Cool Article about the 05 SCCA wagons floating around still.. :)

[WRX USA]

 

And I came across this pic of the Snail Performance Time Attack WRX. Another example of a heat extractor hood, but in different locations than mine. It looks like his oil cooler is mounted in front of the upper right radiator, and either power steering or trans coolers in the upper left, which meant modding the grill a lot:

 

http://www.aforwardmotion.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/TravisBarnesWRX-5.jpg

 

Actually it is a radiator/oil cooler combo from LIC: http://www.licmotorsports.com/products/lic-motorsports-v2-radiatoroil-cooler-combo-02-07-wrxsti_lic-032482

 

http://www.snailperformance.com/time-attack-team.html

 

Also grille should fit fine since power steering cooler on upper left is an OEM piece but they probably removed it to increase air flow.

 

Also in regards to wings on wagons, I am sure you have seen this:

 

http://www.snailperformance.com/uploads/6/3/0/7/6307716/8296640.jpg?1074

Edited December 12, 2014 by WRX USA

[Sgt.Gator]

No I Hadn't seen that rear wing solution!

 

Yikes, $2400 for a radiator + oil cooler. I'm buying some cores and going into the business!

 

Since it's legal to go directly over the centerline of the rear wheel, which would mean less rear downforce affecting the front downforce negatively, I was thinking of mounting a wing right on the roof like this:

 

 

 

Possibly the APR GTC-200 Drag, which is only 5" high. All the others are at least 10".

 

http://shop.aprperformance.com/image/image_proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.aprperformance.com%2Fimages%2Fnewsletter%2FGTC_200_Drag3.JPG&width=500&height=500&auth=75525e26a33217cdaa8a7e7d8e5eb635

Edited December 12, 2014 by Sgt.Gator

[Sgt.Gator]

The new ICSCC ST rules are out which benefit my build so that I can up the HP!

I need to be around 372 HP on a Dynojet, so around 340-345 on a Mustang.

 

That changes the 2015 plan a bit. I wasn't going to do any engine mods but now......

 

My tuner, Cobb Surgeline, suggests a Blouch Dominator 1.5 XT-R or 2.5 XT-R.

 

The 1.5XT-R 8cm looks like the ticket. I'd rather start losing weight than gaining HP once I get to around 345 Hp on a Mustang Dyno.

 

And the Perrin ELH looks pretty sweet too! http://blog.perrinperformance.com/perrin-sti-header-evolution/

 

Any community thoughts on the Blouch Dominator or the Perrin ELH?

 

Also I don't have a AOS. Up until now Cobb didn't think it needed, but maybe it's time with the increased power? I've read a lot of conflicting claims from the vendors of these things. Any thoughts on a good one for racing application? Light weight, size, and simple reliability are important.

 

2015 To Dos are now:

Rear Wing. I have a Megan Racing adjustable wing I'm trying to figure out how to mount.

 

Install fuel level gauge in fuel cell, fix low fuel level alarm light. Last night I drained the fuel cell, some progress there.

 

AP Racing front brakes.

 

Paint hood with blue stripes like original racing hood. Visit Driving Force Graphics to get numbers and Subaru of Bend sponsor graphics on new hood.

 

Replace oil pan with new STI. I was going to possibly go Moroso or KillerB, but I'm not sure they will work with the Perrin ELH. The OEM STI version is probably fine, especially with the Cosworth Oil Baffle.

 

Install Cosworth oil pan baffle - crank scraper, I have a couple I bought off the SoA Rally Team (Vermont SportsCar). I'll replace the stock oil pickup with the Moroso version.

 

Whiteline LCAs.

 

HP/TQ upgrade with new turbo and headers.

 

Design and Install fresh air duct for rear diff cooler. Include option for the trans cooler in case I need that too.

 

Possibly replace driver seat. It's technically out of date by FIA standards.

 

Install secondary hand held fire extinguisher.

 

And finally, decide on selling my LGT 5 speed and two R-160 rear diffs. Building an 818 is becoming less likely every day.

 

Now if it wasn't 3 degrees here I could stand working in the garage a little more. I have a heater but it costs a lot to heat it up to a working temp.

 

Happy New Year everyone!

[Gex]

Definitely go with the 1.5xtr. More then enough turbo for 345whp and you won't loose spool like a lag monster 2.5. My other suggestion would be Borg Warner EFR 7163.

 

Good list of turbos for your needs can be found here.

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2559017

[boxkita]

KillerB oil pan & windage tray saved my engine more than once. Extra deep and fits all standard header configs. The KillerB HolyHeader is an awesome piece if you are going ELH.

 

Driving Seat - Look at Sparco & OMP with the built in HALO. Still trying to fit one in the Miata (right now, the left ear sticks out about 2 inches).

 

KillerB also has an upper radiator tank in aluminum if you are using that.

 

AOS - the GS is complete crap. The Crawford seems to work well - met a track rat with one in his STI. He had it hooked to a catchcan.

 

For that turbo, are you going to be slow out of the corners waiting for it to spool? I had problems at the Ridge & Pacific Raceways coming out of the corners if I dropped below 4k getting back on boost. Changing gearing would have helped keep the revs up as I could have run longer in a lower gear instead of up shifting.

 

For mounting the rooftop wing, put the mounting rails back on, use the Yakima rail clips that mount to the OEM rails, then slide the wing to the right location. If you went with Outback rails and filled in the space, you'd get full length wing extensions. The rules don't exclude roof rails...nor do they classify which rails you use. :-)

 

There's a British firm that will give you suggested aero tuning if you send them a model of your car. Depending on pricing, they will do more/less work. There's an aero thread on here somewhere from various work ppl did. Can't find that either. :-(

[boxkita]

While it's low on the lb/min, the HTA68 has worked well for me putting out 335wtq on a mustang. As the hp rating is the only part that matters, you'd be able to run very high tq numbers and still make the cut on hp.

[Drew888]

Hey there Jim! Thanks for pointing me back to this thread. It's been a long while since I've poked around in here. I have read everything and watched all the vids and love the progress. You are it my man, we are all racing vicariously through you. I'm excited to see this story unfold.

 

I have two kids in private school and in another 1.5yrs my son will be a freshman in college. Expenses are growing and I knew they would. Before my major issues and 2 year fight with Garage Tuning I had about 10k set aside to play and, expecting only hpde events, this (and additional parts as needed) would have carried me to now. I never made it and can't afford a separate race car so...again, living vicariously through you Jim until both kids are well into their 2nd or 3rd year of college. I'll then get to rethink this and hopeully get a second chance around the age of maybe 50-52.

 

 

Definitely go with the 1.5xtr. More then enough turbo for 345whp and you won't loose spool...

 

I completely agree with Surgeline and GEX. The 1.5 XTR is a great way to go. This combined with my spare (fully forged) long block with 9.2:1 pistons and you'd still gain on the low end making low end issues a non issue.

 

On the Perrin ELH, it's a nice piece but I recently installed a new Tomioka ELH and immediately noticed more torque so very glad I swapped it out. The piping is a little larger and helps with flow. An ELH will help to control the higher temps out of cylinder #4. In my current engine the porting/polishing/bowl blend almost eliminates this in and by itself. Hmmm, my 9.2:1, Cosworth heads, KillerB parts (pan, tray, pickup), and your 1.5xtr would be quite serious

 

 

KillerB oil pan & windage tray saved my engine more than once. Extra deep and fits all standard header configs. The KillerB HolyHeader is an awesome piece if you are going ELH.

 

If you can swing $1500 for a header than this is truly worth it. It typically has gains in the 20-35whp area over any other ELH header.

 

AOS - the GS is complete crap. The Crawford seems to work well - met a track rat with one in his STI. He had it hooked to a catchcan.

 

The thing here is to not recirc the line back to your intake but to a catch can.

 

While it's low on the lb/min, the HTA68 has worked well for me putting out 335wtq on a mustang. As the hp rating is the only part that matters, you'd be able to run very high tq numbers and still make the cut on hp.

 

The hta68 was not great for me as it only starts to wake up at 21 psi or so (approaching it's efficiency range). For this reason it's an absolutely stellar turbo on E85 but terrible on 91.

 

Happy New Year to you and yours everyone!

[Sgt.Gator]

Definitely go with the 1.5xtr. More then enough turbo for 345whp and you won't loose spool like a lag monster 2.5. My other suggestion would be Borg Warner EFR 7163.

 

Good list of turbos for your needs can be found here.

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2559017

 

Thanks Gex. My first thought was the BW EFR 6758. Cobb pointed it would require new up and downpipes, and the fitment won't be as good. The 1.5 XT-R won't need new piping. I imagine it's the same for the 7163. They are very familiar with my engine bay.

 

The other turbo I was just reading - watching video is the Cavalli. Looks like very nice features, quality parts, and drop in fitment with oem lines. RallysportDirect just started carrying them. The downside is the lack of history/dyno sheets. The 1.5XT-R is a known product. http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Cavalli-CTB28WRX08-Turbo-Stage-1-Ball-Bearing-Turbo

 

KillerB oil pan & windage tray saved my engine more than once. The KillerB HolyHeader is an awesome piece if you are going ELH.

 

I think the STI pan + Cosworth baffle- scraper should be plenty. The only place I ever saw a low oil pressure alarm was the The Carousel at The Ridge. If it happens again I may step up to a full dry sump setup. Over on the 818 forum almost all the 818R builders, and the new factory 818R racer, are going dry sump. The engines keep grenading due to the 1.7G cornering with standard wet sump solutions, although none have yet with the Killer B pan.

 

Driving Seat - Look at Sparco & OMP with the built in HALO. Still trying to fit one in the Miata (right now, the left ear sticks out about 2 inches).(

 

I have a Sparco EVO II I use when I track my other car. It's OK, but I've come to love the all aluminum racing seats like Kirkey. I'll either use the Evo II or get a Kirkey 45 or 71 series seat. I think my EVO II may be getting close to it's FIA expiration too. Kirkeys never expire.

 

 

AOS - the GS is complete crap. The Crawford seems to work well - met a track rat with one in his STI. He had it hooked to a catchcan.

Grimmspeed, Crawford, Prova, Perrin, Moroso, Mishimoto, TurboXS... the list of AOS- Catchcan vendors goes on and on. Why is the GS a complete crap?

 

For that turbo, are you going to be slow out of the corners waiting for it to spool?

No, it spools fast, especially with the 8cm vs 10cm housing.

 

For mounting the rooftop wing, put the mounting rails back on, use the Yakima rail clips that mount to the OEM rails, then slide the wing to the right location. If you went with Outback rails and filled in the space, you'd get full length wing extensions. The rules don't exclude roof rails...nor do they classify which rails you use. :-)(

Great Idea! Checking it out now. Plus I can put my skiis on top for trips to Mt Bachelor!

 

While it's low on the lb/min, the HTA68 has worked well for me putting out 335wtq on a mustang. As the hp rating is the only part that matters, you'd be able to run very high tq numbers and still make the cut on hp.

 

The ST rules factor in TQ too. So you can't run 425 TQ / 375 HP....

[Gex]

On the Borg Warner fitment. You would need to rotate the turbo up and away which can be beneficial getting it away from cylinder 4 and lowering under hood temps. Car definitely needs the 6 quart killer B pan and windage tray. I cant believe it does not have it already!

 

Also please put on a ski rack. That would be awesome! Similar to this Aussie with a Surf Board. But more Pacific Northwest!

 

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/a-racing-wagon-with-carbon-fiber-surfboards-is-the-grea-1675968528/1675994431/+travis

[Sgt.Gator]

Hey Drew!

Nice to have you in the thread. I know all about helping the kids with college. I put off my racing career to age 54 when my nephew challenged me to go to Skip Barber Laguna Seca for the 3 day racing school. Luckily that was the same time my last one graduated. Not that I wasn't getting my fill of speed with 100+ mph pursuits with bad guys!

 

Thanks for the feedback on the posts. I do have to point out that the Killer B ELH does NOT fit all Subaru Turbo Engines, one of the guys in the 818 forum found out the hard way. I'd have to go look up why, can't remember off hand. One of my extra considerations is my remote oil cooler setup. Perrin says their ELH works fine with their oil cooler, and theirs is almost identical to what I have. Besides Perrin is a local Oregon company and I've met Jeff at events.

 

We'll have to talk about doing some track days in your car or the race car. Oregon Raceway Park is 2 hours from my house and an incredible track.

Happy New Year!

[Sgt.Gator]

On the Borg Warner fitment. You would need to rotate the turbo up and away which can be beneficial getting it away from cylinder 4 and lowering under hood temps. Car definitely needs the 6 quart killer B pan and windage tray. I cant believe it does not have it already!

 

Also please put on a ski rack. That would be awesome! Similar to this Aussie with a Surf Board. But more Pacific Northwest!

 

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/a-racing-wagon-with-carbon-fiber-surfboards-is-the-grea-1675968528/1675994431/+travis

 

Love the surf board Red Bull Racing Wagon!

 

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--NXR379SF--/s8frf6iinndcc7z2abv1.jpg

 

 

Cool video! I guess I better take the Silver Eagle to OZ for a showdown!

Edited December 31, 2014 by Sgt.Gator

[WRX USA]

I do have to point out that the Killer B ELH does NOT fit all Subaru Turbo Engines, one of the guys in the 818 forum found out the hard way. I'd have to go look up why, can't remember off hand.

 

With EJ20's you need an EJ25 oil pan, or KillerB oil pan, for clearance.

[Sgt.Gator]

Old pics with the roof rails in action, courtesy of the Wikipedia page:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Subaru_Wagon_Racing-2.jpg/800px-Subaru_Wagon_Racing-2.jpg...

 

 

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Subaru_Wagon_Racing.jpg

 

Just needs cross bars and skis!

[Saltysubie]

Grimmspeed, Crawford, Prova, Perrin, Moroso, Mishimoto, TurboXS... the list of AOS- Catchcan vendors goes on and on. Why is the GS a complete crap?

 

 

When I thought I wanted an AOS, Boxkita's experience scared me away from Grimmspeed - he can tell you more. I bought a Crawford, version 2 and there really isn't much to them internally (I saw a cutaway of one somewhere). With any AOS, it seems that there is a potential issue of condensing water in them that then mixes with the oil to form a milky oil sludge. That's why the Crawford Version 2 added an internal line that heats up the AOS with radiator fluid. It's just one pipe crossing through the AOS body though, so probably not much heat transfer and I don't know if it is effective (maybe?). The other thing that worried me about the Crawford was that the collected oil ends up draining through a small hole internally. I have read some people that really like them but there is a little more concern in cold climates. I think that I would probably look into the Perrin. The bottom of that unit can be removed to clean out the inside if you need to. You may also want to talk to msprank. I seem to recall he has some strong opinions about AOS's.

 

Still enjoying reading this thread!

[boxkita]

My wagon running a track day at Pacific - roof rack in place. I had to remove the snowboard racks & snowboards.

http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpgimage.php?do=full&p=5622&d=1328695311

[boxkita]

When I thought I wanted an AOS, Boxkita's experience scared me away from Grimmspeed - he can tell you more.

 

The GS doesn't have any filtration, it just routes all the hoses back to the oil filler neck. On predominantly CCW tracks, the return would always be uphill and opposite the centrifugal force.

 

The Crawford/Moroso (only 2 I looked at) have a canister to which you can attach a catch can. The catch can picks up the run-off. The cold-weather feature on the Crawford doesn't apply on racecar, as it was only created for cars running in freezing temps.

[boxkita]

That LGT sedan racecar I was looking at is running an Accusump - http://accusump.com/accusump_units.html . If you look in the better built Pro3 cars, you'll see one.

 

Here's another option - http://daileyengineering.com/oil_pumps.htm

[wicknetzel]

Just needs cross bars and skis!

 

I have a set of factory cross bars and ski racks made by Mont Blanc that came with my 05 wagon. Not using them since I had a Thule setup already. If you ate willing to pick up shipping from PA I'll be glad to part with them for a very good deal.

[shralp]

sorry to jack the thread, but YEAH for track cars with cross bars Actually don't run them at the track anymore once it got retired from daily driver....

[boxkita]

For the TC day, all wagons should run full bars with an accessory (bike, skiis, snowboard) mounted. Bonus points for multiple accessories.

[shralp]

I'd run the baby seat too but everything aft of the front seats is ripped out

[Chris GTO TT]

I have a set of factory cross bars and ski racks made by Mont Blanc that came with my 05 wagon. Not using them since I had a Thule setup already. If you ate willing to pick up shipping from PA I'll be glad to part with them for a very good deal.

If Sargent Gator doesn't take em I might

[boxkita]

I'd run the baby seat too but everything aft of the front seats is ripped out

When I first started lapping, I got lots of heckling about the wagon. If I could have found 2 baby seats, I'd have mounted them in the back. With a baby on board sticker, too.

 

I've been meaning to get a "MOMTAXI" for Sgt.Gator's wagon. Tack it on as he's leaving the pits.

[Sgt.Gator]

That LGT sedan racecar I was looking at is running an Accusump - http://accusump.com/accusump_units.html . If you look in the better built Pro3 cars, you'll see one.

 

Here's another option - http://daileyengineering.com/oil_pumps.htm

 

I have an Accusump in a box in the garage I bought from a guy on the Corvette forum, originally to go in my old Integra race car. It needed repairs which I've done. I've never installed it because I read several threads where engines failed allegedly because of Accusump issues. That's the problem with forums!

It also won't fit in the engine compartment, which means mounting in the passenger area next to me. Not sure I want to risk a hot oil line failure in the driver's compartment. Lots of guys do it though.

 

And yes, I have an entire list of dry sump vendors, Dailey being one of them. The issue there is cost. Almost impossible to go dry sump for less than $3K. However every professional race car uses them, for several good reasons. If I ever blow my engine due to oil issues the next engine will go dry sump.

If anyone is really interested in dry sumps I'll post a couple of threads about them.

Call a full dry sump system with all the goodies $3.5K. Seems expensive. But compare to a new KillerB Pan + Windage tray+Pickup + Accusump + hoses and fittings = $1.4K. Now it's not quite so crazy.

 

I think an STI Pan + Moroso Oil Pickup + Cosworth Baffle/Crank Scraper will work fine.

 

If Sargent Gator doesn't take em I might

Go for it Chris. I have a bunch of Yakima stuff in my garage I'll go thru and play around with. Any crossbar is going to cause adverse aero effects on the wing. The wing needs as much clear air as possible between the roof and the wing. There's also an issue with height. I'm limited to 8" above the roof line. The wing itself is 5" from bottom to top, that only leaves 3" from the bottom of the wing to the roof. Any roof rack system will put me too high.

"no part of the wing shall be more than 8.0 inches above the roofline."

 

I may put the OEM side roof rails on just for grins though!

 

When I first started lapping, I got lots of heckling about the wagon. If I could have found 2 baby seats, I'd have mounted them in the back. With a baby on board sticker, too.

 

I've been meaning to get a "MOMTAXI" for Sgt.Gator's wagon. Tack it on as he's leaving the pits.

 

LOL!

 

On the AOS - Catch Can question: I found a long thread on IWSTI. OMG!!!!

150 pages, 6 years, and the conclusion: None!

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-litre-factory-motor/146699-official-sti-engine-venting-o-separators-catch-cans-thread.html

 

I read the first 17 pages, then the last 10. My take:

1) The Crawford AOS is the most widely used. Lots of supporters, and lots of detractors.

2) For stock blocks with moderate HP (no forged internals) an AOS is not needed.

3) The needs of a DD are not the same as a race car! Even Crawford says they unhook the return line from the AOS to the intake on race days when they max up the boost. Race cars are different because they spend so much time at WOT, the normal AOS is not designed for a car running at WOT that much.

4) A Catch Can can fill up in a race, the oil pours into the intake> broken ring land.

 

Right now the new Perrin AOS looks like it might be the answer, but I need to converse with Jeff how it would be setup for a race car vs a street car. I like the way the system routes the lines though. There is a note in the instructions that for race cars it's possible to put a breather filter in place of the return line off the top of the AOS that goes back to the turbo inlet. However that would eliminate any vacuum effect on the crankcase.....

Edited December 31, 2014 by Sgt.Gator

[boxkita]

I've heard the same about accusump and had the same concerns with it being in the cockpit. I notice the cautious people run aeroquip lines & connections to theirs. And the accusump is very securely attached to the car.

 

I put in the AOS because track car & forged internals. At the time, the Crawford was not getting great reviews and the team was having issues (a bigger concern). The STI driver with the Crawford AOS attached the run-off tube to a water bottle. He varied the bottle size to match the race duration.

 

I assume you are talking to Perrin's tech people directly. You might also ring Crawford and describe your problem asking for their suggestions. Good luck with this. I'll be interested to find out what you learn/choose.