Z-Chain fitted - works great!

[tdoggydog]

All you need is a good set of snow tyres, they will get you through anything until its deeper than you have ground clearance.

 

I've gone over this issue many times, but I'll do it again in hopes of getting the point across. Out here in Southern CA, we don't have but 2 seasons, really. So snow tires are not a wise choice, which is why we use chains to get us through the "winter" spots.

[mwiener2]

The engineering dept needs to consult the driving dynamics dept on that one.

 

 

Here's what happened at that meeting:

 

"what happens if we put snow chains on the car?"

"who cares, our cars don't need them"

"good point. But what should we say in the manual?"

"Just cut and paste something from a Honda manual."

"sounds like a plan. Anyone wanna go for a quickie around the ice track?"

[Ari_OutbackWagon]

I thought I should jump in on this one. Here in CA the law says you must carry chains/cables, even if you have 4WD/AWD. The exception is tires with the snowflake.

 

True, you will not need them in a Subie with decent All-Seasons in snow, however it is required, period.

 

A couple of years ago I was headed up to Running Springs and chains were required. I had a Volvo S60 with Summers. After the 8 hour, 15 mile drive, I reached the turn off road to my cabin, I removed the damn cables and ventured through 8" of fresh unplowed snow no problem. CA sucks for their stupid laws sometimes, but there are so many stupid people around who have absolutly no idea how to drive in snow and that's who the law is for.

 

You will have no problem running cables on the front wheels, just keep it under 40 and your center diff should be fine. Use the Subaru approved chains. Think about it, they give you a spare tire that is 3 inches too small, don't you think that would be worse then a 1/4" difference front to rear?

[Kyle86NA]

Yes, and In my '98 legacy manual they ( subaru) tells me to replace the bad tire with a good tire from another side pull the fuse for the AWD, so it is FWD and place the spare on the unequal side ( back )

 

so yes, I would think that the car would notice a difference of the spare in AWD mode, probably the difference between the chains on one side too...

[RobE]

dont listen to weiner, he doesnt know how to drive in the snow either....

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9250

[Beanboy]

Slightly off topic, but is the reason why socal folks heading up to ski why they have such rules? I don't know of any such rule in any NE state, or CO for example.

[mwiener2]

I thought I should jump in on this one. Here in CA the law says you must carry chains/cables, even if you have 4WD/AWD. The exception is tires with the snowflake. ............You will have no problem running cables on the front wheels, just keep it under 40 and your center diff should be fine. Use the Subaru approved chains. Think about it, they give you a spare tire that is 3 inches too small, don't you think that would be worse then a 1/4" difference front to rear?

 

 

 

Exactly, get good snows, forget about chains/cables

 

 

The overall diameter is not the issue with the cables....it's the amount of grip. Power always goes to the tires with the LEAST amount of grip. That would be the rear wheels without cables. Then the AWD system tries to send that power to the tires WITH grip...the fronts. Since this difference in traction is so great and constant, center diff go boom.

 

 

 

 

dont listen to weiner, he doesnt know how to drive in the snow either....

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9250

 

Don't even get me started on those piece of shit RE-92's......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RE-92's kill bunnies

[tdoggydog]

Exactly, get good snows, forget about chains/cables

 

Showing us again how you don't comprehend how us SoCal people don't need snow tires...

[whobaru]

I'm from Cali and made the Tahoe trip countless times, so I actually agree with every post here from every member in the thread. Differing opinions is all.

 

tdoggydog- The punchline here is for you to carry the cables in the event you are legally required to put them on. If you DO have to put them on, obviously they should go on the front and you should cross your fingers (you'll probably be just fine). Stick with your Cali tires for reasons obvious to you and me, and hope you never are forced to use the cables. Furthermore, be glad I am agreeing with you after your performance in other threads.

[whobaru]

Snow Tires+ Subaru= Snowmobile...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUNhn6_1nyo

 

Chains would probably cause more trouble than its worth.

 

I agree with the assessment of front snow chain= 180. Such a dynamic diffrence in traction WILL cause the car to loop under decelleration. The people at subaru must be smoking drugs. The engineering dept needs to consult the driving dynamics dept on that one.

 

Nice post! I enjoyed those vids and got a little nervous for the drivers. I wish I didn't get so nervous when I drift because I freaking love to do it. I've had one bad accident and don't need another.

[tdoggydog]

Furthermore, be glad I am agreeing with you after your performance in other threads.

 

I'm unaware of what you speak of. Oh, just kidding.

[whobaru]

[NSFW]

Slightly off topic, but is the reason why socal folks heading up to ski why they have such rules? I don't know of any such rule in any NE state, or CO for example.

 

WA has similar rules. Usually when conditions get bad they have the same chains-required-unless-AWD policy, but if it gets bad enough they can mandate chains on all vehicles. If no chains, you get sent home.

 

That said, I've been going snowboarding twice a week all season long for almost 15 years, with AWD, and I've never been asked to put on chains.

 

That said, I have a set of cables in the back of my Legacy right now. If it's dumping so hard they're sending AWD cars home for not having chains, then I need to be on the slopes. Not driving home wondering how much powder I've missed out on.

[team23jordan]

or you can just get winter tires and not worry about it

[DukeTrout]

Studded winter tires if you are serious about hitting the mountain reliably all winter long. Especially if you are interested in doing your thing when the snow is best. Forget about "You shoulda been here yesterday! It was epic!"

[DukeTrout]

Snow Tires+ Subaru= Snowmobile...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUNhn6_1nyo

 

Chains would probably cause more trouble than its worth.

 

I agree with the assessment of front snow chain= 180. Such a dynamic diffrence in traction WILL cause the car to loop under decelleration. The people at subaru must be smoking drugs. The engineering dept needs to consult the driving dynamics dept on that one.

 

The studded tire/frozen lake action in that last one is awesome! It makes me want to go get a beater bugeye right now!

[leggtnut]

What 90% of the people her are missing from what tdoggydog was trying to say. Is that there ARE places in this wonderful country that snow tires are just inpracticle. What are you going to though those studded tires in the back so once you get to an area that will allow you to run them you can do an indy style tire change. I think not. Seeing that I moved down here from WA and would have 2 sets of tires/wheels for winter/summer if I still was there. But here, all season is all that I need. And if I need the additional grip, the cables are what to use.

 

There is some vaildity aobut the diff in what they are saying, but as long as you take it easy on the speed and remember, if the cables are required for our AWD, it is going to be quit dam cold out there so that will help a lot with keeping the diff tempratures in check. Just simple Thermodynamics. I am not saying that it won't overheat, but there is more heat transfer than there normally would be becuase of the differantials in temprature.

 

Not sure about the 180 spin thing. I had a 90 Legacy L FWD that I had to put chains on a couple of times to get to crystal mountian and did 3 or 4 emergancy stops and had no spinning action at all.

 

Just my .02 worth.

[tdoggydog]

That said, I have a set of cables in the back of my Legacy right now. If it's dumping so hard they're sending AWD cars home for not having chains, then I need to be on the slopes. Not driving home wondering how much powder I've missed out on.

 

WELL SPOKEN!!!

[NutBucket]

Studded winter tires if you are serious about hitting the mountain reliably all winter long. Especially if you are interested in doing your thing when the snow is best. Forget about "You shoulda been here yesterday! It was epic!"

Too bad they're illegal in Cali.

[tdoggydog]

Thank you, thank you all - to those who understand the CA situation in regards to chains/cables vs. snow tires. Finally!

[nm]

I thought I should jump in on this one. Here in CA the law says you must carry chains/cables, even if you have 4WD/AWD. The exception is tires with the snowflake.

CA law does not distinguish between M+S and mountain snowflake. (Snow tires in the CA law are M+S).

The real purpose of tire chains in CA is to get people to slow the fark down. Low landers don't know how the hell to drive in the stuff.

Tire chains are needed for thos ein ther sierras because sometimes without them CHP won't let you go home.

As for spinning?

Max speed you'd want to go on chains/cables is 30mph, going sideways is not a major worry.

Every modern AWD (not 4wd) car manual I've seen (Subaru, Infiniti, Audi/VW) say to put chains on the fronts only.

Given the short distance and slow speeds, its not damaging anything.

Yes, driving 200 miles at 70 mph on chains would be a really bad idea, 30 mi at 25mph? Not so much.

 

Do note that if you hed up the hill every weekend, some Nokian WRs would be a fantastic investment.

[Ari_OutbackWagon]

CA law does not distinguish between M+S and mountain snowflake. (Snow tires in the CA law are M+S).

The real purpose of tire chains in CA is to get people to slow the fark down. Low landers don't know how the hell to drive in the stuff.

Tire chains are needed for thos ein ther sierras because sometimes without them CHP won't let you go home.

As for spinning?

Max speed you'd want to go on chains/cables is 30mph, going sideways is not a major worry.

Every modern AWD (not 4wd) car manual I've seen (Subaru, Infiniti, Audi/VW) say to put chains on the fronts only.

Given the short distance and slow speeds, its not damaging anything.

Yes, driving 200 miles at 70 mph on chains would be a really bad idea, 30 mi at 25mph? Not so much.

 

Do note that if you hed up the hill every weekend, some Nokian WRs would be a fantastic investment.

 

QTF. You're on The Car Lounge, right? I'm 2000JettaGLXVR6.

[nm]

QTF. You're on The Car Lounge, right? I'm 2000JettaGLXVR6.

Yes

[LittleBlueGT]

Some of you guys that are posting.......Have you ever driven on chains?

 

 

While I agree in theory on any car having more traction on the front then the rear, particularly those cheapskates that put winter tires on the front only of a front wheel-drive car, that you WILL end up in the ditch. Things are different with chains.

 

 

First off you are driving slow enough (usually below 40mph or even less) that spinning is not a problem. Yes I have done this numerous times in a FWD car going skiing. Even FWDs with front only winters only seem to become unstable at 30+ mph. Down right dangerous on the highway (I once drove someones else's car on the highway that had winters on the front only, and the only thing that saved my life was my many years of e-braking experience).

 

If you are driving somewhere that requires chains actually be put on you will be crawling along at likely less then 20 mph. And if you took it easy you will not overheat your center diff.