paying extra for a name. If the car is good I will buy it, doesn't matter who makes it. The problem is American's are a bit screwed up in the head and care about this stuff a bit to much, but thats what makes us American's I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4 Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 VAG confuses me, because it seems that they're either competing with themselves: Passat vs. A4, Phaeton vs. A8, Toureg vs. Cayene (to an extent), or trying to appeal to a wider demographic. Anyways, another interesting point is that they've tried to make it clear that they don't intend to compete with the luxo Japanese brands, but rather the European brands. I'm glad that they don't want to be another Toyota, but that puts them in a rather unique situation I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 At this rate they don't intend to compete with anyone Their sales are in the toilet. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4 Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 I think they tried to diversify too fast (although it was over years) and spread themselves too thin. Just my opinion...I hope Subaru takes note because VW was known as a "quirky" manufacturer too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frontrangeSubie Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 NO.....Im still being laughed at for buying a Subaru.......Its not exactly a brand that anyone would think of as luxury, although the Legacy is a step in the right direction (albeit lacking lots of interior features that come standard on many other cars). With this POS looking SUV coming out....and with the BAJA, Subaru isn't exactly clearing the shelves when it comes to sales.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Pimp Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I don't think they need another "badge" either. They just need a few more luxury options available to appease some more discriminating consumers. Like HID, NAV, telescoping steering column, MP3 capability on all audio systems, etc. It would be really cool if they offered Ipod integration and bluetooth - people would be saying I don't care if it's a 30K Subaru - It has kick ass tech features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 just last night, I had a conversation with an avid car enthusiast. It was over whether I should buy a new legacy or buy a bimmer 530i that we had coming off of a lease. I told him a lot abou the subaru. His main argument ended up being...come on man, its a subaru, and thats a bmw, what are you thinking? i don't know, maybe i am blinded:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Oh man-I hope not. I saw a Lexus, I believe it was, that looked really nice. I thought to myself- that might have been a nice alternative if I hadn't gottne this car. But then I found out it started at 50K. Please- it';s a friggin' Toyota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 It really depends on what Subaru wants to do with it's other models. If the strategy is to move their entire fleet upscale, then it wouldn't make sense to sub-brand. However, it does take a lot of time and effort to move brand perceptions even if the products are greatly improved. Sub-branding also costs a lot of money. You need a separate set of distributors, service and sales networks not to mention a completely new advertising campaign. I'm not sure if Subaru has the financial clout of Toyota or Nissan to pull off something like this. This will probably be the main reason why Subaru would not sub-brand. On the other hand, people who are forking over >$30K for a vehicle will start to expect a higher level of service than from buying an economy car. The Volkswagen Phateon, while an extreme example, is a good illustration of where this positioning becomes a problem. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeLoo Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Small and humble is beautiful. Subaru does not need a luxury badge. VW doesn't think it needs one, and on the long run, I think their strategy will work (the Touareg seems to be quite a good seller around here). 2005 Legacy GT Wagon Ltd 5EAT Garnet Red 1999 GTI VR6 Black - sold but not forgotten... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sduford Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 At this rate they don't intend to compete with anyone Their sales are in the toilet. Not true, as far as I know 2004 was another record year. Sylvain www.digitalfotographer.com - Audi Q5 Club - MB-GLK Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sduford Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 If Subaru wanted to come out with cars in the 60K+ range, they would definitely need a new brand. No one would buy a Subaru at that price or believe that it is worth it (look at the Pheaton). Heck, Subaru is not even seen as a quality brand by the majority of people. That is exactly why Toyota started Lexus. They were perfectly capable of producing the best built and quietest cars in the world (as they have done) but the NA market still saw Toyota as a maker of no-nosense affordable cars and wouldn't have bought them. Lexus quickly established itself as a quality brand and it has been at the top of the quality, reliability, and resale value charts from the very first year. Sylvain www.digitalfotographer.com - Audi Q5 Club - MB-GLK Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4 Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 Forgive me for not searching, but what's the price of the B9x going to be like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline9011 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Talking about branding... Singaporeans are very particular about branding as well, not just in US. The Lexus are selling well though we all know that it is basically a Camry. In Singapore, there is a base model on Legacy, with just a normal 2l engine, and a GT version. I am thinking about buying the base Legacy because of budget constraint... Might not have the power but it does look sporty with good build and road handling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sduford Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I think you're selling the Lexus short if you honestly think it is just a Camry. It is based on the same platform, as are the Highlander and Sienna. But go try one, it is a completely different car. The Lexus is light-years ahead of the Camry in terms of comfort, luxury, and most important quietness! Lexus goes much further with soundproofing. The result is a car that looks and feels completely different inside and while driving. A much more refined car. Doesn't matter if you want to call it a Toyota or a Lexus, but it sure isn't just a Camry. Sylvain www.digitalfotographer.com - Audi Q5 Club - MB-GLK Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 man... buying a car in Singapore. You must be one of the rich guys!!! Do u hold the weekend driver's license? The after 8pm license or those shared ones. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LegacyGT330Ci Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 If Subaru wants to start selling 40 and 50 thousand dollar cars I really don't think people are going to buy them in the States if they still have the Subaru badge on them. Most people think of them as the gay/ lesbian or nature freaks cars. Just lately has their brand image been changing, but I still think there is a long way to go if they want to try to sell really upmarket cars under the Subaru badge. '05 Black Legacy GT Wagon 5-spd '02 Topaz/Black 330Ci 5-spd Drift Ryder's School of Rally Arts, coming to an Australia near you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Forgive me for not searching, but what's the price of the B9x going to be like? Haven't seen anything official price-wise from SOA but I would think entry level would start at $34K MSRP/$31K Invoice and a fully loaded model would come in at $39.5K MSRP/37K Invoice. Completely speculating here but based on the upscale OBs this isn't too much above the realm of the possible. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 the luxury brand would be a GM-funded Porsche Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 they already do. it's called a 3.0rrrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdepew Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I think there's still a little while to go before Subaru could establish a luxury brand. They are finally coming into their own as a respected mainstream car manufacturer. When I mentioned to people that I was considering s Subaru over a Acura, BMW, and Audi - I got tons of laughs and weird looks, then after I show them the car and especially after an exhilarating ride, they are like 'HOLY SH*T would never have expected such a nice car!' This new Legacy/Outback and the Tribeca are quickly making a name for Subaru. Heck check out autoblog.com and read the guys take on the Tribeca, he can frequenly be brutal, especially with regards to rebadging, and he overwhelmed by the Tribeca.... I think this is a sign of good things to come. Oh, and the front grill of the Tribeca is growing on me, its much better in Subaru and Auto Show pics than the 'official' pics that got released to AutoWeek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offthacliff Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I love the fact that on two occasions so far, friends of mine were jelous after getting into my LGT lmtd. One owns a 330I and the other an E class benz... I could just see there expressions, they couldn't believe that my interior was nicer and I got a turboxer with AWD for less than 30k!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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