Chubien Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Why do newer Legacy models produce less power that earlier years ? It appears that the 2005-2006 models made more power stock and made MUCH more power once tuned to stage 1 or 2 compared to 2008's ? On the Cobb website a 2005 stage 1 makes same or more power that a 2008 stage 2 ... how come we get so little gains staging the 2008's ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlgt21 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 The 2008's don't have a cat in there uppipe from the factory so maybe there tune is already more agressive then the 05-06. Also the 05-06 usually go from having a cat there to putting a catless uppipe in and tuning it. Thats my thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005garnetGT Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 because subaru knew they needed some way to get you guys to stfu about SI-Drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 In stock form I'd give the advantage to the 07-08, but tuned really can't say at this point as there have not been enough examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 When everything is said and done, my bet will be that the 2007+ cars will make slightly more power. The ecu changed in 2007 on all the cars. I know that many of the 2007 STi tuners were having trouble with it for a long time. There were a lot of surprises like new timing tables that were switched under certain conditions. My guess is that no one wants to be the first to blow up a 2008 stage 2 LGT engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillboy Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 These are the left over engines after they get done picking out all the "good" ones for the spec-Bs. It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGT Dave Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 It's already been shown on other threads here that the stock 07+ LGT's are making only a little less than what the 05-06 stage 1 cars do. The dyno graphs on Cobb's site for the 05-06 cars were performed on a different dyno than the dyno graphs for the 07-08 cars. The new dyno graphs were run at an altitude of 4500 ft., so the numbers will look low. See this post from Trey@Cobb: http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1574477&postcount=615. Like Trey said, the dyno graphs they get after doing their testing at sea level will probably have much better numbers. The important thing when reading dyno graphs is not the numbers however. What's important is the gains seen over the stock graph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed 2.0 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 You haven't been reading the forums too closely, then. Stock 07-08 cars make almost what a stage 1 05-06 does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Stock 07-08 cars make almost what a stage 1 05-06 oes. Um, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbc84 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Im pretty happy with my 08' LGT 5mt dyno that i got done this week 222whp and 251tq. all stock. I was expecting a lot less on the torque and be closer to 200whp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed 2.0 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Um, no. Cobb ran a Stage 1 2005 LGT 5MT on a Mustang dyno for 223 whp http://cobbtuning.com/images_products/3133.jpg Cobb also ran a stock 2008 LGT 5MT on a Mustang dyno for 219 whp http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1498256&postcount=333 The difference in torque is non-trivial, but peak power is extremely similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Technically, these are two different dynos...the exact same models, but actually different dynos. We try to keep all AccessPORT calibration testing to our Mustang AWD Chassis Dynamometer that is at our main facility, but some times we have to go to our other facility at the Miller Motorsports Park for testing. This dyno is the exact same model #, but it features less sensor inputs. I need to see the cars run on the same EXACT dyno before i believe it. I do know that the 07+ make alittle more powere do to refined maps, revised turbo, and 1 less cat in the exhaust, but 07+ stock being the same as a 05-06 stage 1, I dont think that is quite accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed 2.0 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I need to see the cars run on the same EXACT dyno before i believe it. I do know that the 07+ make alittle more powere do to refined maps, revised turbo, and 1 less cat in the exhaust, but 07+ stock being the same as a 05-06 stage 1, I dont think that is quite accurate. Fair enough, but there are plenty of tuners on here (including boostjunkie) who claim otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutru01 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Stock 07-08 cars make almost what a stage 1 05-06 does. That is if you think 15-20 whp is a small difference, which it isn't IMO. 2008 GT Stock Power: The peak power values for this vehicle were recorded at 219 lb. ft. torque and 208 WHP on a totally stock vehicle. These values were measured at the wheels on our load-based Mustang AWD Chassis Dynamometer. The Cobb Stage 1 is putting down 223 whp. That is a difference of 15 whp if my math is right. I think you might have confused the whp with the torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Fair enough, but there are plenty of tuners on here (including boostjunkie) who claim otherwise. Boostjunkie has tuned a few cars but is not a tuner Sorry Paul But I do agree that 07-08 are making close to stg 1 05-06 LGT's whp. Probally the big reason most 07-08 owners aren't noticing much change (powerwise) from the AP's stage 1 mapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutru01 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 ^ Well, Stage 1 is for pussies anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 ^ Well, Stage 1 is for pussies anyway. Can't argue that, I never even experienced it. Your FAR from stage 1 now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutru01 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 ^ Yes, this is true. I did actually do Stage I with my previous LGT. Only for about a week until I went Stage II. Its really not that big of a difference from stock though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozeRS05 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I have an 07 catless LGT UP uninstalled, and I'll be getting the AP v2 as soon as the prices, used, drop in light of the new AP release.. Running a catless UP, 93 oct ., stg 1; I was expecting about +15whp over stock on my 05 LGT.. Not gonna happen? EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I have an 07 catless LGT UP uninstalled, and I'll be getting the AP v2 as soon as the prices, used, drop in light of the new AP release.. Running a catless UP, 93 oct ., stg 1; I was expecting about +15whp over stock on my 05 LGT.. Not gonna happen? Prices won't drop anymore than they are now. The "new" AP is the same as the other APv2's but are programed for CAN ECU based vehicles with a CAN bus cord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozeRS05 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Regardless, how about my power estimate? If I can pull 15whp more out of the car without the reliability/practicality concerns of going stg 2, then I'll be happy.. EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 reliability/practicality concerns of going stg 2 which are? catless UP and highflow cat downpipe and a reflash. very reliable and totally practical. the LGT shoulda came stage 2 from the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edkwon Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Cobb also ran a stock 2008 LGT 5MT on a Mustang dyno for 219 whp http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1498256&postcount=333 The difference in torque is non-trivial, but peak power is extremely similar. Thats interesting because my stock 07 measured about 200 whp on a Mustang dyno close to sea level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozeRS05 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 which are? catless UP and highflow cat downpipe and a reflash. very reliable and totally practical. the LGT shoulda came stage 2 from the factory. What's practical is subjective, & stg 1 is more reliable then stg 2, because it's closer to stock IMO.. I guess my power estimate is close, otherwise someone may have commented on it, other then everything else I've said.. Imagine that.. EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnin4 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 my 08 spec b makes a lot more power than my 05 lgt. 08 spec b dyno'd 219whp/244tq and my 05 lgt dyno'd 185whp/210tq on the exact same dyno. the 05 lgt got a stage 2 and custom dyno tune, made 238/248. I expect my 08 to dyno 270/290 (stg2 + dyno tune), but we'll see once the protuner software is released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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