LGT or Mazdaspeed6?

[dmp]

^ Double wishbone and multilink suspension sound pretty nice too.

 

My buddy is trying to decide between a CTS-V and an RX8. No joke.

 

Funny - I was deciding between a CTS-V and a Legacy GT.

 

 

Aha! Now I understand why you got so excited about my Mazda/Ford comment! Sorry - didn't realise. But what brings you to a Subaru forum? I mean besides the obvious thrill of arguing with people who have no regard for grammar, punctuation, and complete sentences. Back to the RX8 - for the record, I think it's a sweet car, but not quite the gorgeous work of art the last RX7 was. I have heard the rotary engines can be temperamental, though. Is that true?

 

here's my story:

 

The reason I'm here - my story:

 

My wife and I are planning to try for another child - our 3rd. As our 'family car' - we have her F150 SuperCrew 4x4. My rx8 seats our current 4-some quite nicely, for those times when we don't want to take the truck, or if something happened and we 'couldn't' drive the truck. So - I started thinking I'd trade in my RX8 for a car which could hold all 5 of us, if need/desire be. I was shopping S4s pretty intensely when it occurred to me I could KEEP my RX8 and take the $20K, or so, I'd have to add to the trade-in value of my mazda, and just look for a LegacyGT. I'd have AWD, AND lots of headroom for mods. The RX8, which I dearly love - no other car I've driven has such good steering! - would be my 'fun' or 'date' or 'whatever' car, and I'd commute in the Subaru.

 

Another benefit - as my wife got more and more preg, a Legacy would be easier to get her then-big body in and out of, compared to her high-ish truck, and my low-ish RX8.

 

My car's engine (I'm on my 2nd...first was replaced under warranty) isn't temperamental so much as 'moody'. It hates hot weather - because it runs hot anyway...feels like it suffers 'heat stroke' sometimes. But it's reliable and fun. And when it's "on" it's really REALLY perfect-feeling. I'm a fan.

 

05GT Guru, absolutely no disrespect intended, but I get the distinct feeling you lack a certain dose of perspective. Either that or the misunderstandings are due to talking on a forum, which is a very impersonal way of discussing such topics. IE, you can read between the lines the wrong way or interpret things out of context.

 

 

For the record, I hope Guru isn't getting pissed off - I'm ragging him a bit, but I hope he's thick skinned and he's not feeling like I'm simply trying to flame him and junk and stuff, or whatever.

 

[Hops]

I don't feel like reading this whole thread and I'm sure a lot of people have said the same thing, but here goes anyways:

 

I love the MazdaSpeed6. I just hate Mazda. The car might have a little more power, but it is heavier than the Legacy. The Legacy is actually a little faster.

 

A good friend of mine has a Speed6 and she's had a lot of problems with it. The dealership recently voided her warranty because of a short ram intake! How ridiculous is that? It's not just one dealership that is like this, either.

 

Subaru has let me get away with a lot of mods and free warranty work. Not to mention the parts that are out for them. The Speed6 has an intake available right now. That's it.

 

Also, her turbo had blown by about 25k miles. She does drive it like shit, but still. I know a lot of Subaru guys that drive their cars like shit and their cars are holding up fine way past 40k.

 

So... Since the dealership voided her warranty, I decided to replace her turbo myself. What a pain in the ass!!! This was the most ridiculous turbo swap I have ever done without having to remove the engine.

 

Plus, you're in Australia! You get the Libery STi, right? Lucky ass!

[05GT Guru]

I dont take offense to anything people on the internet say. I know your rx8 could outhandle my T/A i did have some suspension mods as well, but my car was setup for straight line racing and in a straight line your rx8 would be about 15 cars behind before 100mph, so you would win at what you use your car for and i would win with mine was for.

[Whitestar Pilot]

Your grammar and punctuation are weak. RX8's are fine.

 

My car makes about 145lbs-ft at the rear wheels. But with the 4.444 gearing, the car scoots along FINE.

 

It's a MOMENTUM car - do you understand what that means? It's designed to enable a good or decent driver to handle a road without having to slow down.

 

Now that we know the car's purpose, I'm sure you'll see why the RX8, with a good/decent driver, on the right course could wreak HAVOC upon higher-hp cars. Know what I mean? Are you getting any of this, or am I pissing in the wind?

 

I'd bet you $500 my RX8 could out-accelerate your T/A in the right test.

 

 

 

Oh my God.

 

Considering the 8 is a pale shadow of the R-7, I don't care what it was designed for. I like Mazda. Owned a Turbo II in college.

 

My wife drives a Mazda 6. I like the Mazdaspeed 6.

 

But the 8 is crapt.

[IwannaSportSedan]

RX8 is a novel idea, with a couple of execution drawbacks, in styling, practicality, and torque. It is certainly a handling car, and can handle high corner speeds. but torque is somewhat necessary for driveability day to day, not just on a road course at speed.

 

The FD-3S RX7 was an iconic car, no doubt, and the RX8 doesn't hit that mark, not even on looks.

 

I think Mazda needs to re-invent the RX8, into a car that has received an oxymoronic tag of "4-door coupe".

 

a sleek four door sport sedan, with a rear hatchback, and fold down rear seats, and a sleek profile. four seats with a central tunnel is fine, and RWD. I would make it a split lineup, with both a rotary engine option, and an MX-series piston engine option, like the "ecoBoost" twin turbo V6. That would be a motivator.

 

Then, I think they should go coupe with the RX/MX 9, on the RX/Miata chassis, at a size directly between the sport sedan 8, and the 2-seat Miata.

 

Styled like the Kabura, but perhaps a couple of inches longer, 3+1 seating, fastback hatch, and a single, passenger side 180-degree opening free-style door. Rotary and piston engine options, also. maybe rotary, turbo 2.3, and twin turbo V6 MazdaSpeed halo model.

[Whitestar Pilot]

I think they should can the RX-8, and bring back the 7.

 

I suspect Mazda lost money on warrantied engine replacements with the last generation twin turbo RX-7, but if they put updated fuel-cut out limits, or some type of electronic wastegate limiter in there to derail tuners, it would hopefully solve that problem, and then they could bring back a rotary motor with some balls.

 

But screw the 8. I hate its looks as well as its lack of muscle.

[dmp]

I think they should can the RX-8, and bring back the 7.

 

I suspect Mazda lost money on warrantied engine replacements with the last generation twin turbo RX-7, but if they put updated fuel-cut out limits, or some type of electronic wastegate limiter in there to derail tuners, it would hopefully solve that problem, and then they could bring back a rotary motor with some balls.

 

But screw the 8. I hate its looks as well as its lack of muscle.

 

Do you know 7psi on an RX8 puts out MORE power than that psi on the FD? You're welcome to hate it's looks - but it's plain silly to complain about 'lack of muscle' when, on most tracks I know of, a stock RX8 would obliterate a stock LGT.

 

[dmp]

...unless it's raining.

 

[Hops]

Where did this conversation come from? I love the RX-7, but the RX-8 is nothing compared to a Legacy; and they're ugly... especially the doggy-doors. The RX-8 couldn't compete with a Legacy on dry ground, either. I don't mean to take a stab at your ride of choice, just don't come to a Legacy forum and take a stab at us. I have a lot of friends with Mazdas here, many of them have the RX-8 and we have raced on a couple different tracks out here.

[Hops]

Wow

[dmp]

Where did this conversation come from? I love the RX-7, but the RX-8 is nothing compared to a Legacy; and they're ugly... especially the doggy-doors. The RX-8 couldn't compete with a Legacy on dry ground, either. I don't mean to take a stab at your ride of choice, just don't come to a Legacy forum and take a stab at us. I have a lot of friends with Mazdas here, many of them have the RX-8 and we have raced on a couple different tracks out here.

 

Take a stab at 'us'? At you? It's just a reality. Are you that much of a fanboi of your car of choice you can't handle facing it's limitations? If this were a Honda Elite Scooter forum, would people get upset, and take it as a personal 'stab' if I brought up how my Kawi 636cc sport bike would trounce it on the track?

 

You're not seriously going to argue the Legacy would be in the same class as a RX8 would you? They are two different machines; purposed differently.

 

Was Chenc "Taking a stab" at "you" when he commented here:

 

Plain and simple, you will hate the handling in the LGT. As you have implied it's not a sports car and it’s not mean to be one. I came over from the Celica GT-S, and I hated the handling of LGT when I first got it. The Celi is not in the same league as the sports cars you listed but a pretty good handling car in its own right. I also have a twin turbo Z32 as a track car with coilovers and other aftermarket suspension bits. It’s on the other end of the spectrum, but there is no way I would want to live with the Z on day to day basis. As the result I came to appreciate the LGT for what it is. In stock form it’s an entry level luxury sports sedan and with coilovers and other bits you certainly could make it handle as well as your RX-8. With that said, I think you should look into STI and Evo too. Those 2 are much more on the sports side of things in stock form but you do give up some amenities of LGT.

 

BTW, I used to have a FC RX-7 and I gave up on the RX after the second apex seal went.

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1256561#post1256561

 

What about the other guys in that thread? Do their words hurt your feelings?

 

THANKFULLY this board has some reasonable, rational people who aren't fans of their car simply because it's theirs. Thankfully there are people who aren't so blinded by their insecurities they are unable to admit their car of choice isn't the 'best' at anything. Thankfully there are reasonable, mature folk here who can handle their car not being the 'best' at any one thing. Those folk are why I'm here - not to piss around with little farts who may get butt-hurt when faced with the reality their sedan-of-choice is 'not' a sports car.

 

The LGT is a GOOD car. It's a car I'll likely own within months. When I own one it'll probably end up being much faster in a straight line than my RX8. Does that mean it'll ever be a sports car? No way. Does that mean it'll ever turn faster laps? Depends on the track. Even if it was faster in every aspect, the LGT will probably never be as fun to drive because it's simply not nor never will be as nimble, as responsive, or as cool-looking.

 

[05GT Guru]

Well the good-looking is all opinion, i think the Rx8 from the outside is horrible, i thought what is mazda thinking they went from the slick graceful rx7 to that plastic looking POS.

[dmp]

If it's any condolence, mazda didn't go from the RX7 'to' the rx8. The RX8 was never intended to replace the rx7. Right.

[Hops]

Um... Throw on a few suspension mods and the Legacy will beat the shit out of an RX8. Even a modded one. Hands down, the Legacy's platform has more potential. Ever watch any SCCA events? There are very few Legacys there and rarely do you ever see an RX8. When you do, they can't keep up with the Legacy. I know this first hand as I attend every event. I'm in Utah where we have Miller Motorsports Park; one of the best tracks in the world. The cars that always do the best on the track are AWD. Stock vs stock the Mazda may perform in turns better, but overall the RX8 is just a sporty car with a vacuum for an engine. The Legacy is sporty sedan with all the potential of the Impreza platform. I think the RX8 is ugly too, but that's just opinion. The Legacy is gorgeous but very conservative in its styling; which is what most of us like. I like the car that performs without the big spoiler and flashy looks. Everybody has their car of choice, but don't come here and talk shit about the Legacy and act like the RX8 is a much better car. Maybe just leave that to yourself. This IS a Legacy enthusiast forum, anyways.

[05GT Guru]

But it did, when the rx7 was done they had no good sports cars, then they released the rx8 and look at that they still dont. The only good thing about the rx8 is that its rear wheel drive. Also rx8s have 160trq at the crank, thats pathetic in any sports car, whether its built to handle or go fast.

 

I would much rather have my 3300lbs 260hp 270trq AWD sports sedan than you 3000lbs 240hp 160trq rwd toy. Thats all im saying, you got what you want and i got what i wanted, you wanna race on a snow covered road, i bet ill win.

[dmp]

Um... Throw on a few suspension mods and the Legacy will beat the shit out of an RX8. Even a modded one.

 

No it won't. It won't do anything without a driver. I tell ya, I'm so TIRED of the "...but if you MOD'D (insert car), it'd SMOKE a (insert better car)!" line.

 

Hands down, the Legacy's platform has more potential. Ever watch any SCCA events? There are very few Legacys there and rarely do you ever see an RX8. When you do, they can't keep up with the Legacy. I know this first hand as I attend every event. I'm in Utah where we have Miller Motorsports Park; one of the best tracks in the world. The cars that always do the best on the track are AWD.

So - what you're really saying is this: At the track YOU VISIT, AWD CARS fair better than non-awd cars. Big Deal. Is that some kinda news to anyone? Really???

 

Stock vs stock the Mazda may perform in turns better, but overall the RX8 is just a sporty car with a vacuum for an engine.

See that right there? You're stuck on stupid. Hyperbole and logical fallacy are your watchwords. Howniceforyou.

 

The Legacy is sporty sedan with all the potential of the Impreza platform. I think the RX8 is ugly too, but that's just opinion. The Legacy is gorgeous but very conservative in its styling; which is what most of us like.

Potential? Potential = Money. With enough MONEY anything has potential. You aren't arguing "with $20,000 invested a LGT could out-perform, in every measurable way, a stock AT Rx8 on all-season tires" are you?"

 

I car that performs without the big spoiler and flashy looks.

Eh? What?

 

Everybody has their car of choice, but don't come here and talk shit about the Legacy and act like the RX8 is a much better car. Maybe just leave that to yourself. This IS a Legacy enthusiast forum, anyways.

 

You aren't reading very well. See below:

 

The LGT is a GOOD car. It's a car I'll likely own within months. When I own one it'll probably end up being much faster in a straight line than my RX8. Does that mean it'll ever be a sports car? No way. Does that mean it'll ever turn faster laps? Depends on the track. Even if it was faster in every aspect, the LGT will probably never be as fun to drive because it's simply not nor never will be as nimble, as responsive, or as cool-looking.

 

 

What's with the chip on your shoulder? Are you really trying to come to the LGT's defense for some reason? Do you feel PERSONALLY attacked because the car you have isn't in the same class as another car? Are you mad because I pointed it out? Can you objectively look at cars and like them for what they are? I Love the LGT for what it is. I Love the RX8 for what it is. The LGT I buy will have many aspects I enjoy. It'll have some I don't like. Just like my RX8 and every other car I've owned. The difference between you and me is this: I'm secure enough in the car I have or the cars I like to admit their limitations without feeling like my ego is being attacked.

 

But it did, when the rx7 was done they had no good sports cars, then they released the rx8 and look at that they still dont. The only good thing about the rx8 is that its rear wheel drive. Also rx8s have 160trq at the crank, thats pathetic in any sports car, whether its built to handle or go fast.

 

You're confusing 'succession' with 'replacement'. The RX8 succeeded the RX7 - it didn't, nor was it designed to 'replace' the RX7. You don't consider the Miata a 'good' sports car? If you don't, do you realize that would put you in the minority - by landslide - among car enthusiasts? What do you know about the Lotus Elise? Do you consider it a sports car? Do you know how much torque it's engine produces? I rest my case.

 

I would much rather have my 3300lbs 260hp 270trq AWD sports sedan than you 3000lbs 240hp 160trq rwd toy. Thats all im saying, you got what you want and i got what i wanted, you wanna race on a snow covered road, i bet ill win.

lmao....how old are you? Be honest.

[Hops]

There is no hope for you, is there? Stock vs stock the RX8 would be smoked because hands down it is underpowered. That's it, man. Let it go. Go back to your RX8 forum and talk shit about the Legacy.

[fishbone]

No it won't. It won't do anything without a driver. I tell ya, I'm so TIRED of the "...but if you MOD'D (insert car), it'd SMOKE a (insert better car)!" line.

Dude, I agree with you on that point, but what I find interesting, and I'm not saying you're doing it, is that people that defend a certain car will say "yeah, but you need a good driver to blah blah". They are essentially making the assumption that THEIR driver is stellar, while the other driver is the only one that's questionable. Which I always find funny.

For the sake of the argument we're assuming equal drivers.

[Hops]

No it won't. It won't do anything without a driver.

 

When the hell did we start talking about the driver? We're talking about the cars, idiot.

[Hops]

Let opinions be opinions. Like I said, go hang out on your forum and bash on other cars, and we'll stay here and be happy.

[fishbone]

Namecalling really helps. Thumbs up

[dmp]

Dude, I agree with you on that point, but what I find interesting, and I'm not saying you're doing it, is that people that defend a certain car will say "yeah, but you need a good driver to blah blah". They are essentially making the assumption that THEIR driver is stellar, while the other driver is the only one that's questionable. Which I always find funny.

For the sake of the argument we're assuming equal drivers.

 

I fully agree. You put TheStig in a stock RX8 or a stock LGT and which do you suppose would turn a better time around TopGear's test track? Has Top Gear done the LGT?? That might be interesting.

 

There is no hope for you, is there? Stock vs stock the RX8 would be smoked because hands down it is underpowered.

 

Underpowered, yet faster? That's weird. What kinda trap speeds do LGT's put down? mid 90s? High 90s? VERY close to an RX8, yet the RX8 is 'under powered' eh?

 

That's it, man. Let it go. Go back to your RX8 forum and talk shit about the Legacy.

 

I don't talk shit about ANY cars -why would I start now?

 

 

When the hell did we start talking about the driver? We're talking about the cars, idiot.

 

Ad hominem only makes you look foolish and desperate.

[05GT Guru]

I dont know who your are referring to since you quoted yourself, but i know the LGT isnt the best car its my fun DD, i have a 500+rwhp supra thats my power car. I know the LGT isnt the best car ever, but it handles well, it has good power and enough trq to put me in my seat and thats what i wanted. You may have wanted some baller handleing and the get up and go of a baby goose and you did it. We all win yay. As far as daily drivers go, it has AWD i have driven the car on days where there is over 10 inchs of snow, i have also done 0-60 in 5.7 seconds and i have gotten 28mpg freeway, it also has a big enough back seat for a baby seat which i need. So its everything i want in a car that i use for family purposes as well as soem fun when my baby isnt in the car. Have you ever driven a legacy BTW?

[Hops]

Give it up, dude. Why are you even on this website? You take a stab at the Legacy with an RX8, of course a few people are going to get defensive. I found it disrespectful. Are you going to keep going on and on and on?

[05GT Guru]

In case you are wondering im 20 years old and what would that have to do with anything?