Will Subaru need a "Luxury" Badge?

[agctr]

It could be something that is always brought up, but dont think its really necessary as a lot of other car makers have only one other true brand.

 

Mercedes has AMG

BMW has ///M Sport

AUDI has R and RS

Mitsu has EVO

Toyota has TRD and Lexus

etc etc

Subaru has STi

Adam.

[jdepew]

Mitsu has EVO

Mitsu has RalliArt

[05LegacyGT330Ci]

It could be something that is always brought up, but dont think its really necessary as a lot of other car makers have only one other true brand.

 

Mercedes has AMG

BMW has ///M Sport

AUDI has R and RS

Mitsu has EVO

Toyota has TRD and Lexus

etc etc

Subaru has STi

Adam.

 

 

 

I don't get what you are trying to say here. Are you saying Subaru has another brand or something, we are talking luxury here not sport. All the things you listed are simply in house tuning companies besides Lexus which is the only true car brand.

 

 

Song of Post- Led Zeppelin- Dancing Days

[BoxerGT2.5]

Atleast if they put a luxury line together it may get rid of the butch dykes and attract some hot lipstick lesbians.

[Sands]

Small and humble is beautiful. Subaru does not need a luxury badge. VW doesn't think it needs one, and on the long run, I think their strategy will work (the Touareg seems to be quite a good seller around here).

Actually, VW does have a premium brand - Audi. Although, IMHO, they're bluring the lines a bit too much with the Pheaton and the aborted W8 Passat. The Toureg sits sells to a different demographic then the typical Audi buyer as well. The other thing is has going for it is that it's a brand new platform for VW so it doesn't carry the same bagage as the rest of the VW linup. The Toureg would have done just as well as a badged Audi though.

 

I think it fits reasonably well with the rest of the VW linup and is a natural step from the ex-passat user.

 

Back on topic - I do think that Subaru will need another badge, but I don't think they will get the capital to do it properly. They're not even advertising the current Subaru linup that aggressivly. One of the reasons why we get stupid looks when we go on about Scoobies.

 

As for the STI badge, it's too tied to WRC to mean much to the general public. Until Subaru make a play into motorsports on tarmac (Speed Touring anybody? or GT/GTS at Le Mans?) that image will be difficult to shift.

[IwannaSportSedan]

It could be something that is always brought up, but dont think its really necessary as a lot of other car makers have only one other true brand.

 

Mercedes has AMG

BMW has ///M Sport

AUDI has R and RS

Mitsu has EVO

Toyota has TRD and Lexus

etc etc

Subaru has STi

Adam.

 

Those are divisions, not distinctly different brands.

Ford has SVT, Chrysler/Dodge has SRT, Chevy/Pontiac has their model designations SS, GTP, GXP, etc.

 

Pretty much every brand has a upmarket badge, but an //M car still has the BMW roundel. See what I mean.

 

VAG and other diversified conglomerates are distinct BRANDS. Caddy, Buick, Pontiac, Chevy, GMC, Hummer, Holden, Opel, Vauxhall, and Saturn all use variants of the same products, but a Pontiac Bonneville and a Buick Park avenue are distinct models, even though they are the same basic frame. Same with VW, Audi, Lambo, SEAT, Bugatti, Bentley, etc.

 

Now, Subaru does not need a new brand. It isn't stretching far enough in the price market. As others have said, 45-60k and up, and yes, it would need a new brand with potentially separate dealership networks, etc. Subaru/FHI doesn't have that much capital in the automotive market at the rate that Subarus are selling now. It would require a huge cash outlay, and an even bigger corporate addition/overhaul to support another brand.

 

BTW, Saab is not an expensive Subaru, other than in the individual case of the 92x, and now maybe a suv. The 9^3 and 9^5 have nothing in common with the Legacy or Outback. A subaru luxo brand would largely be upgraded subaru models, and certainly the same subaru philosophy of All-AWD, All the Time, and technical engineering first. The 93 and 95 are basically front wheel drive cars, some with turbos, with an ikea flavor.

 

However, I am a big proponent of Subaru coming up with a premium badging scheme, and they essentially already have, if they just follow through.

Street and performance vehicles have special badging as STi models. The WRX STi is there, the Legacy STi is a matter of development that some surmise is already underway.

 

"soft road" and utility vehicles currently have "LLBean" badging, wich for the OB and Forrester is marketed as a premium line. a little expansion on that might be nice to include the turbocharged OB XT with the LL Bean trim packaging. Another co-branding company, or an in-house moniker (one not related to any other vendor) could be developed as well.

 

The whole thing is about breaking the barrier of "30k for a subaru?" thing. "An STi? Oh, those things are hella-fast. I see..." or "Oh, an LLBean, it's the 'designer label' version, like an Explorer Eddie Bauer."

 

With premium badging, marketing can promote them as Subarus, as well as being nice cars. Something Lance Armstrong has been on TV touting for a while now.

 

Subaru needs to start buying the US auto press people lap dances or something, so they don't get so panned over, and dismissed. Either that, or a Legacy STi had better come out that can beat the pants off of anything shy of $55k, and make the press take notice.

[Sands]

mmmmm. At least 325hp/325ft-lbs., WRX STI driveline with six speed (sequential box?). Leather/alcantera seats, nav, premium audio, no more then 3300 lbs, HUD, alcantera headliner, 255 tires all around, body kit, Brembos, what else? Did I say 325 hp?

[Xenonk]

Sorry, but no seq. box for me (does skipping gears scare people or something?) or have a 6-speed auto tranny for the clutch-alternative. The car must have a 3.6 litre H6 twin turbo or something. I could care less about the actual peak hp and peak torque, but it's gotta have the flat power curve. No point of having a power curve like a small displacement Honda or a Mazda Rotary engine would put out. If it can make 400whp, so be it, but it's gotta have 18x10 rims with some 285/35/18 summer tires and a suspension system to die for.. also shorten up the steering ratio to make it feel "telepathic". If it's going to be the Luxury name brand, might as well throw out the $30,000 price range and look at the $75,000 to $90,000 price tag.

 

Keefe

[Xenonk]

since I already run 255 wide on my GT now, it's gotta have a suspension system to die for. Get some 6-pot Endless 15" brakes under there and some 14" brakes. The entire active suspension system should be all aluminum.

 

Keefe

[Sands]

buzz killer

 

 

I like sequential boxes on a track, they are a lot of fun and faster then a manual, even if a well executing heal-toe 4-3-2 change is very satisfying on a manual box.

 

A turboed H6 3.0 liter would be cool

[IwannaSportSedan]

mmmmm. At least 325hp/325ft-lbs., WRX STI driveline with six speed (sequential box?). Leather/alcantera seats, nav, premium audio, no more then 3300 lbs, HUD, alcantera headliner, 255 tires all around, body kit, Brembos, what else? Did I say 325 hp?

 

I assume you are speaking to the Legacy STi premium trimming...

 

I was thinking twin turbo 3.0 H-6. 375-400hp and torque. STi 6mt (H-pattern is fine with me.) with the correct gearing and a good set of helical or viscous limited slip diffs.

 

Smooth and taut-handling suspension, a degree more capable than the LGT, and nearly as smooth (has to be a bit of a trade off...)

 

Everything else you mention sounds really good. Body kit could be limited to a SpecB or better yet, a Blitzen style front bumper, and the fender flares from the Outback to cover those 255/40-18 tires. A nice little lip spoiler like the S40 Evolve concept car, or 300C SRT8. Both have nicely modest lip spoilers, that integrate well witht the trunk lids.

 

Alcantara like the Blitzen, or WR Limited and WRX STi would be nice on the seats. (Red or blue keyed to paint, respectively.) Headliner I could take or leave in black or grey cloth or Alcantara. as long as there is enough light from the dome lights.

 

Nav and HIDs should be optional, Premium audio standard, and for pete's sake an aux input for Satelite or MP3 input, at least that, if one can't put a new head unit in there.

 

I like your HUD idea. I have no idea why those haven't caught on more than they have. It seems like such a good idea.

 

Keefe's killer aluminum suspension could lighten up just enough to offset the interior options weight, and allow the suspension to work well, to boot.

 

Please subaru, offer it in WR Blue Mica, Chrystal Grey, and either San Remo or Solid Red!

 

BTW, sands, where are you in IOWA? I am in the Ames area.

[Xenonk]

buzz killer

 

 

I like sequential boxes on a track, they are a lot of fun and faster then a manual, even if a well executing heal-toe 4-3-2 change is very satisfying on a manual box.

 

A turboed H6 3.0 liter would be cool

 

gotta have a twin turbo under there for each bank.

 

I personally started to do 4-2 down shifts and 5-3-2 downshifts.. it's just something about the total smoothness of matching the rpms that gets the racer's blood pumping. Another cool thing about having a clutch is definitely cool would be precision driving techniques that would be easier to do. The car must have a quiet/non-chattering 6 or 8-puck dual-plate clutch to show everyone what a 4 wheel drive burn out really looks like. If you can light up a full set of 285/35/18s without having the car moving forward in a burn out is incredibly crazy.

 

Sorry, but I have to say, traction control should not be controlled by throttle input, I rather heat up the brakes than to have that bogging feeling.

 

 

HUD takes away from the overall clean view for the driver. Granted that it's cool, but it's not something you would want when you have HIDs projecting so much light and the HUD isnt reflecting enough of it on the windshield. Besides, if you want the HUD to show up a lot of info, then what's the point of having the typical gauge cluster?

 

HIDs should be a standard if someone was to pay anything about $60,000 nowadays (but ask Porsche about that, since I dont think all their cars come with it, I think it's still an option).

 

Keefe

[Sands]

IwannaSportSedan - Ankeny.

 

I'm hanging out, learning about the '05s for a potential purchase this spring/summer. I must say that it's my wife that wants me to get the Legacy GT rather then the STI. I used to own a '96 Legacy L. Good car, but got beat to hell in a few too many Erie PA. winters.

 

Right now I'm in a '99 BMW 540 manual. Suprising capable on a track for a larger car. But then it has urethane bits and a Bilstein/H&R suspension and puts down 290HP and has amazing corner balance and road feal. If you see a dropped, black 540, carving through the on/off ramps around I-35/I-80, that's me. I must say that there are some fun ones up around Ames on I-35. (not much in the way of back country roads around here, most look like the Romans layed them)

 

BTW, if you want to do some track schools, the BMWCCA is very active in this area. www.bmwia.org for a calender.

[D-2.5-GT]

HID's have thier downfalls as well though

[05LegacyGT330Ci]

Yes like I have to see all the ugly faces of drivers as I pass them.

 

 

 

 

Song of Post- Bob Marley- Forever Lovin Jah

[Sands]

I showed the press releases of the new Subaru softroader to my wife, she loves the way it looks as I suspected. for whatever reason, women seam to love that look. Same with the Nissan Murano and the new BMW 5 series styling.

[fan42025]

That's what I'm hoping to see in the next gen STi. However, I have a feeling there's insufficient room under the bonnet to turbo a H6 3.0. Hope I'm wrong as it would make a devilish fast car otherwise. SMG would be almost essential too to allow those too lazy like me to use a manual anymore, and an auto can't handle the power.

 

I'm hoping all this come to fruition in say 3-4 years, which is when it's time to upgrade. But by then they might have a new model/shape to accomodate a bigger engine and a turbo - who knows.

 

buzz killer

I like sequential boxes on a track, they are a lot of fun and faster then a manual, even if a well executing heal-toe 4-3-2 change is very satisfying on a manual box.

 

A turboed H6 3.0 liter would be cool

[RobCatron]

NO.....Im still being laughed at for buying a Subaru.......Its not exactly a brand that anyone would think of as luxury, although the Legacy is a step in the right direction (albeit lacking lots of interior features that come standard on many other cars).

 

With this POS looking SUV coming out....and with the BAJA, Subaru isn't exactly clearing the shelves when it comes to sales....

Me too. I tell people, "Hey I got a new 2005 Subaru Legacy GT" -- I had a 2000 SAAB 9-5. The immediately say, "but you had a SAAB" and I have to show them the car, then their like, "ok, not bad, but still, it's a Subaru". Me, though, I've always like the under dog or cars that were a little rarer (my first car being 1982 Buick Skylark T-type, then a 1990 new Skylark Gran Sport - don't laugh, these were cool cars in their time, SAAB Viggen, SAAB 9-5, and now LGT)

 

Rob

[RobCatron]

I think there's still a little while to go before Subaru could establish a luxury brand. They are finally coming into their own as a respected mainstream car manufacturer. When I mentioned to people that I was considering s Subaru over a Acura, BMW, and Audi - I got tons of laughs and weird looks, then after I show them the car and especially after an exhilarating ride, they are like 'HOLY SH*T would never have expected such a nice car!'

This new Legacy/Outback and the Tribeca are quickly making a name for Subaru.

 

Heck check out autoblog.com and read the guys take on the Tribeca, he can frequenly be brutal, especially with regards to rebadging, and he overwhelmed by the Tribeca.... I think this is a sign of good things to come.

 

Oh, and the front grill of the Tribeca is growing on me, its much better in Subaru and Auto Show pics than the 'official' pics that got released to AutoWeek

One thing about the current situation Subaru is in -- they have to be very conservative concerning sales number increases on Legacy Platform vehicles (Legacy, OB, B9 Tribeca) -- they just do not have the capacity. So, it's a balancing act between supply and demand. The Subaru Plant in Indiana, even though production of the Isuzu Rodeo and Axiom have left, just does not have the short term capacity for large production.

 

Basically, if the LGT cost $25K retail now, they could not build enough of them.

 

Subaru has cut a niche in the market for dependable all wheel drive vehicles. I am curious as to see how (and even if) they expand on this image to try to appeal to a broader audience, and if they create the Production capacity in the US to support this move.

 

Rob

[Xenonk]

That's what I'm hoping to see in the next gen STi. However, I have a feeling there's insufficient room under the bonnet to turbo a H6 3.0. Hope I'm wrong as it would make a devilish fast car otherwise. SMG would be almost essential too to allow those too lazy like me to use a manual anymore, and an auto can't handle the power.

 

I'm hoping all this come to fruition in say 3-4 years, which is when it's time to upgrade. But by then they might have a new model/shape to accomodate a bigger engine and a turbo - who knows.

 

There's room, just gotta re-engineer and move a few things around. As for the auto-tranny, Funny Drag cars use autos (which can handle upwards of 2,000 hp, so I dont think that's an issue of an auto-tranny not be able to handle the power).

 

Subaru did have a concept of a 3.0H Twin Turbo that was quoted to perform at 400 hp and about 400 lbs.ft. I am just waiting for them to put it in one of their production cars.

 

Keefe

[DeepFreeze2]

Sigh. I guess that's why the aftermarket lives on. Manufacturers rarely have a car that appeals to everybody. If its all speed, you left this group of people out. If its too "quishy" you left that group out. At the end of the day, they just want to sell cars. So they take a "middle of the road approach", since most people mods their cars anyway (even if its no more than the stereo), they make it good enough to get by, and to hopefully be dependable over the long haul. Then people like us come along an mod the poo-poo out of our cars and that changes the whole scope of things on several fronts. Will we ever be happy? Nope, probably not. But the journey sure is fun!

[fan42025]

That's interesting. I was told the reason say the Lamborghinis don't come with auto but with manual or SMG is because there's no auto that can handle the power output of those beats. Goes to show you can't believe everything you read from a vendor.

 

There's room, just gotta re-engineer and move a few things around. As for the auto-tranny, Funny Drag cars use autos (which can handle upwards of 2,000 hp, so I dont think that's an issue of an auto-tranny not be able to handle the power).

 

Subaru did have a concept of a 3.0H Twin Turbo that was quoted to perform at 400 hp and about 400 lbs.ft. I am just waiting for them to put it in one of their production cars.

 

Keefe

[2Simpletons]

Subaru better fix some of their friggin' rattles before they attempt to attack Lexus, BMW, AUDI and Infiniti. This is my 5th Suby and everyone's been a quirky rattle trap. Hardly worthy of a luxury title. I wouldn't buy any other brand though!

[sduford]

oohhh, you're gonna get it now. How dare you say that about a Subaru!

 

:D:D