AKLGT Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 well he ran his turbo upgrade and stg 2 before that with just the tranny cooler, no VB upgrade. Wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle yeah!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyan Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Update soon. And I agree with your summation, which is why I post. My own experiences and upgrades are spread throughtout the forums. This much is certain, the 5EAT is finite. The exact limitations that are unfolding reveal it is not as strong as we all thought it was in the beginning. Right now I believe a good rule of thumb is this, you will need a VB upgrade for moderate top-o-the-line Stg2 and a fully built tranny if you want reliability with a serious turbo upgrade. This is all predicated on unrestricted, run it like you stole it, use, which to me is what this is all about. Why, oh why, install s... stuff you cannot use when you want, as you want. In short, after 400chp count on getting a built 5EAT, sooner or later. I say 'update soon' because my 5EAT is still at IPT. Although I have a preliminary diagnosis that specified burnt clutchs the full report has not been revealed. When I know I'll let people know. It is important that people know what awaits certain actions. In addition to the built 5EAT IPT is rebuilding my TC to similar specs, i.e., new parts, furnace brazing, higher stall speed, etc. Meanwhile, the in-radiator and external Hayden coolers and lines are being flushed, then a new filter installed. Amsoil ATF is going in as well as Amsoil in the front diff. While I wait little things are being addressed... like the ground on my headers, filling the rear LCA forward bushings with 3M WS poly, some map tweaking, etc. Not to mention a LOT of introspection . Good luck with everything! Sorry to hear that the 380 killed the clutch paks, but that isn't too shocking everything considered with what we know about the 5eats. I'm still counting my blessings that i'm still gtg on the tranny front (again, for the time being). 11K and counting on the latest tune. Mike SoCal Duck Hunters Club - Unit 52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTGT Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 This thread has made me really appreciate something. I want to go through a great local shop that has lots of experience and can outsource to a lot of great companies. I want to build a race tranny that can hold 500+ whp. That way I could get all the power to the ground. And that way every power mod I made I could go out there and launch it at a track and not think it will break every time. I feel like a race tranny even with basic stage two parts could yield 12.8-12.9 with a great launch and being able to put down all that power. I do not want to rule out putting in another transmission. Any idea what other tranmissions might work in our cars with no a ton of modification? Does Jatco make a race transmissions. And it that is not reasonable I want to do what Mikeyan is doing, cryo the gear, upgrade the clutch packs and gears, and a few other things. I think those things could be done for 3000-4000 installed. Where as the IPT tranny is 4500 + installation :/ Please comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_KT Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Good luck with everything! Sorry to hear that the 380 killed the clutch paks, but that isn't too shocking everything considered with what we know about the 5eats. I'm still counting my blessings that i'm still gtg on the tranny front (again, for the time being). 11K and counting on the latest tune. Mike Amen to that. When I rode in your car I was surprised that your shifts were still firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 This thread has made me really appreciate something. I want to go through a great local shop that has lots of experience and can outsource to a lot of great companies. I want to build a race tranny that can hold 500+ whp. That way I could get all the power to the ground. And that way every power mod I made I could go out there and launch it at a track and not think it will break every time. I feel like a race tranny even with basic stage two parts could yield 12.8-12.9 with a great launch and being able to put down all that power. I do not want to rule out putting in another transmission. Any idea what other tranmissions might work in our cars with no a ton of modification? Does Jatco make a race transmissions. And it that is not reasonable I want to do what Mikeyan is doing, cryo the gear, upgrade the clutch packs and gears, and a few other things. I think those things could be done for 3000-4000 installed. Where as the IPT tranny is 4500 + installation :/ Please comment There are multiple parts to this. One consistent element is the proper removal, shipping to and from, and reinstallation. The transmission is only right now being listed in parts sources. Getting the proper upgraded clutches, etc. is not yet a pick and choose. For the other work, finding some place well versed in this transmission as well as modifying to significantly higher standards of performance will come from a small pool. And, among those few finding the ones with the capability and investment in equipment, including machining, welding, cryo and heat treating, and furnace brazing will narrow that number even further. Then there is the issue of the Valve Body. This is the transmission's brain. Only someone with practiced experience on this one, and this one only, will do. In the end there will be a precious few who qualify, however well. They will have to be able to appeal to a very wide customer base, certainly nationally if not internationally, as the number of people with these kinds of needs and the means and desire to pay for these services will be a very small percentage. Added all up what rare, exotic shop will come cheap. I certainly wouldn't sell my services for less than a good profit given these conditions. Out of all the searching I have heard of only two sources for 'built' 5EAT transmissions. One has a bad reputation. One has a good reputation. If you come up with alternate solutions that provide what IPT does, in total and even better, and they provide it cheaper.... you will be doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_KT Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 SeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeYa, thank your responding to my PM in regards to your transmission ordeal. I'll respond later as I would actually like to dedicate some time in writing my response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 this thread really makes it hard for me to consider going past stage 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Originally Posted by VTGT http://legacygt.com/forums/skynetim/buttons/viewpost.gif This thread has made me really appreciate something. I want to go through a great local shop that has lots of experience and can outsource to a lot of great companies. I want to build a race tranny that can hold 500+ whp. That way I could get all the power to the ground. And that way every power mod I made I could go out there and launch it at a track and not think it will break every time. I feel like a race tranny even with basic stage two parts could yield 12.8-12.9 with a great launch and being able to put down all that power. Further to my last: It should be becoming more clear to people that the LGT is an expensive platform to take past a certain point. There's a number of reasons for this, including it's weight as well as its designed intent. As I believe RC said, in paraphrase, if you want big power get a car with a bigger engine to start with. I agree. It is amazing what this (not so) little car with its (not so little) engine can do. Back when I lived at the track with a 455ci, 4cyl cars were 'cute.' No one could have convinced me they could do what I now know this engine can. On the other hand, it takes more than this. To do it right and get big horsepower like the above 500whp, you better put BIG bucks into the engine first. Then ALL the rest of the car will break if you don't address the remainder as well. Even with 'stage2' I destroyed my rear diff, between regular autoxing and hammering it daily. Axels have a limit. Clutches, and gear boxes have limits. Automatic transmissions have a limit. On and on, so at the end, once everything is addressed, you have a VERY expensive LGT that no longer quite fits into the framework of its original intent. You could never get your money back out of it. When people quote the old admonition, "you have to pay to play," they were speaking directly about the Legacy 2.5GT. After these years of production look around at how many really built ones there are. These are great cars the way they come from the factory, and even greater with a few modifications. But when people want them to emulate a Grand National, for example, they picked the wrong car. My own situation didn't come from aspiring to own a wild ride. I built a good stage2+ car that even as it was drew a little more attention than was good for me. But I liked it. Then, as the evidence grew about the VF40's uncertain reliability I decided to replace it with something similar but better. The AVO380 fit the bill perfectly. Only it made more power than I expected it to, and on top of the accumulated use that power crossed the line and claimed my tranny. Now I'll have a vey quick, and fast, daily driver that won't protest if I care to take it racing. A good thing. But I won't be 'hammering' it like I used to before reality came to visit, rear diffs are expensive, along with who knows what. My three year old Subaru looks innocent, minus the slight lowering via the Teins. And I'm intending to own and enjoy it for years to come, I like its looks and what it does. Time will tell just how street competitive it is, but I'm not concerned . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Interesting IPT thread over on Nasioc. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1418958&page=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTGT Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Out of all the searching I have heard of only two sources for 'built' 5EAT transmissions. One has a bad reputation. One has a good reputation. I agree with everything you have said. But we know for a fact our transmission is the same one in the G35, 350z, Titan, etc.... And I am sure that some other company other than IPT or the like could do this work if they are familiar with the Jatco transmissions. Is there a heavy duty Jatco tranmission that we might be able to use in the legacy? I just feel like other people have worked on these transmissions because I have seen and heard about automatic 350z drag cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyan Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Further to my last: It should be becoming more clear to people that the LGT is an expensive platform to take past a certain point. There's a number of reasons for this, including it's weight as well as its designed intent. As I believe RC said, in paraphrase, if you want big power get a car with a bigger engine to start with. I agree. It is amazing what this (not so) little car with its (not so little) engine can do. Back when I lived at the track with a 455ci, 4cyl cars were 'cute.' No one could have convinced me they could do what I now know this engine can. On the other hand, it takes more than this. To do it right and get big horsepower like the above 500whp, you better put BIG bucks into the engine first. Then ALL the rest of the car will break if you don't address the remainder as well. Even with 'stage2' I destroyed my rear diff, between regular autoxing and hammering it daily. Axels have a limit. Clutches, and gear boxes have limits. Automatic transmissions have a limit. On and on, so at the end, once everything is addressed, you have a VERY expensive LGT that no longer quite fits into the framework of its original intent. You could never get your money back out of it. When people quote the old admonition, "you have to pay to play," they were speaking directly about the Legacy 2.5GT. After these years of production look around at how many really built ones there are. These are great cars the way they come from the factory, and even greater with a few modifications. But when people want them to emulate a Grand National, for example, they picked the wrong car. My own situation didn't come from aspiring to own a wild ride. I built a good stage2+ car that even as it was drew a little more attention than was good for me. But I liked it. Then, as the evidence grew about the VF40's uncertain reliability I decided to replace it with something similar but better. The AVO380 fit the bill perfectly. Only it made more power than I expected it to, and on top of the accumulated use that power crossed the line and claimed my tranny. Now I'll have a vey quick, and fast, daily driver that won't protest if I care to take it racing. A good thing. But I won't be 'hammering' it like I used to before reality came to visit, rear diffs are expensive, along with who knows what. My three year old Subaru looks innocent, minus the slight lowering via the Teins. And I'm intending to own and enjoy it for years to come, I like its looks and what it does. Time will tell just how street competitive it is, but I'm not concerned . Part of me believes that a later spooling turbo is a bit better for the 5eat, perhaps the avo380 was a bit too much of an early hitter? making too much power while everything is still slipping? Then again, it may have had nothing to do with your 5eat dying... Mike SoCal Duck Hunters Club - Unit 52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Part of me believes that a later spooling turbo is a bit better for the 5eat, perhaps the avo380 was a bit too much of an early hitter? making too much power while everything is still slipping? Then again, it may have had nothing to do with your 5eat dying... Mike You are probably correct. Edmundu has been telling me that for at least two years . On the other hand, I think it was half dead anyway, the AVO just finished it off. And it does hit early, and stays long, I hold 19psi past 7k and had to really reduce WGDC to bring it down to that. These are the characteristics that I wanted. (skip the broken tranny part here) And should all go as anticipated it will once again provide that kind of start-to-finish performance, only without concern for the transmission. It was a handful the relatively few times I hammered it from a stop, breaking traction on shifts.... poor poor tranny. It felt like leaving a slingshot. Easy 4.5 0-60. I only held the brake to 2500 then, imagine what it could do leaving at, say, 3200. The IPT TC is speced at 3500+ according to them. Bad things to diffs, etc., can happen with these possibilities. But the temptation .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyan Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 You are probably correct. Edmundu has been telling me that for at least two years . On the other hand, I think it was half dead anyway, the AVO just finished it off. And it does hit early, and stays long, I hold 19psi past 7k and had to really reduce WGDC to bring it down to that. These are the characteristics that I wanted. (skip the broken tranny part here) And should all go as anticipated it will once again provide that kind of start-to-finish performance, only without concern for the transmission. It was a handful the relatively few times I hammered it from a stop, breaking traction on shifts.... poor poor tranny. It felt like leaving a slingshot. Easy 4.5 0-60. I only held the brake to 2500 then, imagine what it could do leaving at, say, 3200. The IPT TC is speced at 3500+ according to them. Bad things to diffs, etc., can happen with these possibilities. But the temptation .... try it once? Once again, good luck with everything. Sounds like a very solid buildup PS, isn't huge boost up top fun? I'm pulling 24ish up top. doesn't taper much at all for me Mike SoCal Duck Hunters Club - Unit 52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HNRB4LGT Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 sorry im a noob whats a VB upgrade? For the last time, my car is not a Camry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKLGT Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Please search. IPT VB Wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle yeah!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 try it once? Once again, good luck with everything. Sounds like a very solid buildup PS, isn't huge boost up top fun? I'm pulling 24ish up top. doesn't taper much at all for me Mike which turbo do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyan Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 bolton gt30, a blouch dom3, running external wastegate Mike SoCal Duck Hunters Club - Unit 52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 bolton gt30, a blouch dom3, running external wastegate Mike yeah. i ran into your original 400hp dyno post. several months old and all you said was soon as far as taking it to the track. what have you done to the tranny and how is it holding? im assuming no crazy launches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyan Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 missed the last track day of 07 for us while on a navigational rally with my best friend, last track day here was rained out. Waiitng for the next one at this point. No crazy launches, but it isn't to say i haven't done a few 2500 launches just for the hell of it. Tranny is holding up, but i'm not presuming it to last forever Mike SoCal Duck Hunters Club - Unit 52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 missed the last track day of 07 for us while on a navigational rally with my best friend, last track day here was rained out. Waiitng for the next one at this point. No crazy launches, but it isn't to say i haven't done a few 2500 launches just for the hell of it. Tranny is holding up, but i'm not presuming it to last forever Mike Next track day March 8th, you already know im there. I should have a nice 100oct tune on by then also. Looking for high 12's if temps are cool enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKLGT Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 missed the last track day of 07 for us while on a navigational rally with my best friend, last track day here was rained out. Waiitng for the next one at this point. No crazy launches, but it isn't to say i haven't done a few 2500 launches just for the hell of it. Tranny is holding up, but i'm not presuming it to last forever Mike it is a wonder that mine is still alive and kicking! after many many many launches at 3500K+ rpms! Wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle yeah!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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