SBT Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 This surface the TOB slides on is not difficult to reproduce. This sounds like a line from Fast Times at Ridgmont High... but my friend has an awesome CNC lathe... he can make one. I was hoping for a fast fix but I don't want to tear this apart more than I have to. My Legacy has been down for a few weeks now and with a chance of winter weather this week my current ride won't do... I need my Legacy back on the road. BoozeRS05 - do you have a micrometer you can measure your existing TSK2 / TSK3 kits with? What does the naked eye tell you is the difference between the two? Aloha May need to go this route. Sounds like the issue is I.D. and TOB ears related. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozeRS05 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 OK, here goes.. OEM TOB after 79k miles.. You can see some grooving on the inside of the bearing, and you can hear some grinding while rotating the bearing, but it's minimal in both cases.. Note, neither sleeve from the kits will fit inside the OEM TOB.. http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll64/BoozeRS05/Car%20Pictures/TOB/DSC_0712.jpg?t=1227478645 http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll64/BoozeRS05/Car%20Pictures/TOB/DSC_0713.jpg?t=1227478666 http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll64/BoozeRS05/Car%20Pictures/TOB/DSC_0714.jpg?t=1227478682 The TSK2.. Distinctly different then the OEM TOB with a sleeve-like thing attached & different ears then the OEM TOB.. http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll64/BoozeRS05/Car%20Pictures/TOB/DSC_0715.jpg?t=1227478856 http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll64/BoozeRS05/Car%20Pictures/TOB/DSC_0717.jpg?t=1227478886 The TSK3.. Appears to be identical to the OEM TOB for the most part.. http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll64/BoozeRS05/Car%20Pictures/TOB/DSC_0718.jpg?t=1227478971 http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll64/BoozeRS05/Car%20Pictures/TOB/DSC_0721.jpg?t=1227479041 The TSK2 & TSK3 sleeves, stacked & side-by-side.. They are the same diameter.. http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll64/BoozeRS05/Car%20Pictures/TOB/DSC_0722.jpg?t=1227479057 http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll64/BoozeRS05/Car%20Pictures/TOB/DSC_0723.jpg?t=1227479129 TSK2 & TSK3 assembled with sleeves, which, again, are interchangeable between the kits.. http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll64/BoozeRS05/Car%20Pictures/TOB/DSC_0727.jpg?t=1227479231 EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 So the I.D. of the TSK3 is not the correct diameter to fit on the LGT's tranny snout? Is That the issue - as it it looks like all else is equal with the TSK3 (TOB, ears, sleeve O.D., etc.)? - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozeRS05 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I'm so confused.. I'm now thinking the sleeves should fit the trans snout, because neither sleeve from the kits fit inside the OEM TOB.. They were both too big, so that would lead me to believe the I.D. of the sleeve should be the same as the I.D. of the OEM TOB.. EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alohajeff Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 The OEM Subaru throw out bearing (TOB) will NEVER fit over the larger PDM quill. That we know is a given. Whatever TOB is used must have a larger inner diameter to accomodate the larger outside diameter of the PDM quill. That is why I was asking what the difference was in the "quills" used in the TSK2 and TSK3. It would not surprise me that the quills are identical between both the TSK2 and TSK3. I'm guessing the only difference is the actual TOB and one is for PUSH and the other is for PULL. If the PDM quill is not fitting over the existing TOB surface it might be because the surface is hosed. I'm not sure what sort of tolerance the PDM quill requires so it's either a case of the quill being totally wrong or the existing surface is so FUBAR'd that the PDM quill won't install. This could be sorted out with a micrometer in about 2 minutes. The numbers will tell us if it'll fit or not. Mic the inside diameter of a new OEM Subaru TOB. Mic the inside and outside diameter of the PDM quill. Mic the outside diameter of the existing transmission TOB snout. I'll have my trans out tomorrow. I've got a micrometer and I'll start taking measurements. I'm taking pictures and writing down notes for the clutch R&R so it's taking a little longer than I would like. Hopefully when I'm done it'll help others that want to tackle this themselves. Aloha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Well both the TSK2 and TSK3 (at least for the Turbo Legacy) are both supposed to be "push" type clutches. I know that my 98 LGT (TSK2) and my 05 LGT (TSK3 - maybe) are both push clutches. AJ - looking forward to the details from your measurements. Once we have the detailed info, then it's time to reach out to PDM to see what they have to say. Something tells me that the fit/doesn't fit is more a function of the condition of the snout (especially if the stock TOB grenaded on it) and not a function of improper I.D. on the quill itself. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozeRS05 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Like I said, I don't know what to think. The guy doing the work on my tranny is very knowledgeable, and trusted. I was told the case & components of the tranny looked to be in great shape, so I have a hard time believing my trans snout is significantly damaged to the point that the PDM quill wouldn't fit. I'm looking forward to some actual numbers as well. I'm glad to be of any help if possible too. I should have my car back tomorrow so if there are any questions I can ask the tech let me know, and I'll check back here before I see him. EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTDriver Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I have an 08 with 37000KM (23xxx Mi) and have a churp that only goes away when the clutch is in. So I brought it to the dealer and they looked at it and did not know what was wrong with it so they sent the info away to Subaru. They phoned me and told me to pick it up and they would get back to me I asked them if they were sure that I could drive it and they said yes. Should I drive it? They also said that there was a possibility that it wont be covered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alohajeff Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Get it all in writing if you can. That way if it grenades you have written proof that some sort of pre-existing condition was brought to their attention and they were unable/unwilling to repair it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTDriver Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I took the other car to work today, but what is pissing me off is the fact that it only has 23k on it and there going to say that it wont be covered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alohajeff Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I never read you posting that Subaru said it WON'T be covered... I read "possibility that it wont be covered" which is standard Subaru Dealer speak. Unfortunately with Subaru you sometimes have to play hardball and that is where the paperwork will be worth its weight in gold. I'd go back to the dealership IMMEDIATELY and have them put in writing that you came in with a complaint, the dealership looked at the car, agreed with you that some noise is indeed being made, and they are unable / unwilling to fix it. The reason for this is all too familiar for other owners. Let's assume the chirp is something like a TOB, and one day you are driving and the TOB takes a huge crap and on it's way out destroys the sleeve (quill) on the transmission case and also manages to wipe out the input shaft. That $40 Subaru TOB could have been replaced by Subaru as a cure for your "chirp" sound you are hearing now. If Subaru neglected to make the repair when you said that something was wrong, and now the whole transmission is fuxor'd, the only thing that might save your arse is paperwork. Don't give them ANY outs. Aloha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozeRS05 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Any update on the install of the PDM sleeve AlohaJeff..? EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alohajeff Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I gave up on the PDM sleeve after reading that yours didn't fit. I ended up pulling my trans out and inspecting the surface the TOB rides on. The TOB was toast but the transmission case and TOB surface were aok. I'm posting video of what my TOB sounded like right after I removed it. The surface the bearing rides on isn't really the issue, it's the CRAP TOB that Subaru uses. The quill that PDM sells is fine and dandy and I have no doubt a harder than aluminum surface is a benefit, but the big improvement is probably from the TOB itself. It was a blessing in disguise. When I pulled the clutch I noticed it was worn pretty far down. It wouldn't take another 10,000 or so miles before the clutch itself was worn down to the rivets. I took a bunch of pictures during the disassembly and will be putting together a little writeup of my own. I was able to download a couple of Subaru service manuals from a place called pdftown.com and that gave me all of the torque specs that I needed for re-assembly. Here's the video of the TOB - turn your sound up. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kvkUmIGvSE]YouTube- MVI_3634.avi[/ame] Aloha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyHermit Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 ...The surface the bearing rides on isn't really the issue, it's the CRAP TOB that Subaru uses... I mentioned something like this before and I totally agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozeRS05 Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Man, that TOB sounds bad.. Mine wasn't nearly as audible, seems like it was only a matter of time till it failed.. EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaskajoel Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Took my car to the local subaru dealership when i started getting a horrible whine from between the engine and transmission when engaging the clutch. They said my TOB was on it's way out, and they would call SOA to see if it fell under my Gold Plus Extended warranty (car has 45k miles on it). SOA called back and said yes! it's covered! (i was pretty amazed) Now should i go out of my way to replace the clutch assemby while it's all taken apart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Took my car to the local subaru dealership when i started getting a horrible whine from between the engine and transmission when engaging the clutch. They said my TOB was on it's way out, and they would call SOA to see if it fell under my Gold Plus Extended warranty (car has 45k miles on it). SOA called back and said yes! it's covered! (i was pretty amazed) Now should i go out of my way to replace the clutch assemby while it's all taken apart... If you have the Gold Plus Extended, then have them replace the pressure plate (and they may even replace the disk too). I know that my master tech mentioned that the PP is covered and may very well be compromised by your failing TOB. You can make the case that one followed the other. TOB - failing > poor PP connection (engagement/disengagement) > caused the disk to wear-out prematurely. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_m Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 so I went through the entire thread, can we summarize in saying neither the TSK2 or TSK3 fit the tranny of the LGT or has someone managed to get them to fit. Has someone contacted PDM directly? thx. *************** UPDATE *********************** see POST NO.6 here: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102833 ********************************************* . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antecylintz Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 anyone had any issues with the clutch pedal itself squeaking when depressing? this started about a month ago after i replaced the clutch when the TOB exploded with an ACT street disc and 06 WRX flywheel setup a few months ago. there is no leaking and no engagement/slipping issues. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 My pedal has been squeaking since the car was new. I just always forget to put some oil on the pedal bushing. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 ^ It's not the bushing but the clutch position switch that usually squeaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 ^ It's not the bushing but the clutch position switch that usually squeaks. Will check it...sometime. Thanks! What's the fix for that? - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemo Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Does this TOB issue affect the later year LGTs? It seems everyone who has a problem with it has an 05. If you don't vote Trump, out, you're a bigot who hates america. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Will check it...sometime. Thanks! What's the fix for that? Lube the switch or replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antecylintz Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 thanks subietonic & unclemat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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