tytek Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Here is a nice CAD animation of the Subaru Diesel Boxer engine... [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G5TcWg0TMc&feature=related]YouTube - Subaru Boxer Turbo Diesel Engine[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommyh Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/firstdrive/2008/subaru.legacy.turbo.diesel/08.subaru.legacy.td.wagon.prf.500.jpg Isn't it pretty... no stupid overhanging front bumper, no stupid raised roof humps with rails.... and a nice diesel inside with an MT box to command it And just think, with a nice tune and some new exhaust pipes, that thing should be able to put out over 450 lb/ft of torque. Hell, people have been getting over 410 lb/ft out of VW TDI cars for years now. mmmm...stump pulling... Martin Luther - "Who loves not women, wine and song remains a fool his whole life long." EL4NFZT7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centerpunch Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 British review of diesel Legacy http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Subaru-Legacy-2.0TD-R/230393/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABPillinois Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Why? I want one please! [ame=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6273079666859483641&q=subaru+diesel&total=43&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4]Subaru Boxer Diesel[/ame] :rolleyes:"All right, brain, I don't like you and you don't like me - so let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you with beer." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 This is the most interesting thing I have seen coming from Subaru in a long time...hopefully it makes it to the U.S. That sure says allot coming from you...lolol....I really hope they bring it over too. I would definitely considering buying one.. "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 That sure says allot coming from you...lolol....I really hope they bring it over too. I would definitely considering buying one.. I'd definitely be all over this. DI, Turbo, low particulate emissions, lots of woot, woot power, what's not to like. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wa-gone Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I'm ready to unload my premium-gas-sucking GT MT wagon for a new diesel MT wagon NOW! I'm not sure I'll be able to wait 2 1/2 years, though. 45 vs. 20 MPG @ 25k miles / yr. @ $3.00 / gal. = over $2k / yr. saved. That's the simple math. Fuel will be much more expensive this summer and beyond, so the savings would be even greater. Ironic that the strict US pollution laws will keep a much more efficient engine out of the US. I'm sure my current engine emits more pollution burning more than two gallons of premium gas to the one gallon of diesel the new diesel would burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Where is there diesel that is only $3.00 gallon? ....especially this time of year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wa-gone Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Where is there diesel that is only $3.00 gallon? ....especially this time of year. This was a quick calculation. I haven't seriously considered any diesels in the last few years, so I haven't paid much attention to diesel prices. My math was assuming premium gas was roughly the same price as diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 This was a quick calculation. I haven't seriously considered any diesels in the last few years, so I haven't paid much attention to diesel prices. My math was assuming premium gas was roughly the same price as diesel. Wait until the E85 (Ethanol) requirement hits and see how much gasoline goes up. When you realize that you're taking food off the table (literally) to grow corn and other ethanol contributors, there'll be a serious cost escalation. And I wish I only paid $3.00/gal for 91 octane. Try $3.49 and going up about .05 to .10 a week locally. Diesel may be the tradeoff for E85 in a lot of people's minds, cost-to-cost. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Well given that you're on the east cost, diesel is about 40-50 cents more than premium this time of year and during the warm months its about 20-30 cents more expensive. Its expensive along the east coast (including the south) and in alot of the midwest. Apparently the premium isn't quite as drastic in the western states. Wait until the E85 (Ethanol) requirement hits and see how much gasoline goes up. When you realize that you're taking food off the table (literally) to grow corn and other ethanol contributors, there'll be a serious cost escalation. And I wish I only paid $3.00/gal for 91 octane. Try $3.49 and going up about .05 to .10 a week locally. Diesel may be the tradeoff for E85 in a lot of people's minds, cost-to-cost. SBT E85 is just dumb. It is food and it may run cleaner, but you have to use so much more of it. Don't companies that have X amount of E85 vehicles get some kind of CAFE exemption? Something like 2 mpg? I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 E85 is just dumb. It is food and it may run cleaner, but you have to use so much more of it. You can use sugar instead of corn to make ethanol. You actually get a lot more ethanol with sugar than corn. I think Brazil has pretty much became self-sufficient because of sugar ethanol. Don't companies that have X amount of E85 vehicles get some kind of CAFE exemption? Something like 2 mpg? I could be wrong. Not sure about the 2 mpg but there is an E85 CAFE exemption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 ^ Corn is used to get sugar. Sugar cane doesn't grow well in the US mid west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcumeda Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 I believe corn is used to create high fructose corn syrup... not sugar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobE Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Brazil uses switch grass to produce ethanol. http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Brazil uses switch grass to produce ethanol. Nope, sugar cane. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/10/world/americas/10brazil.html?ex=1302321600&en=03adc82c67600388&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 ^ Corn is used to get sugar. Sugar cane doesn't grow well in the US mid west. But sugar could be very cheap to import. The argument that some are making is that we should take off the excessive tax on sugar import and use that to make ethanol instead of corn. Of course this means we are still importing our fuel supply, but at least it should help on the supply side of the supply-demand equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I believe corn is used to create high fructose corn syrup... not sugar... Fructose is a sugar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarra Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Any chance that the diesel would be swappable into a USDM or other DM vehicle? I'd kick some butt to get a turbo diesel H4 motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Any chance that the diesel would be swappable into a USDM or other DM vehicle? I'd kick some butt to get a turbo diesel H4 motor. All engine swap is possible if you have enough money and time... Realistically it would be easier just to wait for SOA to bring over the diesel and buy one then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 No matter what you grow for sugar, it still takes land, nutrients, and water, and farmers to cultivate and harvest it. Corn is a plentiful crop, but inefficient at producing simple sugars like glucose and sucrose, it has more fructose, and starches, which are converted to sugars. But all that takes processing. It takes fuel to harvest, transport, and handle. I see it EVERY day, living in Iowa. It also takes energy to process the raw corn meal, or kernels into alcohol. AND a lot of clean water. That energy usually comes from the electrical power grid. What in the midwest produces electricity? Coal, usually. There may be a couple of nuclear reactors, such as Fort Calhoun, NE, which has a dedicated trunk line to Cargill in Blair, NE. That place is lit up like the sun at night. It produces more atmospheric halo effect than the rest of the town, by far. I've lived there, too. But there are coal plants in Omaha, and Council Bluffs, just a few miles down the missouri river. There are also the same things throughout the state, and the midwest. But most of the power generation is still fossil-fuel based, and more power demand means more power plants using more fossil fuel. If the subsidy for Corn ethanol were to focus on another source of ethanol, it would deflate the current record-setting corn prices, and farmers, either here, elsewhere, or both, would switch to the other crop. Corn prices also effect other things. Anything with high-fructose corn syrup as an additive, anything made from corn meal, like tortillas, and anything that is dependent on corn meal for livestock feed, like meat and milk, are all going up. Ripple effect. Ethanol, regardless of plant-source, must be trucked. It is hygroscopic, and assimilates water, especially in long-run pipelines. More over-the-road trucking of ethanol stock uses more fuel, as well. Not to mention the cost of the materials, energy, water, and production and transport facilities eat most of revenue of selling 85% of a gallon of fuel, making it a very slim profit margin for EVERYONE in the production chain to try and get their wages and costs out of, which is why the government has to subsidize it. That is all before it is considered that alcohol attacks normal rubber, and so the seals in the engine and fuel system have to be changed for alcohol-resistant composites, which cost more. AND the fact that alcohol is less energy dense, so gets less mileage per gallon than gasoline, so you burn it faster. So now, it is looking like the energy accounting from top soil to fuel tank is looking pretty poor for Ethanol as a fuel. But that isn't all. By artificially inflating the demand for Corn, they have pushed out other crops from the farmland. Soybeans and Wheat are both suffering, due to the crop land being planted in Corn, because it pays better. Farmers have gotten the short end of the market for so long that they take what they can get, and if Corn is giving it, they plant corn. Farmers pay retail prices for their materials and their implements, yet get paid wholesale for their products, and have to live for a year on the margin between, in a good scenario where they don't owe money on the land, implements, seed, fertilizer, pesticide, or past year's failed crop. Name one other industry that operates backwards like that. So, when money comes their way, they do what they feel they need to do. My grandfather, and two uncles are farmers, and my mom owns a third share in that farm, so I know a little about that, as well. But, with the prevalence of Corn, Wheat and Soy are taking a back seat, and this country is having to import Wheat for the first time since 1948, when the Marshall plan to rebuild europe demanded most of our wheat crop. That is going to drive up the price of anything made from wheat, soy, or other grain crops besides Corn, which is pretty much everything else in the grocery store. AND Corn is notoriously hard on nitrogen levels in the soil, and with high-yeild demands, more pesticides/insecticides, and nitrate fertilizers are being used, which wash into the water table. We not only drink that water, but it is also needed to... MAKE MORE ETHANOL, and it has to be cleaned, which takes more energy. So. For the slightly less amount of fossil fuel you burn with E85, it is going to cost you more at the pump, and in the grocery store, and everywhere else, as fuel/energy prices rise anyway for power and shipping of goods. And we damage our natural resources to do it. Have fun. There is nothing free, in terms of cost, in this world, and trying to find "free" usually costs more than just paying up front. BTW, this just posted on Autoblog: Science magazine declares ethanol worse for the Earth than fossil fuels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarra Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 All engine swap is possible if you have enough money and time... Realistically it would be easier just to wait for SOA to bring over the diesel and buy one then. No offense to anyone here, but anything newer than a 2005 doesn't appeal to me styling or mechanical-wise. I'd rather keep my current car and put new technology in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Corn is a plentiful crop, but inefficient at producing simple sugars like glucose and sucrose, it has more fructose, and starches, which are converted to sugars. Sucrose, fructose, dextrose, maltose, etc. are all sugars. They all break down into glucose. The thing about corn is that it most of the hydrocarbons are in cellulose which is a very stable molecule. That's why you hear the imbecile in chief talking about cellulosic ethanol (switch grass) all the time. Sucrose rich sugar cane (the entire stock is full of sugar instead of just the seeds) doesn't grow in temperate regions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Remember folks, when the diesel hits the US, it will probably be in the Forester and Impreza first, then maybe the Legacy. I doubt Canada will ever see a diesel Legacy wagon Also, the body styling will be completley different for 2010. If we're lucky it will look like a cross between an Impreza and the new Forester. If not then we're in for a real disaster Just think "bigger" overall, The Legacy needs its own platform now that the Impreza and, by extension, the Forester are now built on the Legacy platform. And I do believe we'll see a TD in a Legacy whatever platform we end up with come 2010. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobE Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Cobb should have the new diesel AP ready by 2020. http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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